The Friends Appreciation Thread

[Stadler]

I read some additional interviews from the creators after the reunion: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/friends-reunion-cast-reveals-creators-interview-1234959624/
They have the right idea about not returning with a true follow up. Old Friends would just be a bit sad I think and not really capture much of the spirit of the original. Also contains some reflection on things like lack of diversity in the cast which I know is a bit of a thing about Friends in recent years. I think they are right, probably when making the show later you'd be a bit more conscious of it, but I don't think it hurts the show, in fact the similarity of the main cast probably contributes to the feel of the show (in the same way the characters are all almost exactly the same age).

It's a bit of a stupid thing.  Not every show has to scream diversity.  Not every circle of friends has to have a person from every race.  And the people making that silly argument conveniently ignore how groundbreaking the show was for its time when it came to certain issues.  I am pretty sure it was the first sitcom to have an actual lesbian couple on the show as somewhat regulars, an episode was dedicated to the lesbian wedding, there was interracial dating (on two accounts for both Joey and Ross) which was unheard of on a sitcom as well at the time, etc.  The writers found the perfect main cast (the six) and that is why the show is legendary.  End of story. 

As much as I agree with everything you wrote, interracial relationships, while never common, have been part of sitcoms since at least 1975, when Roxie Roker (who was part of an interracial couple in real life) played a black woman married to a white guy on The Jeffersons.  You could even take it back to the '50s and Lucy and Ricky.

Lenny Kravitz' mom and Al Roker's cousin.

[KevShmev]

Ah, but yes they do!   The lesbian woman of color is starting to be as much of a trope, at least in the crime procedural shows, as the Italian mobster or the Middle-eastern Terrorist.  The captain in L&O:Organized Crime, the detective in L&O:SVU, the scientist in Manifest, the agent in FBI... and on non-procedurals, Randall's daughter in This Is Us (who of course is dating a gender-fluid teen).  I'm sure I'm forgetting some from shows I don't watch all that much, but every show DOES have to scream diversity.

Haha, noted. 

[KevShmev]

As much as I agree with everything you wrote, interracial relationships, while never common, have been part of sitcoms since at least 1975, when Roxie Roker (who was part of an interracial couple in real life) played a black woman married to a white guy on The Jeffersons.  You could even take it back to the '50s and Lucy and Ricky.

True, but I remember reading that about Ross and Joey being the first main characters on a sitcom to date a black woman, and that was the notable thing.  Ricky was Cuban, and Tom Willis and Helen were supporting characters, not main ones, and I think that was the distinction. Semantics, I suppose, but I think my point still stands that Friends did a lot of daring things for a sitcom in its time, things that might look tame now, but context matters.

[hefdaddy42]

I think you're right about that distinction, Kev.

[pg1067]

As much as I agree with everything you wrote, interracial relationships, while never common, have been part of sitcoms since at least 1975, when Roxie Roker (who was part of an interracial couple in real life) played a black woman married to a white guy on The Jeffersons.  You could even take it back to the '50s and Lucy and Ricky.

True, but I remember reading that about Ross and Joey being the first main characters on a sitcom to date a black woman, and that was the notable thing.  Ricky was Cuban, and Tom Willis and Helen were supporting characters, not main ones, and I think that was the distinction. Semantics, I suppose, but I think my point still stands that Friends did a lot of daring things for a sitcom in its time, things that might look tame now, but context matters.

Absolutely.

I also wonder if all of the woke folk who bitch about the lack of "representation" in Friends do the same thing with other shows.  The Seinfeld main cast was every bit as white as Friends.  Do people bitch about it in the same way?  Was there any diversity on the Cosby Show (I don't know - I never watched it)?  Etc., etc.  I pay more attention to Friends, but it seems like it is unfairly singled out for this stuff.

[ZirconBlue]

As much as I agree with everything you wrote, interracial relationships, while never common, have been part of sitcoms since at least 1975, when Roxie Roker (who was part of an interracial couple in real life) played a black woman married to a white guy on The Jeffersons.  You could even take it back to the '50s and Lucy and Ricky.

True, but I remember reading that about Ross and Joey being the first main characters on a sitcom to date a black woman, and that was the notable thing.  Ricky was Cuban, and Tom Willis and Helen were supporting characters, not main ones, and I think that was the distinction. Semantics, I suppose, but I think my point still stands that Friends did a lot of daring things for a sitcom in its time, things that might look tame now, but context matters.

