Author Topic: Why Is America So Isolated?  (Read 15820 times)

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Offline Implode

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Why Is America So Isolated?
« on: March 27, 2012, 12:21:41 PM »
Yesterday I was thinking about how unworldly the average American is compared to other countries' citizens. We've gotten so bad that the image of the fat, ignorant, and unintelligent person is the stereotype for the residents of the US.

My question is this. How did we get to be like this? I guess you could say it was meant to be like this all along. That's why escaped to North America in the first place, right? So there's also the geographical part of it. People who live in Europe don't have to travel nearly as far to get to a new country. Some countries over there are smaller than states! Finally, how much do you think is political? People in PR are always mentioning how distorted US politics are in regards to left versus right. Is this intentional of the politicians? Or are they as blissfully unaware to the rest of the world as the average American?

Offline El Barto

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 12:47:33 PM »
I chalk a lot of it up to arrogance.  It would seem that we've been chanting the "greatest nation on Earth" mantra for so long that it's become engrained. 

Something else to consider is that when it comes to exploring new places, America has plenty of them to offer.  Hell, New York might as well be Kazakhstan compared to Texas.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 12:53:04 PM »
There's also the effect that the US was a Super Power all the way through the 20th century. That builds up a certain amount of self-assurance, i.e. "why look at others, when clearly we are the best?".

It is interesting currently to see (especially the conservative) population struggling with the introspection and self-doubt that almost every other country takes for granted.
The UK is btw pretty similar, only 50 years ahead with that process.

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Offline Implode

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2012, 01:09:17 PM »
Does that mean that the US will be a better place in 50 years?

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2012, 01:13:01 PM »
It is many, many things. The geography helps, to be sure, as does the arrogance and self-assurance that comes with being a global hegemon. On top of that is the political pedagogy and demagoguery in this country that strongly encourages and even insists on us being the best and looking inward, a rhetoric that says we absolutely should not care about anything or anyone else (Jacksonian foreign policy, it's called). It also has to do with 19th century containment policy of the UK, which allowed us to focus inward while the UK "contained" the conflicts of Continental Europe to reaches far beyond us.

There's also education as we've said many times...there's no limit to the reasons this state of things came to be.
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2012, 01:13:02 PM »
To some degree I'd imagine the physical seperation from most of the rest of the world causes a lot of it. We simply don't need to know a lot about European or Asian countries or cultures because we're not going to come in contact with them unless we travel. We know a bit about Canada and Mexico because they're close, but beyond that there really isn't a pratical reason for the average person to know more.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2012, 01:14:53 PM »
There's also our lack of history, so to speak. America really hasn't been around that long, despite the fact that many new states have come into existence in the time since the U.S.'s founding.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2012, 01:27:31 PM »
There's also the effect that the US was a Super Power all the way through the 20th century. That builds up a certain amount of self-assurance, i.e. "why look at others, when clearly we are the best?".
I would suggest that arrogance is self-assurance minus common sense.  Our super power status gave us every reason to look within for betterment.  At the same time, there are always lessons to be learned from the outside, and ignoring them is foolish.  Knowledge for knowledge's sake is a wonderful endeavor. 
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Offline the Catfishman

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2012, 01:48:48 PM »
There's also our lack of history, so to speak. America really hasn't been around that long, despite the fact that many new states have come into existence in the time since the U.S.'s founding.

yes, I think this could have something to do with it, since the founding of the US the country has been on somewhat of an continuousness rise in power and wealth (it hasn't really been occupied/taken over etc) in comparison with older nations which have seen things go up and down several times. People migrated to the US to start a new, fresh, younger and better nation and are perhaps are a bit too enthusiastic in the process (or at least viewed from the old world).

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2012, 01:50:28 PM »
Not to mention we've never actually had a regime change, apart from the foundation of the US following independence.
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Offline snapple

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2012, 02:00:51 PM »
Because we run this town.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2012, 02:04:26 PM »
Not anymore we don't.
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Offline snapple

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2012, 02:32:52 PM »

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2012, 02:35:37 PM »
Wow, a chart about nuclear weapons.

I'm sorry, but firepower is not (and most certainly should not be) the only measure of global influence.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2012, 02:36:24 PM »
Military might is a Cold War measurement. All the Patriot missiles didn't help against 9/11.

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Offline snapple

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2012, 02:37:37 PM »
Military might is a Cold War measurement. All the Patriot missiles didn't help against 9/11.

rumborak

The little guys can't really militarily beat us. The big guys have to face the nukes.

What is China going to do? Ask us to pay them back?


We run this town.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2012, 02:38:52 PM »
The US is already hamstrung by China, you'd have to be ignorant to not see that. You don't need nuclear weapons to exert control.

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Offline snapple

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2012, 02:41:24 PM »
The US is already hamstrung by China, you'd have to be ignorant to not see that. You don't need nuclear weapons to exert control.

rumborak


Yes. But, you think a human representation would show up to a human representation of the USA and say "Pay up"? I doubt it, because China couldn't force the USA to pay. Not that they even WANT the USA to pay back the loans.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2012, 02:45:24 PM »
There is no forcing necessary. All that China needs to do is move their investments over to Europe or other places. The US dollar would tank like crazy.
Just like in any cold war, it's the possibility that counts. And China's ability to have the US economy tank beyond recovery lets them get away with a lot of stuff.

