Kids Bullying Kids

[gmillerdrake]

I just noticed yet another story about a kid who committed suicide after being bullied by classmates/peers. I was curious as to if 'bullying' these days...is different....more accelerated or mean....than the bullying of the past. And by that I mean, I'm supposing that the majority of us in one way or another was 'bullied' or made fun of growing up. I was a very small kid....until I hit my growth 'spurt' that put me at 5'-6" in 9th grade...I was very short....so I have heard every short joke and variation of them in the book.
  Now, being the father of 3 boys of which 2 are just beginning their schooling careers...I am just curious as to how it seems now that there are so many kids that find themselves considering suicide and in some cases giving in and actually doing it. Is it much worse now days than some of us 'older' folks remember or went through? Is the internet and social media the component that has driven 'bullying' over the top to it's current 'lethal' form?
  Or is it a failure in parenting? Meaning, have parents failed to prepare thier kids for the inevitable teasing/making fun etc. that comes with growing up? Have parents failed to educate the kids who do the bullying on how that can affect thier peers/friends? I think it's horrible that kids are driven to this....I find it frightening because my oldest ( 6 year old) is a very sweet boy, very caring and soft spoken (much like I was at his age) and I dread to think that his compassion and 'sweetness' will be used against him...."predators" or the kids that tend to do the bullying will see that in him and expose it. I am just hoping that through my experience I can prepare and help him along the way.
  But even with that being said....it is scary to think that a host of brutal words on social media or in class...wherever....can drive kids to the point where taking thier lives (something that seems to me they really don't understand) is the only option.
   Thoughts? Ideas? Theories?

[El Barto]

Is the problem really worse today, or are we just hearing about it more? 

[Adami]

It's worse only in the sense that they can get you at home now. With Facebook and all that stuff, bullying no longer has to be in person. It can reach WELL beyond the class room, or school or even outside. In that sense it's worse. However Senior Simpson is correct that we're mostly just hearing about it a lot more. Everything seems worse when you find out about how bad it is.

[7StringedBeast]

I tend to think we hear about everything more now.  Just like when all the earthquakes happen.  If one happens, then the news reports every single other one around the globe.  Then people start saying "END OF DAYS!! This never happened back in the day!"  happens all the time.

So now I think we just hear about everything because info just is so easy to obtain from all over the world.  News spreads like wild fire, and also, news trends.

That being said, I do wonder if suicide is becoming more popular because it is more reported nowadays and gives kids the idea to go through with it, or have it as an option at least.  I wonder 30 years ago, was suicide as popular?  How about 50 years ago?

Also, bullying gets really harsh these days because of the internet.  It is just so much more far reaching than during school these days.

[gmillerdrake]

Is the problem really worse today, or are we just hearing about it more?

That's another thing. Is the 24 hour news cycle just an avenue to hear about EVERY instance of this happening? Is it only magnified due to the coverage...or is it indeed more prevelant? I don't know if kids are any 'meaner' than they have been in the past. I'll put a conspiring pack of 3rd or 4th grade kids with one agreed upon 'target' up against anyone and bet they'd be more vicious in trying to tear that kid down.

[El Barto]

That being said, I do wonder if suicide is becoming more popular because it is more reported nowadays and gives kids the idea to go through with it, or have it as an option at least.  I wonder 30 years ago, was suicide as popular?  How about 50 years ago?

It was every bit as popular 25 years ago, which predates Facebook, twitter and to some extent 24 hour news*.  When I was a freshman in high school, kids were offing themselves all the time.  This became a national story, and while Plano caught the brunt of it, it was a catalyst for plenty of others.  I suspect that part of the issue is imitation.  Nobody wants to be the first, but after a couple of people do it, it's no longer such a big deal.


*CNN existed at that point, but the notion of 24 hour news culture hadn't really kicked off yet. 

[7StringedBeast]

So my guess is not much has changed except for how things are reported. 

[Chino]

I think it is worse today than a few decades ago for many reasons. First off, your life is more public now. You can be made fun of an attacked at any time of the day. Parents are delusional and will never admit that their kid is doing anything wrong. Schools aren't as strick as they used to be because they are afraid of lawsuits from delusional parents. Kids today are raised like pussies and can't take being made fun of. Granted, some stuff is truly terrible, but a lot of bullying today is simple name calling. I got made fun of all the time as a kid. Sure it sucked, but I always just told myself that those who did that were the real losers.

