But eric is correct about Martin's reaction to being followed (the details of which are unclear) putting him at least partly at fault if he indeed chose to confront Zimmerman. Can't believe people are trying to argue otherwise.
-J
And I can't believe you're actually interpreting my argument as that.
Don't think it was your post that I was referring to, but regardless, you're somehow reaching the other extreme...
Trayvon guilty of being young, feeling threatened, being black (Adami's post), and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
...the assumption that Martin was innocent of any wrongdoing. Some sources report that he is the one who escalated the situation to violence. If that were the case, would you really deny that he bears any responsibility whatsoever for what transpired afterward, even though Zimmerman had been following him? Whatever went down that night, I wouldn't presume to say that there was "shared and equal responsibility," just that it's almost certain that each party has a degree of responsibility for the situation's tragic outcome.
Yours and GMD's accounts demonstrate two views that seem very sure of the details of the incident, but that differ drastically in content and come to opposite conclusions. That alone says to me that there is simply nowhere near enough information (or perhaps an abundance of suspect information) to be making these judgment calls with any kind of certainty. But understandably, our instinct is to side with the unarmed kid who lost his life, even though it's often not that cut and dry.
Trayvon may have made some bad decisions, but those come after Zimmermans, and so become more justified.
I don't know why this is necessarily true?
I was in plenty of situations when I was a young impulsive teenager where I felt I was in danger, in a bad place at a bad time, and felt "threatened." But if your instinct is to react in those situations by instigating violence, something's wrong.
I'll say this though: I find it pretty damn hard to believe that Martin was able to beat Zimmerman to the degree Zimmerman reported. GMD keeps bringing up that Martin was 6'3" versus Zimmerman's 5'9". Zimmerman outweighed the kid by over
100 fucking pounds. Not that that says anything definitively by itself, but it's tough to imagine a 250-lb man being helpless and unable to throw a lanky 140-lb featherweight (who just took him to the ground by the way) off of him when he's fighting for his life.
Let me put it this way, Zimmerman is more responsible than Trayvon, and while Zimmerman can make a claim of self-defense that isn't absurd, Trayvon has a better claim to self-defense.
If Martin initiated the actual altercation, I don't know that he actually has a better claim to self-defense. But I don't know whether or not that is true. And I don't know shit about the pertinent laws in Florida. I don't know what I'm typing right now. I don't know anything.
Another thing that I don't think has been discussed much in this thread: in spite of my distaste for the inevitable and vacuous automatic assumption of underlying racism which accompanies any crime like this in the U.S. when the victim is black and the perp is not, the Sanford cops' handling of this whole thing seems to be very suspiciously favoring Zimmerman at best, and overtly racist at worst. Particularly disturbing are the witnesses that report the police trying to get them to modify their testimonies to fit Zimmerman's account.
-J