Absolutely.

I also wonder if all of the woke folk who bitch about the lack of "representation" in Friends do the same thing with other shows.  The Seinfeld main cast was every bit as white as Friends.  Do people bitch about it in the same way?  Was there any diversity on the Cosby Show (I don't know - I never watched it)?  Etc., etc.  I pay more attention to Friends, but it seems like it is unfairly singled out for this stuff.

Where are all these "woke folk who bitch about the lack of "representation" in Friends"?  I've seen people comment on the lack of diversity (seriously, there should at the very least be a lot more people of color in the backgrounds, given where the show is supposed to be set), but commenting and discussing are not the same thing as "bitching".

[pg1067]

Where are all these "woke folk who bitch about the lack of "representation" in Friends"?  I've seen people comment on the lack of diversity (seriously, there should at the very least be a lot more people of color in the backgrounds, given where the show is supposed to be set), but commenting and discussing are not the same thing as "bitching".

Among other places, Reddit and other such social media.

[ZirconBlue]

Where are all these "woke folk who bitch about the lack of "representation" in Friends"?  I've seen people comment on the lack of diversity (seriously, there should at the very least be a lot more people of color in the backgrounds, given where the show is supposed to be set), but commenting and discussing are not the same thing as "bitching".

Among other places, Reddit and other such social media.

So, like a relative handful of people getting blown out of proportion, then?

[Adami]

Where are all these "woke folk who bitch about the lack of "representation" in Friends"?  I've seen people comment on the lack of diversity (seriously, there should at the very least be a lot more people of color in the backgrounds, given where the show is supposed to be set), but commenting and discussing are not the same thing as "bitching".

Among other places, Reddit and other such social media.

But isn’t that a bit like going to a restaurant and complaining about how awful food is from a dumpster? I mean obviously. It’s from a dumpster. Just don’t eat out of it.

[KevShmev]

Exactly.  I can't speak for Reddit, but Twitter is basically a platform for anyone to piss and moan about the stupidest shit imaginable and get away with it 99.9999999% of the time.

[Stadler]

Where are all these "woke folk who bitch about the lack of "representation" in Friends"?  I've seen people comment on the lack of diversity (seriously, there should at the very least be a lot more people of color in the backgrounds, given where the show is supposed to be set), but commenting and discussing are not the same thing as "bitching".

Among other places, Reddit and other such social media.

But isn’t that a bit like going to a restaurant and complaining about how awful food is from a dumpster? I mean obviously. It’s from a dumpster. Just don’t eat out of it.

If only it was that simple.  The dumpster is isolated, and it's only you making that determination.  I'm not active on Twitter, but I do have "notifications" on (this is according to my daughter; I don't fucking know) and I get a steady feed of tweets each morning.  Lately, the majority of them are "He's got a bruise on the side of his face; likely he is unstable and cannot walk.  The end is near."  Or, "Look at this picture; his hair is far more windswept than usual, a sign he's not taking care of his personal space, which we all know is the one thing he DOES care about."    Every few days there's a rash of "Inside sources indicate that indictments are imminent in New York; Mar-A-Lago must be in a panic; he's unhinged, so no telling what he might do!"     You know full well who "he" is.   But it's not just ME in the dumpster now; it's all the people that desperately need to feed their insecurity, that need to have their world view reinforced that are feeding on this like a spring of fresh water in the desert. 

Now you start to roll out these more subjective, more obscure takes on things and they get a foothold.   With no debate, no counter point, no real analysis, but they take on a life of their own.

[Adami]

Meh. It is that simple.

Delete Twitter. Turn off notifications. Stop reading them. Stop taking them seriously. Pretty easy stuff.

[soupytwist]

If people are desperate to see some diversity on Friends just play with the contrast and brightness on your TV setting every few minutes.

[Cool Chris]

Ha! Most things on TV these days certainly have the brightness turned down.

[Stadler]

Meh. It is that simple.

Delete Twitter. Turn off notifications. Stop reading them. Stop taking them seriously. Pretty easy stuff.

If it was only so easy.  My dad is not on Twitter at all, and it goes the other way. He's got almost NO feel for the tenor or the temperature of the current political debate.  That helps him in some respects - he doesn't have much of the divisiveness and the vitriol that is so omnipresent - but he's also missing much of the dialogue from and about a President that bragged about Twitter being a "direct conduit" to the people, independent of the "lame stream media".