[BlobVanDam]

It's worse only in the sense that they can get you at home now. With Facebook and all that stuff, bullying no longer has to be in person. It can reach WELL beyond the class room, or school or even outside. In that sense it's worse. However Senior Simpson is correct that we're mostly just hearing about it a lot more. Everything seems worse when you find out about how bad it is.

I agree with this. I'd say the same number of people being bullied has remained constant, but it's much harder for these people to avoid now, if the bully wants to take it further than just flushing their head at lunchtime. Being able to go home at the end of the day and relax without fear of being harrassed at home, or just being able to plain hide from a bully makes all the difference to your mental state. But now a bully could keep on you round the clock, which could make a huge difference.
Not that every bully is some tech-savvy cyberstalker finding new ways to taunt you. I'm sure there are still plenty of bullies who are content with just calling you names as you walk past in the hall.

[7StringedBeast]

I think it is worse today than a few decades ago for many reasons. First off, your life is more public now. You can be made fun of an attacked at any time of the day. Parents are delusional and will never admit that their kid is doing anything wrong. Schools aren't as strick as they used to be because they are afraid of lawsuits from delusional parents. Kids today are raised like pussies and can't take being made fun of. Granted, some stuff is truly terrible, but a lot of bullying today is simple name calling. I got made fun of all the time as a kid. Sure it sucked, but I always just told myself that those who did that were the real losers.

I'd say schools are much more strict these days.  If you so much as say I'm going to kill you to someone you are instantly suspended these days.

[ZBomber]

I think it is worse today than a few decades ago for many reasons. First off, your life is more public now. You can be made fun of an attacked at any time of the day. Parents are delusional and will never admit that their kid is doing anything wrong. Schools aren't as strick as they used to be because they are afraid of lawsuits from delusional parents. Kids today are raised like pussies and can't take being made fun of. Granted, some stuff is truly terrible, but a lot of bullying today is simple name calling. I got made fun of all the time as a kid. Sure it sucked, but I always just told myself that those who did that were the real losers.

I'd say schools are much more strict these days.  If you so much as say I'm going to kill you to someone you are instantly suspended these days.

More sensitive? Yes. Strict in terms of discipline? Hell no.

[7StringedBeast]

I think it is worse today than a few decades ago for many reasons. First off, your life is more public now. You can be made fun of an attacked at any time of the day. Parents are delusional and will never admit that their kid is doing anything wrong. Schools aren't as strick as they used to be because they are afraid of lawsuits from delusional parents. Kids today are raised like pussies and can't take being made fun of. Granted, some stuff is truly terrible, but a lot of bullying today is simple name calling. I got made fun of all the time as a kid. Sure it sucked, but I always just told myself that those who did that were the real losers.

I'd say schools are much more strict these days.  If you so much as say I'm going to kill you to someone you are instantly suspended these days.

More sensitive? Yes. Strict in terms of discipline? Hell no.

How so?  I mean yeah schools can't beat kids anymore.  But i'd say kids get suspended for the dumbest shit these days.  Fighting gets you suspended for at least a week or two.  That's definitely more strict than it used to be.  Also, kids used to be able to bring in their hunting rifles to my high school like 20 years ago.  They could bring them in and have them locked up in the office for the day.  That's definitely not happening anymore.

I really do think schools have become more strict.

[Ben_Jamin]

I see it as a parenting issue. Kids, especially pre-teen and teens, need someone to comfort them and listen to them. Someone to give them the lift of self-esteem, to tell them their not alone and life is full of bullies. The parents today are caught up in work that they have no time to sit and talk to their kids about life's lessons, and the dangers of the world. Sadly, it happens all the time.

[7StringedBeast]

I see it as a parenting issue. Kids, especially pre-teen and teens, need someone to comfort them and listen to them. Someone to give them the lift of self-esteem, to tell them their not alone and life is full of bullies. The parents today are caught up in work that they have no time to sit and talk to their kids about life's lessons, and the dangers of the world. Sadly, it happens all the time.

I agree.  I do think parents are getting worse in general.

[gmillerdrake]

I see it as a parenting issue.

This is where I tend to fall on a lot of kid related topics. I think that parents are the ones responsible for educating thier kids on right and wrong and what is acceptable behavior. It is not a stretch for it to be universally accepted that taunting/picking on/ bullying is not 'right'. It shouldn't be encouraged or overlooked by parents but in some cases it is.
  It seems like that more and more some of these parental responsibilities are being thrust upon schools/teachers to instill in childrend rather than parents doing what they should be doing and teaching thier children. I and my wife will not forefit our right as parents in teaching them what 'we' deem morally acceptable in how to treat thier friends/peers/classmates. We don't expect someone else to do our job for us, which I think there is a number of parents out there who expect just that.

