Author Topic: The 2012 NFL Thread  (Read 284902 times)

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Offline cramx3

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #105 on: May 18, 2012, 04:00:54 PM »
The xfl had no fair catches. I don't recall specifically if they changed any other rules with that but I think it resulted in more injuries.

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #106 on: May 23, 2012, 01:29:43 PM »
This could be a huge deal:

NFLPA Files Lawsuit Alleging Collusion in the League

Quote
The contentious relationship between the NFL and the NFL Players Association continued Wednesday when the union filed a federal lawsuit alleging that the league and its owners conspired in collusion to establish a "secret $123 million salary cap" in 2010, which under the previous labor agreement was designated as an uncapped year of spending.

The NFLPA filed its collusion complaint in U.S. District Court in Minneapolis, claiming that it falls under the supervision and oversight of Judge David Doty, who presided over the 1993 settlement of the Reggie White litigation case.

That settlement led to an unprecedented stretch of labor peace that lasted through 2010, which was designated as an uncapped year in which teams would not be restricted in their spending on players' salaries.

Instead, the NFLPA claims that it learned on or about March 12 of this year that four teams -- the Washington Redskins, Dallas Cowboys, Oakland Raiders and New Orleans Saints -- did not abide by the NFL's secret rules that effectively advised teams to operate in 2010 under a $123 million salary cap.

The NFL in March penalized the Redskins and Cowboys in cap spending at $36 million and $10 million sums, respectively, during the next two years, a decision that was recently upheld by Special Master Stephen Burbank's ruling, citing the NFLPA's agreement to an arrangement that would redistribute the money to other teams for cap spending.

An NFLPA source said that the union was "strong-armed" into the agreement because the cap would have been set at a league-wide $113 million per team, instead of $120 million.

The union is seeking $1 billion in actual damages for players primarily in the 2010 free-agent class and $3 billion in damages as violation of the 1993 White agreement.


"When the rules are broken in a way that hurts the game, we have an obligation to act. We cannot stand by when we now know that the owners conspired to collude," NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith said in a statement.

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello scoffed at the union's lawsuit, saying the league expects it to be dismissed.

"The filing of these claims is prohibited by the Collective Bargaining Agreement and separately by an agreement signed by the players' attorneys last August. The claims have absolutely no merit and we fully expect them to be dismissed," Aiello said.

"On multiple occasions, the players and their representatives specifically dismissed all claims, known or unknown, whether pending or not, regarding alleged violations of the 2006 CBA and the related settlement agreement. We continue to look forward to focusing on the future of the game rather than grievances of a prior era that have already been resolved."

PDF of the NFLPA Complaint

Just from what we know about the NFL penalizing the Cowboys and the Redskins, it seems pretty obvious that the NFLPA allegation is true.

The question is - can it stand up legally?

I hope it does.  The NFL is smart in a business sense in a lot of ways (I appreciate them threatening to shut down the Pro Bowl).  But, I absolutely hate the league's treatment of its players.  In this case, EVERYONE (players and owners) got screwed.  Why should Goodell be able to get away with this?

EDIT:  Because I'm not a lawyer and I'm not sure if I understand this correctly.

The NFL's response is essentially saying 'The NFLPA signed multiple contracts in the past saying they can't file this lawsuit and that the NFL never violated the 2006 CBA.  Therefore, this lawsuit should be thrown out.'

Two things stand out:

 - He never said "we didn't make a secret salary cap."  Which I find rather conspicuous.

 - If the NFLPA's allegations are true, then didn't the NFLPA essentially sign the old agreements under false pretenses?  That seems to be what their complaint is suggesting happened.  Therefore, if the old agreements were signed with improper information, then would they be rendered invalid?  Obviously, anyone remotely ethical would agree.  But, does this idea hold up legally?  Because that's all that really matters.

EDIT 2:  Not trying to say that the NFLPA are necessarily the good guys either.  They're fighting the NFL's decision mandating thigh and knee pads purely to maintain their own power, not to help the players.  And DeMaurice Smith saying the collusion was 'bad for the game' is insulting to people who actually care about Football.  The Salary cap is probably one of the three most important reasons the league is successful and the game is enjoyable to watch.  The collusion was bad for the league, but good for the game.  There's a difference.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 01:58:54 PM by ReaPsTA »
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #107 on: May 23, 2012, 02:53:47 PM »
I think a lot of the grief that Goodell gets is unfounded, but penalizing the Cowboys and Redskins was a stunningly stupid thing to do. 