[Adami]

Meh. It is that simple.

Delete Twitter. Turn off notifications. Stop reading them. Stop taking them seriously. Pretty easy stuff.

If it was only so easy.  My dad is not on Twitter at all, and it goes the other way. He's got almost NO feel for the tenor or the temperature of the current political debate.  That helps him in some respects - he doesn't have much of the divisiveness and the vitriol that is so omnipresent - but he's also missing much of the dialogue from and about a President that bragged about Twitter being a "direct conduit" to the people, independent of the "lame stream media".

Meh. It’s that easy.

My post was multiple options. Just let people say/think what they will and leave it be. I have a philosophy of tend to your own garden. I can’t remember where I heard it, but it can be helpful at times. 

[Stadler]

Meh. It is that simple.

Delete Twitter. Turn off notifications. Stop reading them. Stop taking them seriously. Pretty easy stuff.

If it was only so easy.  My dad is not on Twitter at all, and it goes the other way. He's got almost NO feel for the tenor or the temperature of the current political debate.  That helps him in some respects - he doesn't have much of the divisiveness and the vitriol that is so omnipresent - but he's also missing much of the dialogue from and about a President that bragged about Twitter being a "direct conduit" to the people, independent of the "lame stream media".

Meh. It’s that easy.

My post was multiple options. Just let people say/think what they will and leave it be. I have a philosophy of tend to your own garden. I can’t remember where I heard it, but it can be helpful at times. 

I'm old, though.  While I sit in my garden, I still like to yell at the neighbors and make sure those meddling kids stay off my lawn!

[Sebastián Pratesi]

Here's two cool interviews the guys did while promoting the reunion special. Matthew Perry in particular has some funny moments: https://youtu.be/iRvAHMeAQwU & https://youtu.be/QQv1tUgjyfw

[Kotowboy]

RIP James Michael Tyler aka Gunther.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTltSoW5Gw8

[pg1067]

RIP James Michael Tyler aka Gunther.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTltSoW5Gw8

After he wasn't physically present at the reunion in May, it came out that he was very sick, so this isn't a surprise, but still a bummer.

[Chino]

Very sad news. I've been on a Friends kick lately and have had it on as background noise for the last few weeks. Such a great show.

[pg1067]

This isn't directly about Friends, but it's kind of related.

Fans of Friends will remember that Phoebe had a twin sister named Ursula, who appeared in about 10 episodes throughout the run of Friends.  The character of Ursual, however, originated on another NBC show called Mad About You, which starred Paul Reiser and Helen Hunt, and which premiered two years before Friends.  Ursula didn't show up until the second season of Mad About You (about a year before Friends premiered), but Lisa Kudrow showed up in a season 1 episode as a blind date for Paul (Reiser's character) in a flashback episode.  Interestingly, in Ursula's first Mad About You, she has two jobs:  waitress and tour guide at the Museum of Natural History, which is where Ross worked on Friends (although the connection was never made on either show).

Anyway, having been reminded about all of the above, I started re-watching Mad About You.  Not a bad show, and worth watching if you're a fan of Friends.  Warning:  it's VERY heavy on Jewish stereotypes and (at least the first season) VERY '90s looking.  Also, Helen Hunt in her late 20s/early 30s, though was really hot.

[jingle.boy]

I LOVED Mad About You.  8pm on Must See Thursdays,

Man, for a decade, NBC had 4 killer sitcoms lined up from 8-10.

Cosby/Family Ties/Cheers/Night Court (succeeded with Wings)
Mad About You/Friends/Seinfeld/Frasier
Friends/who cares/Seinfeld/didn't matter - when you have the 2 biggest sitcoms of all time, you can put a rotating case in and out of the other two time slots, and it doesn't matter.

[pg1067]

I can't remember when I started watching Mad About You.  I know I watched it with my wife, so I'm guessing it was sometime after February 1994, which was about halfway through the second season.  That probably explains why all of the season 1 episodes I've seen over the past couple weeks don't seem familiar.  There was one with Jerry Lewis as a guest star that was a little like 22 minutes of someone scratching  a chalkboard with fingernails.

[Adami]

Thanks to this thread I just watched the pilot to Mad About You. Not Great but charming and has potential. Will keep watching for now.

[ZirconBlue]

My wife and I got into Mad About You when we were first dating.  We recently did a full rewatch, and added the new continuation season on Amazon Prime.  I really like the style of humor, and just enjoy hearing the characters talking a lot of the time.