[Ben_Jamin]

I see it as a parenting issue.

This is where I tend to fall on a lot of kid related topics. I think that parents are the ones responsible for educating thier kids on right and wrong and what is acceptable behavior. It is not a stretch for it to be universally accepted that taunting/picking on/ bullying is not 'right'. It shouldn't be encouraged or overlooked by parents but in some cases it is.
  It seems like that more and more some of these parental responsibilities are being thrust upon schools/teachers to instill in childrend rather than parents doing what they should be doing and teaching thier children. I and my wife will not forefit our right as parents in teaching them what 'we' deem morally acceptable in how to treat thier friends/peers/classmates. We don't expect someone else to do our job for us, which I think there is a number of parents out there who expect just that.

Exactly, their relying on the school to teach them moral values when it is the parents RESPONSIBILITY. What makes it worse is when you do say something, they say "It's my child, you don't have a right to tell them anything."

[ZBomber]

I think it is worse today than a few decades ago for many reasons. First off, your life is more public now. You can be made fun of an attacked at any time of the day. Parents are delusional and will never admit that their kid is doing anything wrong. Schools aren't as strick as they used to be because they are afraid of lawsuits from delusional parents. Kids today are raised like pussies and can't take being made fun of. Granted, some stuff is truly terrible, but a lot of bullying today is simple name calling. I got made fun of all the time as a kid. Sure it sucked, but I always just told myself that those who did that were the real losers.

I'd say schools are much more strict these days.  If you so much as say I'm going to kill you to someone you are instantly suspended these days.

More sensitive? Yes. Strict in terms of discipline? Hell no.

How so?  I mean yeah schools can't beat kids anymore.  But i'd say kids get suspended for the dumbest shit these days.  Fighting gets you suspended for at least a week or two.  That's definitely more strict than it used to be.  Also, kids used to be able to bring in their hunting rifles to my high school like 20 years ago.  They could bring them in and have them locked up in the office for the day.  That's definitely not happening anymore.

I really do think schools have become more strict.

Kids can show no respect for other students or teachers with little to no discipline, atleast in my town's school district. You couldn't mouth off a teacher 10-20 years ago with no repercussions. Anything short of beating someone up or bringing a weapon to school is pretty much ignored. The principals in my school system don't even do anything, because the parents don't care enough to discipline their kids and the school has no power to set them straight on their own. I'm sure it is a regional thing, but I know in my town they are certainly less strict.

[Ben_Jamin]

I think it is worse today than a few decades ago for many reasons. First off, your life is more public now. You can be made fun of an attacked at any time of the day. Parents are delusional and will never admit that their kid is doing anything wrong. Schools aren't as strick as they used to be because they are afraid of lawsuits from delusional parents. Kids today are raised like pussies and can't take being made fun of. Granted, some stuff is truly terrible, but a lot of bullying today is simple name calling. I got made fun of all the time as a kid. Sure it sucked, but I always just told myself that those who did that were the real losers.

I'd say schools are much more strict these days.  If you so much as say I'm going to kill you to someone you are instantly suspended these days.

More sensitive? Yes. Strict in terms of discipline? Hell no.

How so?  I mean yeah schools can't beat kids anymore.  But i'd say kids get suspended for the dumbest shit these days.  Fighting gets you suspended for at least a week or two.  That's definitely more strict than it used to be.  Also, kids used to be able to bring in their hunting rifles to my high school like 20 years ago.  They could bring them in and have them locked up in the office for the day.  That's definitely not happening anymore.

I really do think schools have become more strict.

Kids can show no respect for other students or teachers with little to no discipline, atleast in my town's school district. You couldn't mouth off a teacher 10-20 years ago with no repercussions. Anything short of beating someone up or bringing a weapon to school is pretty much ignored. The principals in my school system don't even do anything, because the parents don't care enough to discipline their kids and the school has no power to set them straight on their own. I'm sure it is a regional thing, but I know in my town they are certainly less strict.

Thats the sad part about the education system. Theirs no funding for the kids to vent out in some way at school either by joing an art class or some other venture.

[7StringedBeast]

Sounds regional to me.  What was just described doesn't really apply to the school I went to.  Some places are probably just better than others. 