None of this will really matter, though.  The NFLPA is just using this as another method to extort concessions from the league, and they'll be successful in that regard.  The league will quietly add a bit into the cap, just like it did to get approval for those penalties in the first place, and grant one or two other concessions. 
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #108 on: May 23, 2012, 03:00:51 PM »
I think a lot of the grief that Goodell gets is unfounded, but penalizing the Cowboys and Redskins was a stunningly stupid thing to do. 

He almost had to penalize them though.  Otherwise, the 28 teams that went with the secret agreement would flip out.

Really though, why does anyone ever bother with dishonest business practice?  Zuckerberg is being sued.  The NFL is being sued.  Tobacco companies are viewed as evil.  Music companies are being destroyed by file sharing.  And on and on and on.  It's one thing to be self-interested (see: Wal-Mart), it's another to outright lie.  It always catches up with you.  And the price doesn't seem to be worth what you gain from doing so.

Quote
None of this will really matter, though.  The NFLPA is just using this as another method to extort concessions from the league, and they'll be successful in that regard.  The league will quietly add a bit into the cap, just like it did to get approval for those penalties in the first place, and grant one or two other concessions.

Sounds about right.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #109 on: May 23, 2012, 05:05:47 PM »
A punt being up for grabs by either team would be a terrible rule.  And will never happen, nor should it.  How many times have we seen a fair catch made with three or four players from the kicking team around him?  Imagine all of those players going for the ball at once.

Easily remedied. Revise the illegal formation rules on punting formations so teams are allowed to have fewer men on the line of scrimmage and can then drop a few extra dudes back to help with fielding the punt. Make it a penalty to interfere with the receiving team's returner's ability to field the kick if you were to contact him prior to his fielding of the kick but make it legal for the kicking team to grab the ball before it reaches him if they can do so without contacting him in a way that would draw a flag for interference on a passing play.

It would be horrible and result in tons of injuries.

How is some dudes jumping in a group any more dangerous than them running at full speed to make a tackle and crashing into blockers the way they do on a normal punt anyway?

Plus, why bother going for it on 3rd and long?  Just punt the ball five yards forward up into the air and hope your team recovers the fumble, and presto, it's 1st and 10 again!  Terrible.

And if they don't recover, the other team gets great field position and the team that punted is at a severe disadvantage. Your 5-yard arguement has no logic whatsoever.

LOL at your arguments here having ANY logic.  What you are suggesting will never happen, nor should it ever happen.  End of story.  :biggrin:

Offline black_biff_stadler

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #110 on: May 23, 2012, 05:29:27 PM »
Whatever dude, feel free to make dick comments rather than actually supporting your arguement with insight or facts. It's funny how the :biggrin: emote has become a billboard for you intentionally being smug, passive aggressive, and condescending.

"Never" is a pretty long time too. Glad to see your psychic ability being so acute. Lastly "End of story" is more or less what folks say to childishly self-proclaim victory in a debate where they've contributed nothing.

Feel free to support your statements in a sensible way unless you wanna keep bailing out with excuses and dismissiveness.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #111 on: May 23, 2012, 05:35:23 PM »
Go back to my original post for my insight. 

If you want to be dismissive and call my comments "dick comments," well, that is on you, but I said what I said, and I stand by what I said.  Woah, typing that made me dizzy. :lol

I use emoticons sometimes when I fear that something I said comes across too strongly (as I know I can word things in a strong manner at times), so as not to make something think I am being a jerk or anything.  If you think I am doing it so I can get away with being smug or whatever, that is on you again, as I cannot help how you feel, but that is not my intention.

And I think "PERIOD" is more of a self-proclaiming victory expression than "End of story."  And FAAAAAR more obnoxious.  IMO.

Offline black_biff_stadler

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #112 on: May 23, 2012, 05:49:06 PM »
Yes, I did go back and realized that I addressed each of your rebuttals and not a single word or even letter was omitted when I quoted you so I definitely took everything you said into consideration. Rather than adding to the depth of the debate, you scoffed at me based on one selected tidbit that I very clearly explained why your point was flawed. It really seems like you took offense to me saying your point had no logic whatsoever and now you're just "playing dumb" to troll me.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #113 on: May 23, 2012, 05:55:22 PM »
I suggest both of you take a short break from one another and just let it go.  Not sure why the NFL thread has a habit of getting people fired up, but it does.

