Why Is America So Isolated?

[kirksnosehair]

Military might is a Cold War measurement. All the Patriot missiles didn't help against 9/11.

rumborak

The little guys can't really militarily beat us. The big guys have to face the nukes.

What is China going to do? Ask us to pay them back?


We run this town.

This attitude is the reason the US gets so much flack. Just because we have weapons doesn't mean we can do whatever the fuck we want.

Yeah, I would just like to say to my friends from other countries, thankfully not everyone who lives here in the US thinks like this. 

[Scheavo]

Or maybe we could legalize and heavily regulate marijuana production and consumption (a legal smoking age like tobacco and drinking, sell it only at pharmacies and require a bunch of paperwork for them to sell it, get the FDA in there, etc.), and therefore eliminate the cartel gangs' main source of business.

As much as I detest the idea of legalizing drugs, I'd ultimately have to be in favor with this. The only foreseeable problem is that the cartels, after marijuana is hypothetically legalized in the US and still hungry for power, will either simply concentrate on selling other non-legal drugs to Gringoes (meth, coke, etc), sell marijuana at an even cheaper rate than legal marijuana (or try to sell it to minors), or turn to more gruesome methods of making money (more ransom kidnappings, blackmail, etc).

Which is why you just decriminalize possession of harder drugs. It works better, Portugal shows us that. Then, no more cartels.

[Vivace]

History has shown that ANY empire can and will fall. Rome had arguably the best military in the world and they fell (not quickly mind you) by simply being a little too xenophobic and ignorant with the Goths. Assimilation isn't really the name of the game either since again the Romans were quite adept at the assimilation game and still failed to keep their empire strong. We have it a bit lucky over here. We have only two nations that border us and neither are really the war monger-type. Our fall will most certainly come through an economical failure or perhaps another civil war will do us in, or perhaps a fringe group will find a way to blow up a few nukes. Either way, an invading force seems a bit out of the question so I agree, all our puffed up pride about our guns and military might only works internally with an invading force. No military in the world is going to be able to fight against economical failure  and a civil war will split the military. 

[rumborak]

Our fall will most certainly come through an economical failure or perhaps another civil war will do us in

The latter actually seems the most likely to me, looking at where the country is heading politically right now. It seems there's open war of the cultures going on, liberals against conservatives, Christians against others, poor against rich.

rumborak

[Super Dude]

History has shown that ANY empire can and will fall. Rome had arguably the best military in the world and they fell (not quickly mind you) by simply being a little too xenophobic and ignorant with the Goths. Assimilation isn't really the name of the game either since again the Romans were quite adept at the assimilation game and still failed to keep their empire strong. We have it a bit lucky over here. We have only two nations that border us and neither are really the war monger-type. Our fall will most certainly come through an economical failure or perhaps another civil war will do us in, or perhaps a fringe group will find a way to blow up a few nukes. Either way, an invading force seems a bit out of the question so I agree, all our puffed up pride about our guns and military might only works internally with an invading force. No military in the world is going to be able to fight against economical failure  and a civil war will split the military.

The truth of that story is actually much more complex - both the East and West, after all, did have a fair number of Germanic generals who were upgraded to Augustus (emperor on a level above Caesar), and that's a trend that went on for like three centuries until the fall of the Empire. They also had hospitalitas, the settlement of Germanic nomads and use of them in pretty high command in the military (at least half of the infantry by the 4th cent. was Germanic). That's not too xenophobic, as far as I'm concerned.

[Scheavo]

Our fall will most certainly come through an economical failure or perhaps another civil war will do us in

The latter actually seems the most likely to me, looking at where the country is heading politically right now. It seems there's open war of the cultures going on, liberals against conservatives, Christians against others, poor against rich.

rumborak

But, will there be Buchanan or a Lincoln in the White House? I don't get war, so of course it seems ridiculous to me that actual civil war would break out, but a more or less peaceful dissociation is theoretically possible.

[Omega]

Which is why you just decriminalize possession of harder drugs. It works better, Portugal shows us that. Then, no more cartels.

I sincerely doubt that's ever going to happen in the US.

[Scheavo]

Which is why you just decriminalize possession of harder drugs. It works better, Portugal shows us that. Then, no more cartels.

I sincerely doubt that's ever going to happen in the US.

Maybe not, doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do.

https://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-march-28-2012/ahmed-rashid

Basically, our War on Drugs helps create the problem that exists in Afghanistan and Pakistan (ignoring the huge problem in Mexico), and is a huge reason why we aren't leave Afghanistan. Imagine if Americans could just legally buy Afghani opium and marijuana/hash? It would be better for the individual Afghan farmers, it would mean they don't have to deal with criminals, aka the Taliban, to sell their produce, and make a living, while at the same time having their interests align more with our own (without actually changing how we individually behave). Of course, this would require more than just the US acting, but if the US decriminalized such drugs, it would be a huge step, and many countries enforce strict drug laws becuase of US pressure.