Better parenting at home could thwart a lot of the disciplinary problems in school.  The child's behavior can many times ( I almost want to say all the time) be a direct reflection of the parents.

[j]

Like GMD and Ben, I tend to consider this (kids killing themselves over being bullied) largely a parenting problem.  But there are other components too; some kids just aren't well-equipped mentally to handle various degrees of bullying, and if they don't have parents teaching them to deal with it and keeping their self-esteem from bottoming out, bad things can happen.

And then there are some--fairly isolated, I think--cases where the bullying goes (and is allowed to go) far beyond typical name-calling and lunch-money-stealing to where the kids are doing really horrible stuff to another kid.  Those situations make it hard to say if a good family life can always bring a kid through any bad situation unscathed.

-J

[jingle.boy]

I agree with the point that ZBomber made... teachers and administration can hardly enforce discipline or accountability on kids when their parents don't.

Is the problem really worse today, or are we just hearing about it more? 

This is the second time I've heard you make this as your argument recently.  Isn't the statement itself a paradox?  If we didn't hear about it in the past, how are we to know how prevalent the issue was?  I also think it's a bit of a cop-out to blame it on the media.  Sure, perhaps you're 100% right, but then let's learn from it.  I'm sure 50 years ago, people made a similar argument about smoking and drinking while pregnant (ie, they didn't know any better).  Just because we didn't hear about it in the past doesn't mean we should be ignorant to it now that we know the realities (not saying you're ignorant, just stating generalities). 

Regardless of how much we hear about an issue like this (not so much in the past vs lots now), it's still a problem.

[El Barto]

Well!  I'm not saying that it's not a problem.  I'm asking if it's more of a problem now than it was 30 years ago.  For all we know, the instances of bullying leading to suicide might actually be on a steady decline*.  If you want to argue that any instance is too many and we should do anything we can to prevent it, I can understand that (though I'd disagree), but questioning whether or not something is as great a problem as we're led to believe is a damn fine thing to do, always.


*If I'm not mistaken, the other time you refer to was related to stranger kidnappings.  While hard to pin down exact numbers, it would appear that those are actually less frequent nowadays, and have been trending downwards since the early 80's, though good luck convincing terrified parents and the networks that feed them of that.

[PraXis]

Kids today are soft thanks to the self-esteem and blue-ribbons-for-everyone movements.

[skydivingninja]

Kids today are soft thanks to the self-esteem and blue-ribbons-for-everyone movements.

Because kids weren't committing suicide from depression and bullying before whatever point you consider things went "wrong." :/ When you're a kid, your estimation of your own self-worth is not about whether the school gives you a "blue ribbon," its whether your peers do. 

Its always been a huge problem, we're just hearing about it  more, and more celebrities are standing up about it (George Takei's "it gets better" video, for instance).  Plus, in America, parents seem to have this mentality of "how dare you tell my child how to behave," even in situations that they're not present in (school, for instance), so parents can and have gotten into the schools and eliminated any real possibility of discipline (short of what ZBomber said, threatening someone, an actual fistfight, or bringing something illegal to school gets you suspended). 

[eric42434224]

Kids today are soft thanks to the self-esteem and blue-ribbons-for-everyone movements.

I am certainly not a fan of the "everyone gets a trophy and no one loses" culture, but it affects the childrens attitude on entitlement more than their ability to deal with bullies.

But more importantly, kids should be allowed to be "soft".  They are KIDS, and should be allowed to be kids, and not be cynical and jaded at 13.

I think the dynamics of bullying has changed more than the parenting or school discipline factors.  Being bullied as a kid back in the day was face to face only.  You were "safe" when not around the bully, or in the company of an adult.  You were also safe at home.  Now, the bullying in cyber space can overwhelm a child and can penetrate all aspects of their life.

[skydivingninja]

^^ That too.  I feel like I've seen hundreds of articles where someone took their life because they were being harassed on facebook, publicly, in front of everybody.

[Chino]

I think it is worse today than a few decades ago for many reasons. First off, your life is more public now. You can be made fun of an attacked at any time of the day. Parents are delusional and will never admit that their kid is doing anything wrong. Schools aren't as strick as they used to be because they are afraid of lawsuits from delusional parents. Kids today are raised like pussies and can't take being made fun of. Granted, some stuff is truly terrible, but a lot of bullying today is simple name calling. I got made fun of all the time as a kid. Sure it sucked, but I always just told myself that those who did that were the real losers.