[Cool Chris]

I remember Mad About You being the show your girlfriend made you watch with her.

https://youtu.be/vzLmm0wa0Hs?t=195

Cosby/Family Ties/Cheers/Night Court (succeeded with Wings)

I grew to enjoy Night Court more than Cheers. The irreverence greatly appealed to me. Wings was a favorite show in my freshman dorm. Reruns were on USA network 6 times a day it seemed. I rarely watched the 8:30/9:30p shows in the Friends/Seinfeld era. 

[jingle.boy]

I remember Mad About You being the show your girlfriend made you watch with her.

https://youtu.be/vzLmm0wa0Hs?t=195

Cosby/Family Ties/Cheers/Night Court (succeeded with Wings)

I grew to enjoy Night Court more than Cheers. The irreverence greatly appealed to me. Wings was a favorite show in my freshman dorm. Reruns were on USA network 6 times a day it seemed. I rarely watched the 8:30/9:30p shows in the Friends/Seinfeld era.

Nor did most of the country.   

[Stadler]

Cheers, for me, slays any of the sitcoms mentioned in these last few posts.  Only Seinfeld comes close.  Friends has it's moments, but as much as I loved Chandler and Phoebe (I think Lisa Kudrow was by far the prettiest Friend) I hated Ross and Rachel.  Wings was dumb; I liked the two brothers (the actors) but the girl was annoying and the token Jim Ignatowski character (Thomas Hayden Church) was very annoying.  I thought Helen Hunt WAS hot, but the show was itself annoying to me; this is going to sound WAYYYYYYY more anti-Semitic than I mean it, but I never thought the Jewish stereotypes - on any show - were either funny or cute or endearing (I don't like religious stereotypes of ANY kind, frankly).  Night Court had Harry Anderson and Selma Diamond, but I thought the side-characters, especially Bull, were silly.  They also jumped the shark early and fell victim to the "Big Bang Syndrome" quickly; what started as quirky iconoclastic "individuals" turned into cuddly lovable "family" too quickly.

[pg1067]

Thanks to this thread I just watched the pilot to Mad About You. Not Great but charming and has potential. Will keep watching for now.

I just started season 2 yesterday and just made it to the first episode with Lisa Kudrow as Ursula.  It's interesting to see how similar Ursula is to Phoebe in s1 of Friends and rather different from the way she played Ursula on Friends.

Cosby/Family Ties/Cheers/Night Court (succeeded with Wings)

I grew to enjoy Night Court more than Cheers. The irreverence greatly appealed to me. Wings was a favorite show in my freshman dorm. Reruns were on USA network 6 times a day it seemed. I rarely watched the 8:30/9:30p shows in the Friends/Seinfeld era. 

Night Court was awesome.  Cheers started before I was old enough to appreciate it, and I never got into it.  I tried to watch it a while back and got distracted late in the first season or early in the second season and haven't gone back.  Cosby never appealed to me.  Same with Seinfeld, although it had several high points.

Just saw that they're making a "sequel series" to Night Court.  John Larroquette is going to reprise his role from the original show, and the judge will be Harry's daughter, Abby Stone (played by Melissa Rauch from The Big Bang Theory.  Kinda hard to imagine how this could live up to the original, but we'll see.

[pg1067]

I rarely watched the 8:30/9:30p shows in the Friends/Seinfeld era.

Nor did most of the country.   

Well...that's not quite true.  For its first season, Friends aired in every Thursday evening slot except 9:00, which was occupied by Seinfeld for the entirety of the time the two shows aired together.  Caroline in the City did pretty well, but that's probably only because it was sandwiched between Seinfeld and E.R.  Brooke Shields got Suddenly Susan on the strength of her Friends guest starring role and did pretty well.  Third Rock from the Sun started out in the 9:30 slot.  Tea Leoni's show, The Naked Truth, was he #4 show during the '96-'97 season (tied with s3 of Friends).  Again, though, that's probably a result of being the bridge between Seinfeld and E.R.  That was really the function of that 9:30 slot (and, to a lesser extent, the 8:30 slot).  The slot got HUGE ratings regardless of what the show was, and then NBC would move the show to see if it could fly on its own.  Probably the most successful show from the 8:30 and 9:30 slots was Will & Grace, which premiered the season after Seinfeld ended and eventually took over the 9:00 time slot (which was occupied by Frasier for a year after Seinfeld ended).  Just Shoot Me was another.  One that I thought was really good but didn't catch on was Stark Raving Mad, with Tony Shaloub and Neil Patrick Harris (also never crossed over with Seinfeld).

