Author Topic: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat  (Read 2958 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AndyDT

  • Posts: 2229
Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« on: March 28, 2012, 04:38:11 AM »
I watched a Newsnight report on  Germany last night. It talks about the NDP, a group called the "Immortals", the national socialist underground and how many "educated, middle class" people are joining them. They showed "liberated zones" - villages where nationalist exclusively live and said they exist even in the cities. There always seems to be this explosive nationalism repressed under the surface in Germany and it would go off like a bomb if it weren't for the EU.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17514394

Offline the Catfishman

  • Posts: 490
  • Gender: Male
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2012, 04:49:12 AM »
what is your problem with Germany Andy?  your post blows things completely out of proportion (as usual with your posts on Germany)

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2012, 09:32:40 AM »
You need to watch a bit more closely, Andy. I heard the same thing about those "liberated zones", only that it's not in Germany, it's in Eastern Europe. Germany is just about the only country on top of its Neonazi problem, whereas most other countries, under the pretense of Free Speech, give them complete leeway.

Your ignorance is astounding.

rumborak
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline AndyDT

  • Posts: 2229
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2012, 09:55:24 AM »
Quote
Supporters of the far right want a new order in Germany, but while they live under the current system, some are establishing what they call "national liberated zones", dotted across the country.

The most famous example is Jamel, a village in northern Germany which has been largely taken over by the far right.

In the middle of the village is a brightly painted Nazi-style mural in which a traditionally dressed German mother cradles her baby, surrounded by her other children.

Also painted there is a proclamation that Jamel is free, social and national.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2012, 09:58:11 AM »
Population of Jamel: 35.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2012, 10:01:55 AM »
Overall in Germany the NPD has been losing votes, and only in one state have they managed to cling on to a few seats in parliament.

But, who am I talking to. British love Nazis. Keeps them from looking at themselves, I guess.

rumborak
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline AcidLameLTE

  • Nae deal pal
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 11134
  • Gender: Male
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2012, 10:04:57 AM »
As soon as I saw this article on the BBC, I knew Andy was going to post it :lol

Offline Fluffy Lothario

  • Posts: 4778
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2012, 02:03:21 AM »
After a few years in Germany, I was quite surprised Neonazism has survived there at all.

I saw a Neo-nazi march in Cologne. Which is to say, I didn't see anything but a huge crowd of everyday Germans shouting angrily at some point about 25-50m away. The group of demonstrators was so small, that we couldn't even catch a glimpse of them, nor a flag or banner or anything, behind the hundreds of police and barricades protecting them from the thousands, if not tens of thousands, of people there to hurl abuse at them.

I also once travelled to Karlsruhe on the day of a Neo-nazi march. We passed through the section of the city where they would be marching later in the day. This picture is from an overpass. Looking down the street the other way was the same.



Also,




Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2012, 06:26:00 AM »
Overall in Germany the NPD has been losing votes, and only in one state have they managed to cling on to a few seats in parliament.

But, who am I talking to. British love Nazis. Keeps them from looking at themselves, I guess.

rumborak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xnNhzgcWTk
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline snapple

  • Dad-bod Expert
  • Posts: 5144
  • Gender: Male

Offline Odysseus

  • Posts: 245
  • Gender: Male
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2012, 05:12:57 AM »
A few years back everyone was concerned about Jorg Haider being the next Hitler, but that didn't amount to much.  Fortunately he carked it in a road accident.  There are a minority of nutters in every country, but I think there's enough guilt in Germany to squash any potential douchery on that front.

But, who am I talking to. British love Nazis. Keeps them from looking at themselves, I guess.

Don't confuse the people with the tabloid press.   ;)

Offline Progmetty

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 7127
  • Gender: Male
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2012, 11:41:32 PM »
There's a story of this sorts almost regularly either from the dailymail or the independent or BBC or some other British outlet. They seem to like the subject too much.
It frankly got to the point where I'd like to see a far right group take power in Germany and tell England "What's up? I fuckin thought I heard you say something", apparently the German far right speaks in New York accent in my head for that situation :lol
I say far right group cause I've come to find the term neo-nazis as full of shit as most other related terms, a boogeyman concept like many other in world politics today. every time I read on one of these parties or groups, legal or not, Germany or else where; I never find them fully ideologically and behaviorally in line with the original National Socialist movement of the NSDAP. I think it was a set of circumstances that made the original movement the way it was that could hardly be replayed the same way. Dumb inconsistent copycats are all you'll ever get, imo.
Or I could be totally wrong and the stars align the same way and it works out for them in which case it would be too strong to be stopped by bitching about it in the news.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline AndyDT

  • Posts: 2229
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2012, 05:50:37 AM »
There's a story of this sorts almost regularly either from the dailymail or the independent or BBC or some other British outlet. They seem to like the subject too much.
It frankly got to the point where I'd like to see a far right group take power in Germany and tell England "What's up?
What's up? Well maybe the fact that "England" was the only country in the world that stood against Nazism for a long time when you had people all around the world (e.g. in the USA) wringing their hands or whispering to their leaders (e.g. in the USA) that Nazi domination was inevitable. Another example is the Battle of Cable Street.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cable_Street
https://www.battleofcablestreet.org.uk/index.html



Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2012, 06:50:22 AM »
There's a story of this sorts almost regularly either from the dailymail or the independent or BBC or some other British outlet. They seem to like the subject too much.
It frankly got to the point where I'd like to see a far right group take power in Germany and tell England "What's up? I fuckin thought I heard you say something", apparently the German far right speaks in New York accent in my head for that situation :lol
I say far right group cause I've come to find the term neo-nazis as full of shit as most other related terms, a boogeyman concept like many other in world politics today. every time I read on one of these parties or groups, legal or not, Germany or else where; I never find them fully ideologically and behaviorally in line with the original National Socialist movement of the NSDAP. I think it was a set of circumstances that made the original movement the way it was that could hardly be replayed the same way. Dumb inconsistent copycats are all you'll ever get, imo.
Or I could be totally wrong and the stars align the same way and it works out for them in which case it would be too strong to be stopped by bitching about it in the news.

I think the whole point of them being called Neo-Nazis is because they're conservative authoritarian to the point of actually hitting on the fascism to the degree of Nazism, as well as hitting on the racial purity shit. And actually, today's world is just ripe for the development of a fascist state somewhere, although as it's been pointed out I'd doubt it would be in Germany this time.
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline Progmetty

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 7127
  • Gender: Male
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2012, 05:30:21 PM »
There's a story of this sorts almost regularly either from the dailymail or the independent or BBC or some other British outlet. They seem to like the subject too much.
It frankly got to the point where I'd like to see a far right group take power in Germany and tell England "What's up?
What's up? Well maybe the fact that "England" was the only country in the world that stood against Nazism for a long time when you had people all around the world (e.g. in the USA) wringing their hands or whispering to their leaders (e.g. in the USA) that Nazi domination was inevitable.

I think the main reason why England saw a threat in Nazism is that they felt the Germans were gonna wrestle them over their own bread and butter; imperialistic ambitions and territorial conquests. Before anything else; all Nazism presented was a quest to make Germany self sufficient and dignified. From an American anti Nazi film made 1938: "But although under this pressure, Germany has in 5 years come to produce 80% of all the food it needs,
It is evident today that if their state was to ever become a 100% self sustaining in food supplies; it must expand".
So the core idea being "I'm gonna take from others by force, because my stuff is not enough" was at that point and for at least a 100 years before that; a purely British concept, especially when it comes to most successful application compared to other European nations with colonies around the world.
Hitler spoke of having Russia being Germany's version of what India is to England and one of the recurring themes in his speeches were "We don't have the spaces they have to grow". Again the point is that Nazism was trying to achieve what imperialism has been doing for a long time and England just wouldn't let Germany be that entity and that's what I think England's main reason for opposing Germany was then. England could give a fuck about Nazism's mean racial ideologies at that point, albeit for anti-Nazi propaganda when needed.
Bullies don't beat up other bullies to defend the weak, they do it to prevent their own overtaking.
This is not an anti-British rant, I'm trying to say that England wasn't as incredibly righteous as you make it out to be and Germany wasn't evil incarnate, both nations acted for their own benefit.

Another example is the Battle of Cable Street.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cable_Street
https://www.battleofcablestreet.org.uk/index.htm

Not to downplay the Cable St. incident but the U.S had Julius Kuhn where England had Oswald Mosley and he could only come up with one major marching rally of American fascists as oppose to Mosley's relatively regular gatherings and marches, let alone the fact that Mosley successfully formed the New Party/British Union of Fascists which actually got thousands of votes(don't recall how much exactly) in 1937. Kuhn's German American Bund was more like a Hitler fan club :lol
That's not to say the British are not admirable as people for being seemingly immune to fascism, I just dug up this part of a long conversation I had with an insightful British chap on another message board about contrasts between Mosley's and Hitler's upon their peoples, he said :

Quote
Nationalism was still there, it's just that fascism wasn't. You can't have an empire without nationalism. I mean, it is conceivable, but I'm pretty sure it's never happened and never will. There was definitely racism and nationalism at play in British politics, perhaps on a similar level to Germany, Italy and Spain. The difference I think is that there was no historic appetite for radical change that would permit one particularly charismatic person or group of people to become leader with complete authority. All political stripes were, and I think still are, very mistrustful of radical platforms, but there was definitely racism and nationalism at work in the empire, and social mistrust, dislike and hatred of minority groups, including Jews. I'm not trying to go all revisionist and say Britain was just as bad and would have supported the Final Solution or anything, but people in Germany didn't support the Final Solution either. I think as a nation we tend to kid ourselves a bit about how nice we were compared to those nasty Huns.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2012, 10:49:59 PM »
That quote is really good, and exactly how I feel. There was very little difference between the common Englishman or German, only in the particular political current he was caught in.