Oh, and there's tons more to the region than simply this, I don't want to try and imply that this would instantly solve everything in the region, but it would definitely help.

[Omega]

While I'm not totally opposed to it, I'm not exactly willing to trust Americans with that type of drug legalization framework.

[Scheavo]

While I'm not totally opposed to it, I'm not exactly willing to trust Americans with that type of drug legalization framework.

Why? Afraid they'll go out and get drugs? Trust me, if they want to now, they already do. And if they need help, they'll be less likely to do it, and usually only after committing a crime. Also, decriminalization is not the same as legalization.

[Omega]

Call me paranoid, distrusting of humankind, perhaps even backward, hopelessly traditional, etc, but the idea of making hard drugs even more accessible to the general public makes me very, very uneasy. 

[the Catfishman]

Legalizing weed here (the Netherlands) resulted in less users, percentage wise there are a lot more users in the US (13.7%) than in the Netherlands (5.4%, the numbers are based on the amount of regular users between 15-65).

[PraXis]

Legalization of any substances would be better than the pointless incarceration. It'd be cheaper to treat the resulting abuse. But no, these substances will remain illegal. The shadow government needs its funding, after all.

[Super Dude]

Actually, the "shadow government" as you call it loses money on the War on Drugs.

[snapple]

I was actually being kind of sarcastic with the nuke talk. I mean, we do militarily run the planet, but I know that the world is not run like that.

[senecadawg2]

We are the best, and it's best that we don't associate with 'those people'.

[King Postwhore]

You know.  Maybe it's that on TV we see the alerts about not going to certain countries and that may scare people from traveling to certain countries.  Forgive my ignorance but do other countries get warnings like this or are we just a little scared?


Myself.  I've wanted to go to Ireland for a long time but with owning a house we don't get to do the "Big traveling"

[rumborak]

Nah, the travel alerts exist everywhere.

One problem is of course that the average American worker has almost zero off time.

rumborak

[Scheavo]

Nah, the travel alerts exist everywhere.

One problem is of course that the average American worker has almost zero off time.

rumborak

Or money.

[King Postwhore]

Nah, the travel alerts exist everywhere.

One problem is of course that the average American worker has almost zero off time.

rumborak

That is very true.  I've lost a lot of vacation time with this new job and Scheavo may be right in that, growing up, my brother and I shared the same bedroom, we didn't vacation early on but when my parents became well off then we traveled.  My parents were fiscally sound.  Some of my friends live in houses where every kid has their own bed room and there's like 4 bathrooms, big gas guzzling trucks, ect.  People overspend in America nowadays.

[Jirpo]

I think a bit of it is (and this is a huge generalization) a lot of Americans seem to be uneducated about the rest of the world. Many American citizens don't know a lot about the world economy or politics - some wouldn't even know the name of leaders of important countries such as the UK or China. And obviously this isn't the case just in the US - there are people like this in every country. But it just seems in the US that people often have strong views on these subjects which they actually know nothing about. An example of this is the imperial measurement system - anyone with a brain can see that feet, pounds, farenheit etc. is simply retarded and makes everything a lot harder for the rest of the world when comparing to American units. But the general population is too convinced that their way is right and so it won't be changed.

[Scheavo]

I think a bit of it is (and this is a huge generalization) a lot of Americans seem to be uneducated about the rest of the world. Many American citizens don't know a lot about the world economy or politics - some wouldn't even know the name of leaders of important countries such as the UK or China. And obviously this isn't the case just in the US - there are people like this in every country. But it just seems in the US that people often have strong views on these subjects which they actually know nothing about. An example of this is the imperial measurement system - anyone with a brain can see that feet, pounds, farenheit etc. is simply retarded and makes everything a lot harder for the rest of the world when comparing to American units. But the general population is too convinced that their way is right and so it won't be changed.

Most people don't need to measurements to do math, though, so the reason American's want to stick with pounds, etc, is becuase thats what they grew up with, and that's what they know. When I read something that says its 143cm, or something, I can translate that into inches/feet, but it's only after I translate that I can relate with the measurement being given.

I'm sure if most people actually needed to do physics based upon the math, they'd start to dislike the imperial system quite a bit (just go as an American physicist).

[Dr. DTVT]

Don't Americans work more than people in other countries?  2 week vacation is normal here (usually split up), but I thought I remember reading that many European countries the average person gets 6 weeks of vacation a year.  Feel free to correct if I'm wrong.

So along with time, I think another reason Americans don't travel is because we don't have a lot of neighbors.  Canada isn't exactly an exotic locale, so that leaves Mexico and the Caribean - or as the media would refer to them a drug lord haven and where pretty white girls go to get murdered.  The last part is a joke.

[kári]

What about travelling inside of the US? Is that not travelling?