Kev, your post came across as straight up baiting and trying to provoke a reaction.  And as b_f pointed out, the emoticon had the effect of making it seem even more sarcastic.  I take your word for it that you did not intend the post that way.  But as an objective third party with no dog in this fight, I'm telling you that that's how it came across. 

But, again, there's no need for an argument between the two of you.  Just let it go before it escalates.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #114 on: May 23, 2012, 07:35:47 PM »
*letting it go*

I am tired and crabby this evening, too, so that might have had something to do with my tone earlier.  My apologies, b_f. :)

Offline black_biff_stadler

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #115 on: May 23, 2012, 08:04:26 PM »
It's all good, Kev. I never was pissed at you but just a little annoyed at having my points dismissed rather than addressed. I'm sure this won't be our last time like this and sure as shit hasn't been our first. We'll be just fine.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #116 on: May 24, 2012, 08:14:10 AM »
 :heart



...
As in I  :heart the giants

Offline bosk1

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Offline El Barto

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #118 on: May 24, 2012, 08:55:45 AM »
Aside from the fact that the NFLPA seems to have waved their rights to sue the league, numerous times, I don't think their allegations have much merit.  Technically what the league did wasn't a salary cap.  They never dictated what the teams could pay to their players.  Their intention was to prevent teams from using that year to rework existing contracts as heavily front-loaded.  I can certainly see why the league would want to prevent such moves from happening, and I don't think it constitutes a cap, or a change in the cap.  It's merely addressing the rules about how cap money can be spent.

Again, I think it's bullshit, but certainly not for the reasons the union suggests.  Looks to me, like I said before, that this is merely a stick-up. 

To be honest, I think I'd like to see continued labor strife crush the NFL.  These people suck.  All of them.  Players, owners, and the league.  I have a great deal of respect and admiration for what Pete Rozelle did back in the sixties, and what the league has become now is really an abomination.  It'd be nice if it could be fixed, but I think this is definitely a genie out of the bottle situation.  It'd be best if all of these greedy bastards just went away. 

It's a real shame those nimrods in the NCAA are more corrupt and pointless than the NFL.  At least those kids want to play.  It's more my idea of what football should be like.  Unfortunately, it's all just fucking aimless and trivial. 
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #119 on: May 28, 2012, 08:48:32 AM »
Props to Jon Beason for having his young QB's back:

https://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7973184/carolina-panthers-jon-beason-slams-san-francisco-49ers-alex-smith-cam-newton-comments

And can someone tell Alex Smith to shut his mouth?  What does he know about winning?  Oh, he went 13-3 last year thanks to a dominant running game and awesome defense, which brought his career record to 32-34.  So, he was 19-31 before last year.  Yep, he sure does know all about winning. :lol

Bottom line: Cam Newton is already a better QB than Alex Smith, so Smith should shut it; he could have made his point without resorting to the Carolina and Cam comments.

Offline black_biff_stadler

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #120 on: May 28, 2012, 02:54:45 PM »
lol Alex Smith.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #121 on: June 28, 2012, 12:23:08 PM »
The NFL Network's Top 100 players, as voted by the players themselves:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Drew Brees
3. Calvin Johnson
4. Tom Brady
5. Darrelle Revis
6. DeMarcus Ware
7. Larry Fitzgerald
8. Adrian Peterson
9. Haloti Ngata
10. Patrick Willis

Full list: https://www.nfl.com/top100/2012#video=09000d5d82a2b013

i am fine with the top 5.  You have the three clear-cut best quarterbacks and two guys who are dominant and clearly the best at their positions.

Offline cramx3

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #122 on: June 28, 2012, 12:35:28 PM »
I like this kind of list, I think the players are the best to give their opinions on their peers, but the fact that table cracks the list at 95... I don't know what to think. Obviously he has talent, I'm just surprised the players think that highly of him.

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #123 on: June 28, 2012, 01:45:20 PM »
I think the combination of Tebow being at 95 and Eli being at 31 is the most credibility-decimating aspect of it all. I was very much an Eli naysayer for his entire career up until this last Super Bowl run but it's hard to put a QB outside the top 20, and in this case outside the top 30 for god's sake, once they have 2 rings and weren't just tagging along for big stretches of those SB seasons as could be argued for Ben Roethlisberger. Eli played like a true QB making numerous quality plays and seems to shine brightest in big moments.