I'd say schools are much more strict these days.  If you so much as say I'm going to kill you to someone you are instantly suspended these days.

More sensitive? Yes. Strict in terms of discipline? Hell no.

How so?  I mean yeah schools can't beat kids anymore.  But i'd say kids get suspended for the dumbest shit these days.  Fighting gets you suspended for at least a week or two.  That's definitely more strict than it used to be.  Also, kids used to be able to bring in their hunting rifles to my high school like 20 years ago.  They could bring them in and have them locked up in the office for the day.  That's definitely not happening anymore.

I really do think schools have become more strict.

Kids can show no respect for other students or teachers with little to no discipline, atleast in my town's school district. You couldn't mouth off a teacher 10-20 years ago with no repercussions. Anything short of beating someone up or bringing a weapon to school is pretty much ignored. The principals in my school system don't even do anything, because the parents don't care enough to discipline their kids and the school has no power to set them straight on their own. I'm sure it is a regional thing, but I know in my town they are certainly less strict.

This. This. This. I remember when I transferred into a public school for the first time at the age of 14. I couldn't believe the shit the students were allowed to say to the teacher. They would raise their voices and undermine them to no end. Sure, the principal would be called, but all they would get was a detention. You could literally say just about anything, other than "I'm going to gut you", and not get in trouble.

The catholic highschool I attended before that had an event occur that convinced me to leave. I was in the front corner of the room, right by the door. I saw the entire event unfold. A guy got thrown into a locker, pinned, and the pinner repeatedly screamed "I'm gonna stab you in your fucking throat". Literally screaming it for everyone on the floor to hear. A teacher tackled him and a second one helped restrain him. The kid had a knife on him, but I'm not sure whether he pulled him out or not. All he got was a 3 day out of school suspension. Just long enough for him to play that Friday night's basketball game as the starting center. That dude should have been expelled with no questions asked, as well as been sent to jail.

[PraXis]

When I was a kid, you took care of things on the playground after school. Whatever the outcome, you'd go home and get a spanking by your parents and bullying was no longer an issue.

[eric42434224]

When I was a kid, you took care of things on the playground after school. Whatever the outcome, you'd go home and get a spanking by your parents and bullying was no longer an issue.

You do understand that your experience may not be typical.....relevant in todays world....or even normal and healthy, right?
I suspect you don't.
Do you expect a 11 year old girl that is being cyber bullied to "take care of things on the playground"? I don't expect my daughter to have to resort to violence to solve anything.
A child may not be physically inclined, or even able, to defend him or herself, much less "take care of things".  It could incite even more physical violence, and result in serious physical and emotional injury.

EDIT:  Just to be fair, are you just saying what your own personal experience was, or are you trying to say that is how things should be handled today as well?

[Ben_Jamin]

^^ That too.  I feel like I've seen hundreds of articles where someone took their life because they were being harassed on facebook, publicly, in front of everybody.

Again, the parent should monitor it, either by asking the kid who they're talking to online or friend them on Facebook. Then they should say "if their bullying, unfriend them or get off" its that simple and one reason I feel cyber bullying is just nonsense.

[eric42434224]

^^ That too.  I feel like I've seen hundreds of articles where someone took their life because they were being harassed on facebook, publicly, in front of everybody.

Again, the parent should monitor it, either by asking the kid who they're talking to online or friend them on Facebook. Then they should say "if their bullying, unfriend them or get off" its that simple and one reason I feel cyber bullying is just nonsense.

It isnt nonsense. obviously.  Telling your bullied kid to not look at facebook isnt going to stop every other kid at his/her school from looking at it, and isnt going to stop the bully from doing it.  The damage is still going to be done, and the kid may be too embarrased to tell the parent in the first place.  Thinking the bullying will just stop by telling your kid to not look at facebook is naive.

[skydivingninja]

They don't have to be friends with the bully in order for the bully to get to them.  The bully could spread nasty rumors and hate speech to everyone they know.  They could send PMs.  Even if FB's privacy settings cyberbullying could still exist. 

[hefdaddy42]

Schools aren't as strick as they used to be

Apparently not.

*sorry, couldn't help myself*

[eric42434224]

Schools aren't as strick as they used to be

Apparently not.

*sorry, couldn't help myself*

 

[TheOutlawXanadu]

When I was a kid, you took care of things on the playground after school. Whatever the outcome, you'd go home and get a spanking by your parents and bullying was no longer an issue.

While I'm sure this kind of thing happens a lot, it's definitely the exception, not the rule.