While the US is certainly still a major player, it no longer "runs the town". That was the case in 1980, not in 2012.

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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2012, 03:03:11 PM »
For being so isolated we sure have our dicks all over the world in places is doesn't belong.
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Offline Omega

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2012, 03:13:48 PM »
We know a bit about Canada and Mexico

I'd actually say that most Americans tend to be extremely misinformed and terribly uneducated regarding its two closest neighbors.
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Offline snapple

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2012, 03:20:42 PM »
Isn't the euro not doing so well, rumby?

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2012, 03:22:42 PM »
There is no forcing necessary. All that China needs to do is move their investments over to Europe or other places. The US dollar would tank like crazy.
Just like in any cold war, it's the possibility that counts. And China's ability to have the US economy tank beyond recovery lets them get away with a lot of stuff.

While the US is certainly still a major player, it no longer "runs the town". That was the case in 1980, not in 2012.

rumborak


Or to word it more concisely, China has soft power, and it's soft power that really matters in a globalized world.
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Offline AcidLameLTE

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2012, 03:27:02 PM »
Isn't the euro not doing so well, rumby?
Despite it being in a bad shape, I'm pretty sure it's still doing better than the dollar.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2012, 03:29:16 PM »
Isn't the euro not doing so well, rumby?
Despite it being in a bad shape, I'm pretty sure it's still doing better than the dollar.

And whaddya know, a quick Google search confirms this assertion. :hat
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Offline Rathma

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2012, 03:43:21 PM »
Isn't the euro not doing so well, rumby?
Despite it being in a bad shape, I'm pretty sure it's still doing better than the dollar.

What do you mean?

Offline rumborak

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2012, 03:55:16 PM »
Isn't the euro not doing so well, rumby?

How is that relevant? I used Europe as a rather random example of where China could move its investments to. There's myriad other places.

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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2012, 04:08:06 PM »
Not to mention he didn't specifically state the euro would be tied to the trade; for all you know, Germany's deutschmark could be China's target, and wisely chosen one at that.
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2012, 05:08:10 PM »
Not to mention we've never actually had a regime change, apart from the foundation of the US following independence.

Revolution of 1800.

There's been numerous times where there's been regime changes in our country, and it's worked through republic/democratic processes.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2012, 08:01:37 PM »
Oh, no, I meant in the usual bloody struggle variety. Y'know, revolution, occupation, full-scale invasion, etc. Like the last few weeks I've been learning about pre-PRC China, and we've never had anything even a hair within approaching that.
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2012, 10:34:05 PM »
Oh, no, I meant in the usual bloody struggle variety. Y'know, revolution, occupation, full-scale invasion, etc. Like the last few weeks I've been learning about pre-PRC China, and we've never had anything even a hair within approaching that.

I'm sure we'd disassociate before regime change like that, at this point.

Offline jsem

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2012, 06:49:07 AM »
The US is already hamstrung by China, you'd have to be ignorant to not see that. You don't need nuclear weapons to exert control.

rumborak


Yes. But, you think a human representation would show up to a human representation of the USA and say "Pay up"? I doubt it, because China couldn't force the USA to pay. Not that they even WANT the USA to pay back the loans.
Rumborak explained this VERY well, but China is really the only purchaser of certain US bonds. If they just stop purchasing it the US economy will collapse.

China wins the game in the long run because of economic growth. You can have all the guns and try to conquer militarily and be impoverished, or you could conquer economically and less vioently and have prosperity.


But even then, "we run this town" is not a sufficient reason for ignorance.

Offline PraXis

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2012, 06:57:17 AM »
For being so isolated we sure have our dicks all over the world in places is doesn't belong.

THIS.

Offline ZBomber

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2012, 12:37:55 PM »
Military might is a Cold War measurement. All the Patriot missiles didn't help against 9/11.

rumborak

The little guys can't really militarily beat us. The big guys have to face the nukes.

What is China going to do? Ask us to pay them back?


We run this town.

This attitude is the reason the US gets so much flack. Just because we have weapons doesn't mean we can do whatever the fuck we want.

Offline Beowulf

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Re: Why Is America So Isolated?
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2012, 12:41:01 PM »
Personally, I'd absolutely LOVE to travel the world and see other countries.  Because of my Literature background, there are so many places in the UK and Europe I want to see and experience.  There are times I am quite ashamed to be American ONLY from the standpoint of the country's overall ignorance.  When people from other countries come to the US, we fully expect them to speak in English.  But when the stereotypical American travels to other countries, we are amazed that they don't speak English.  70% of the world speaks a different language.  Its that sort of ignorance and arrogance.  True, its a stereotype, but those stereotypes do stem from a grain of truth.

But I guess I'll have to wait to travel until I win the Lotto.  Maybe I should try numbers a little more random than just the Fibonacci series.

Or those stupid numbers from "Lost".  You know EVERYONE used those for a while!
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