Also, a humongous lol that (as of this post anyway) the combined amount of votes for Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers being overrated (5807) is nearly identical to the number of votes for Tom Brady being underrated (5825). No correlation there whatsoever.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #124 on: June 28, 2012, 01:57:25 PM »
Yeah, I don't like Eli at all, but it's impossible not to give him his due.  I was especially impressed with him in the NFC championship simply because he kept taking BIG hits, but still stood in there and got the job done.
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Offline pogoowner

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #125 on: June 28, 2012, 03:33:14 PM »
Eli was ridiculous this season. His offensive line was absolutely ATROCIOUS, and he was still dominant.

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #126 on: June 28, 2012, 04:07:53 PM »
All 22 footage now available after games.

https://gamerewind.nfl.com/nflgr/secure/packages?ttv=3&ttp=3
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Offline cramx3

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #127 on: June 28, 2012, 05:53:26 PM »
Eli was ridiculous this season. His offensive line was absolutely ATROCIOUS, and he was still dominant.

The running game was also one of the worst if not the worst in the league last year.

Offline wolfandwolfandwolf

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #128 on: June 28, 2012, 09:48:59 PM »
Has all the lawsuit garbage soured the NFL for anyone else?

Offline black_biff_stadler

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #129 on: June 28, 2012, 09:53:26 PM »
Stemming from the bountygate thing or is there other litigation going on as well? If it's just bountygate stuff then I don't know how anyone who isn't a Saints fan could be bothered in the least since their team won't be affected in any way whatsoever. Beyond that this offseason should be a delight, all things considered, since we have a longterm CBA in place and know for a fact that come early August we'll already start having preseason games.
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Offline wolfandwolfandwolf

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #130 on: June 28, 2012, 09:54:46 PM »
I'm talking concussions as well as the bounty stuff.  It's in the headlines all the time.

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #131 on: June 28, 2012, 10:09:26 PM »
I think the combination of Tebow being at 95 and Eli being at 31 is the most credibility-decimating aspect of it all. 

Well, Eli was the 5th highest QB, so that is awfully good.  I don't think he's ever been considered a top 5 NFL QB until now (and even now, many wouldn't call him that), so I'd say that is pretty good.

Tebow making it just shows that players respect and fear him.  If he was as awful as most critics say he is, he never would have sniffed this list.  Not sure Tebow should have made this top 100, but if nothing else, it's funny to see his critics act like they still know it all and like the players know nothing. 

Offline MetalJunkie

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #132 on: June 29, 2012, 12:49:49 AM »
Apparently Tebow's having trouble learning the Jets' offense and is throwing mad picks in OTAs. Also, he's still slated to be punt protector.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #133 on: June 29, 2012, 08:15:38 AM »
The punt protector thing was announced a while back and I think it's a grand idea.  In fact, I'd probably have Tebow competing for the actual punter job.  The only downside is the risk of injury, since the PP is going to have to make some tackles.  Still, what he brings to the table is probably worth the risk (if Rex Ryan has the balls to utilize him, that is).
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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #134 on: July 08, 2012, 03:26:09 AM »
Recently (last year or so) it seems youtube's selection of full NFL games from back in the day has improved a good bit. I just watched Dan Marino's first playoff game against Seattle in 1983 and also saw the '87 opener for Monday Night Football featuring the last two (at the time) Super Bowl winners, the Bears and the Giants complete with the classic Al, Frank, and Dan lineup calling it.

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #135 on: July 08, 2012, 08:09:28 AM »
Hmmm, I'll have to see what classic Broncos games are on there. :hat

Also, you guys hear about Adrian Peterson getting arrested?  Details on what happened are still fuzzy, but I am pretty sure no good ever comes from drinking at a nightclub after midnight, especially if you are a celebrity or star athlete. :lol

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #136 on: July 08, 2012, 10:23:25 AM »
Sounds like he pulled a "Do you know who I am?!  And your not closing this place yet.  I'm here."


Also Kev.  Can't wait to go to the Pats Denver game this year.  With Peyton, the place will be electric!!
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #137 on: July 08, 2012, 12:01:46 PM »
True, but I am not convinced the Broncos will be any better record-wise this year than they were last.  Their schedule is absolutely brutal, and while I think they will be a better team, that doesn't always translate to a better record. 

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #138 on: July 08, 2012, 12:29:20 PM »
Oh no doubt but for just that game and with the history between the Pats and Manning, Gillette always hops with excitement when he's there.

I sure does look like that division could be won again with a 8-8 record.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The 2012 NFL Thread
« Reply #139 on: July 16, 2012, 10:18:23 PM »
In the last few days, Elvis Dumervil, Dez Bryant and Marshawn Lynch have all been arrested on separate occasions.  :lol :lol :lol