[lordxizor]

What about travelling inside of the US? Is that not travelling?

I think that's part of it too. The US is so large and diverse, that you could go on a vacation every year to a different place and never leave the country. I've always used this as the main reason I don't vacation abroad. There are dozens of places in the US I'd like to see and I can go to them for less than half the cost of a trip abroad. I would imagine that many have the same opinion as me. And most Americans can't really afford a trip abroad.

Of course that doesn't explain why we aren't well educated on other cultures.

[Dr. DTVT]

What about travelling inside of the US? Is that not travelling?

That's usually what people resort to.  That's why I like travelling for concerts, kill two birds with one stone.

[Scheavo]

What about travelling inside of the US? Is that not travelling?

It's still travelling, and you do get exposed to some different regions, people, and minor cultural differences - but pretty much anywhere you go in the US is going to be extremely familiar. You'll have a lot of the same grocery stores, a lot of the same restaurants, a lot of the same stores, pretty much the same TV, pretty much the same news, the same language, etc. It can't compare at all to Europe, where the equivalent of going from state to state is going from one country another.

[kári]

That's true. I guess actually being in a different country, not understanding the locals, the TV, and everything is a big part of realizing that your country is far from the only one.

[slycordinator]

absolute war against the drug cartels and begin to rebuild the infrastructure.

Those cartels exist because of the war on drugs. Increasing the war is therefore not the solution.

[robwebster]

What about travelling inside of the US? Is that not travelling?

I think that's part of it too. The US is so large and diverse, that you could go on a vacation every year to a different place and never leave the country. I've always used this as the main reason I don't vacation abroad. There are dozens of places in the US I'd like to see and I can go to them for less than half the cost of a trip abroad. I would imagine that many have the same opinion as me. And most Americans can't really afford a trip abroad.

Of course that doesn't explain why we aren't well educated on other cultures.

I think it's also important to point out that the US is massive. So, so massive. It spans more time zones than the whole of Europe, probably, I'm guessing. (And I mean geographically, as opposed to culturally, where most of Europe's mutually decided they want to be an hour ahead of GMT regardless of where they are in the atlas.)

I live on a big wet tea-slathered rock just north of France, so I only have to move my head eight degrees and everyone's speaking prussian. I've travelled to Spain twice, and Italy once, which isn't a staggering list, but in the UK it makes me "travelled." Check the distance on Google Maps, though, and England to Spain is 1,155 miles by car. And it'd be far less as the crow flies. That's about what, one time zone? Poxy. You could drive 1,155 miles and never leave Alaska in the US.

The drive from my hometown to Venice, meanwhile, would've been 1,017 miles had I not planed it. That's fifty miles shorter than Mount St. Helens to Las Vegas. In the UK, that trip makes me cultured, 'cos I go through border control and own a passport. If I made the same trip in the US, I'd be a luddite.

So frankly, I'd argue the main reason America's considered so isolated is because you're being held to much higher standards. There's every chance that you, the American reader, having never left your country, have possibly seen more geographical diversity than I will in my lifetime. So do feel free to tell any smug Brits who tell you your country's thick that they can fuck off. From me. Personally.

[Implode]

That's not something you hear often. Great post, Rob. Made me feel all tingly inside.

But the geographical diversity you bring up is fascinating. I can't say that culturally I've been out of the country. But I have seen the teal waters and white beaches of the Keys, the swamps of Florida, the white capped mountains of the Rockies, the deserts near Las Vegas, and many things in between.

I hadn't really thought about that before.

[slycordinator]

I've lived in Wisconsin, Iowa, North Carolina, Minnesota, Washington State, and Texas. All of them are different from each other culturally. Sure, there are a lot of similarities but there are definite differences.

[MasterShakezula]

I think one thing that ends up causing US-ers to not be too inclined to travel outside of the country, aside from the obvious issues of expenses of traveling in general, is that to many Americans, the idea of being in a land where the primary language isn't English is rather daunting.  Not many Americans seem to be fluent in other languages, so they are discouraged from going to other countries, which means they have little experience in non-English speaking places, which makes the idea of going to such places seem unappealing and discouraging.  And it ends up being a sort of cycle that feeds into itself. 

I bet more Americans would travel outside of the country if learning foreign languages was mandated in schools from elementary onwards, much like is done in Europe, from what I've heard. 

[Super Dude]

It's necessary in pretty much every country in the world, actually. I know that most if not all developed countries mandate English as a second language, for obvious reasons.

[Scheavo]

I bet more Americans would travel outside of the country if learning foreign languages was mandated in schools from elementary onwards, much like is done in Europe, from what I've heard.

I agree with this, but it's not like we have to learn their language anymore. Ya, it's dickish, but that language all those Europeans are learning is English. My french teacher in high school said when she'd go to France, it'd be impossible to get anyone to speak French. They know you're American, and they just respond in English.