In Friends' last season ('03-'04), they even stuck an American version of the awful British Friends ripoff, Coupling, in the 9:30 slot (and yes, I know that characterization is going to trigger a couple folks).  Even with the bridge slot between Will & Grace and E.R., it only lasted four episodes.

[T-ski]

Cheers, for me, slays any of the sitcoms mentioned in these last few posts.  Only Seinfeld comes close.  Friends has it's moments, but as much as I loved Chandler and Phoebe (I think Lisa Kudrow was by far the prettiest Friend) I hated Ross and Rachel.  Wings was dumb; I liked the two brothers (the actors) but the girl was annoying and the token Jim Ignatowski character (Thomas Hayden Church) was very annoying.  I thought Helen Hunt WAS hot, but the show was itself annoying to me; this is going to sound WAYYYYYYY more anti-Semitic than I mean it, but I never thought the Jewish stereotypes - on any show - were either funny or cute or endearing (I don't like religious stereotypes of ANY kind, frankly).  Night Court had Harry Anderson and Selma Diamond, but I thought the side-characters, especially Bull, were silly.  They also jumped the shark early and fell victim to the "Big Bang Syndrome" quickly; what started as quirky iconoclastic "individuals" turned into cuddly lovable "family" too quickly.

I loved Wings, and it nothing to do with the fact the Brian character frequently wore a tie with the state of Wisconsin on it.

[Cool Chris]

For its first season, Friends aired in every Thursday evening slot except 9:00, which was occupied by Seinfeld for the entirety of the time the two shows aired together.  Caroline in the City did pretty well, but that's probably only because it was sandwiched between Seinfeld and E.R.  Brooke Shields got Suddenly Susan on the strength of her Friends guest starring role and did pretty well.  Third Rock from the Sun started out in the 9:30 slot.  Tea Leoni's show, The Naked Truth, was he #4 show during the '96-'97 season (tied with s3 of Friends).  Again, though, that's probably a result of being the bridge between Seinfeld and E.R.  That was really the function of that 9:30 slot (and, to a lesser extent, the 8:30 slot).  The slot got HUGE ratings regardless of what the show was, and then NBC would move the show to see if it could fly on its own.  Probably the most successful show from the 8:30 and 9:30 slots was Will & Grace, which premiered the season after Seinfeld ended and eventually took over the 9:00 time slot (which was occupied by Frasier for a year after Seinfeld ended).  Just Shoot Me was another.  One that I thought was really good but didn't catch on was Stark Raving Mad, with Tony Shaloub and Neil Patrick Harris (also never crossed over with Seinfeld).

Great summary. And a good thing you included ER, since that was the bookend that kept people on NBC till 11p. Without that, the 9:30p slot wouldn't have meant a thing.

I didn't watch any of those shows, except for some of Just Shoot Me. I remember liking Stark Raving Mad but never committed to it, which apparently so few people did.

I don't know why I never liked Frasier. I liked Cheers, liked the character, it was smart and witty which is usually right up my alley, and it was set in Seattle. I just never found it laugh out loud funny, and the whimsy I could appreciate wasn't enough to hold my interest.

Night Court had Harry Anderson and Selma Diamond, but I thought the side-characters, especially Bull, were silly.  They also jumped the shark early and fell victim to the "Big Bang Syndrome" quickly; what started as quirky iconoclastic "individuals" turned into cuddly lovable "family" too quickly.

I didn't think Night Court went that route - though I never watched ig Bang Theory so maybe I am missing your point. It evolved over time, but still held true to what it was. I always said Dan Fielding was one of my top 3 TV characters of all time. That list might have changed over the years, but he is still up there.

[KevShmev]

It was almost my least favorite of the NBC Thursday Must See TV from 7-9 on Thursday nights (after Cheers, Cosby Show and Family Ties), but Night Court was usually pretty funny.  I haven't seen it in forever, but it wouldn't surprise me if that was a show that hasn't aged well.  Just a hunch. 

[Cool Chris]

I loved Night Court, and would probably agree, though I haven't seen it in ages. either. I've watched some Wings lately and while the nostalgia was strong, it felt pretty stale. But it was the first couple seasons, before it really hit its stride (imo).