To also say it a bit acrimoniously: It's easy to stand for the right thing. It's much harder to reject the wrong thing.

rumborak
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline AndyDT

  • Posts: 2229
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2012, 07:23:46 AM »
There's a story of this sorts almost regularly either from the dailymail or the independent or BBC or some other British outlet. They seem to like the subject too much.
It frankly got to the point where I'd like to see a far right group take power in Germany and tell England "What's up?
What's up? Well maybe the fact that "England" was the only country in the world that stood against Nazism for a long time when you had people all around the world (e.g. in the USA) wringing their hands or whispering to their leaders (e.g. in the USA) that Nazi domination was inevitable.

I think the main reason why England saw a threat in Nazism is that they felt the Germans were gonna wrestle them over their own bread and butter; imperialistic ambitions and territorial conquests. Before anything else; all Nazism presented was a quest to make Germany self sufficient and dignified.
All Nazism presented was dignity? Not for other races it didn't. It's really depressing that we have to have a debate on what Nazism was about. I mean anybody can check Wikipedia.
Quote
The seminal ideas of Nazism originated in the German cultural past of the Völkisch (folk) movement and the superstitions of Ariosophy, an occultism that proposed the Germanic peoples as the purest examples of the Aryan race, whose cultures feature runic symbols and the swastika. From among the Ariosophs, only the Thule-Gesellschaft (Thule Society) in Munich, features in the origin of Nazism; they sponsored the DAP

Quote

From an American anti Nazi film made 1938: "But although under this pressure, Germany has in 5 years come to produce 80% of all the food it needs,
It is evident today that if their state was to ever become a 100% self sustaining in food supplies; it must expand".
So the core idea being "I'm gonna take from others by force, because my stuff is not enough" was at that point and for at least a 100 years before that; a purely British concept, especially when it comes to most successful application compared to other European nations with colonies around the world.
Hitler spoke of having Russia being Germany's version of what India is to England and one of the recurring themes in his speeches were "We don't have the spaces they have to grow". Again the point is that Nazism was trying to achieve what imperialism has been doing for a long time
This wasn't the purpose of Nazism. Read about it.
Quote
and England just wouldn't let Germany be that entity and that's what I think England's main reason for opposing Germany was then. England could give a fuck about Nazism's mean racial ideologies at that point, albeit for anti-Nazi propaganda when needed.
At the point we're talking about I understand that England was accepting the most Jewish refugees in the world. And that's the main thing right?

Quote
Bullies don't beat up other bullies to defend the weak, they do it to prevent their own overtaking.
This is not an anti-British rant, I'm trying to say that England wasn't as incredibly righteous as you make it out to be and Germany wasn't evil incarnate, both nations acted for their own benefit.
I was trying to state historical facts.

Quote
Another example is the Battle of Cable Street.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cable_Street
https://www.battleofcablestreet.org.uk/index.htm

Not to downplay the Cable St. incident but the U.S had Julius Kuhn where England had Oswald Mosley and he could only come up with one major marching rally of American fascists as oppose to Mosley's relatively regular gatherings and marches, let alone the fact that Mosley successfully formed the New Party/British Union of Fascists which actually got thousands of votes(don't recall how much exactly) in 1937. Kuhn's German American Bund was more like a Hitler fan club :lol
That's not to say the British are not admirable as people for being seemingly immune to fascism, I just dug up this part of a long conversation I had with an insightful British chap on another message board about contrasts between Mosley's and Hitler's upon their peoples, he said :

Quote
Nationalism was still there, it's just that fascism wasn't. You can't have an empire without nationalism. I mean, it is conceivable, but I'm pretty sure it's never happened and never will. There was definitely racism and nationalism at play in British politics, perhaps on a similar level to Germany, Italy and Spain. The difference I think is that there was no historic appetite for radical change that would permit one particularly charismatic person or group of people to become leader with complete authority. All political stripes were, and I think still are, very mistrustful of radical platforms, but there was definitely racism and nationalism at work in the empire, and social mistrust, dislike and hatred of minority groups, including Jews. I'm not trying to go all revisionist and say Britain was just as bad and would have supported the Final Solution or anything, but people in Germany didn't support the Final Solution either. I think as a nation we tend to kid ourselves a bit about how nice we were compared to those nasty Huns.

There still is racism in England just as there is racism in say Arab countries. There were lots of people in Germany who felt the Jews were getting rich at their expense and too many in number. Try reading about it.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 07:39:07 AM by AndyDT »

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2012, 02:08:54 PM »
Oops, somebody's pride was hurt :lol

rumborak
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Progmetty

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 7127
  • Gender: Male
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2012, 04:38:12 PM »
Andy I read your post a couple of times and I really don't know what to reply to exactly but apparently I just have to go read, which is never a bad idea.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline Odysseus

  • Posts: 245
  • Gender: Male
Re: Germany's new breed of neo-Nazis pose a threat
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2012, 12:13:41 PM »
There's a story of this sorts almost regularly either from the dailymail...

Ah yes... the Daily Mail... the worst aspects of Britain being marketed as the best...