Rush Album-Pair Discussion Of The Week! (Now with POLL!!! VOTE!!!)

[Orbert]

i listened to some rush for the first time today
they are pretty good

[Big Hath]

HA!

[The Letter M]

And now to the last pair of albums to discuss for this thread (Unless anyone can think of any more...)

Snakes & Arrows Live presents to us a complete show from the first leg of the tour, giving us such gems as "Digital Man", "Circumstances", "Entre Nous", "Witch Hunt" and "Mission", as well as the return of "Natural Science"! This is quite a different set list than the previous two tours gave us, especially with 9 out of 13 new songs played from the S&A album! It's an impressive show with a great set and there really isn't much more to it. The band plays admirably and Neil's solo has changed more than it had in the past, and was even SHORTENED! Who knew he could pull back so much after 2 decades of adding/swapping parts and arrangements of his solo? Here, he's taken parts out completely, and added brand new ideas, and even learned to start improvising parts of his solo even more than usual. This was a good tour and this show is a great piece of it. The inclusion of the Atlanta bonus songs on the video set gives us every song played on the tour between both legs! After dropping 8 tunes from R30, I guess they decided to make up for not giving us everything (again, as RIR had 2 bonus tracks) by adding the Atlanta songs, which gives us a nice treat in the form of "Ghost Of A Chance"

The Time Machine Tour is the band's most recent live release and it's got the unique pleasure of presenting the entire Moving Pictures album live, and it's quite a doozy! This album hasn't been spun by me often since it only came out recently, but I'm listening to it now and I enjoy the first performances of "Faithless" and "Presto", as well as the return of "Marathon", "Stick It Out" and "Leave That Thing Alone" to the set, and the encore is just awesome! I'd say the band did a great job picking a well-balanced set list this time around.

-Marc.

[The Letter M]

So I am reviving this topic with a twist - Each pairs of albums will now be pitted against each other!! I'll update every Friday (if I can remember to )
7/13-7/19 - Rush VS Fly By Night
7/20-7/26 - Caress Of Steel VS 2112
7/27-8/2 - A Farewell To Kings VS Hemispheres
8/3-8/9 - Permanent Waves VS Moving Pictures
8/10-8/16 - Signals VS Grace Under Pressure
8/17-8/23 - Power Windows VS Hold Your Fire
8/24-8/30 - Presto VS Roll The Bones
8/31-9/6 - Counterparts VS Test For Echo
9/7-9/13 - Vapor Trails VS Snakes & Arrows (just in time for the first week of the Tour!)

For this week, we start with the first two albums. While their debut is pretty good (for what it is), their 2nd album pretty much wins for me - songs like "Anthem", "By-Tor & The Snow Dog" and "Beneath, Between & Behind" really put this album over the top. Even though FBN has "Rivendell" (which is an interesting piece in of it self), it doesn't tarnish the whole album enough to put their debut ahead of it.

-Marc.

[Phoenix87x]

I'm gonna go with the debut since I feel like its consistently good from beginning to end where as Fly by Night has peaks and valleys and they were still feeling each other out.

I also listen to the debut more often then FBN. (even though Anthem is my favorite Rush song)

[Big Hath]

Fly By Night but it is really, really close.  Finding My Way, In the Mood, and Working Man are strong but they are edged out by Anthem, BB&B, and By-tor.  The title track is the icing on the cake.

[nicmos]

I know you're looking for a definitive vote, but I have to say it depends on my mood.  Completely agree about debut being more consistent from beginning to end, but higher highs on FBN.

I would say Best I Can and Making Memories (in addition to Rivendell) are less good than any of the songs on the debut.  There are so many good songs on the debut that are underrated.  Before and After comes to mind.

So in the end (pun intended) more of the time I prefer Rush as a complete listening experience.  But sometimes I'm in the mood (no pun intended!) for Anthem, By-Tor, BB&B, and In The End.

p.s. Anthem has been the basis for many of my passwords since the 90s.  That's how awesome I think the song is.  (But if you try to log in as me on this site, you'll be out of luck; the password is not "Anthem" )

[The Letter M]

Now we come to the band's 3rd and 4th albums, each with a side-long epic, but as many fans will recognize, "2112" (the song) was a far better and more cohesive attempt at the prog rock staple, the multi-movement, side-long epic.

For me, these two albums might be an even draw - 2112 has the amazing opening self-titled track, as well as "A Passage To Bangkok", but I only find the rest of the album to be okay-to-good, not great or amazing. On Caress Of Steel, everything but "I Think I'm Going Bald" on Side 1 is just amazing, especially the epic "The Necromancer", a sequel/prequel/sidequel to "By-Tor & The Snow Dog", while Side 2's suite ranges from good-to-great. If I were to weigh these two albums out, it might come close to being even, there's just great charms to both, but also some less memorable moments as well. Unfortunately, 2112 might always be seen as the better album, considering it was pretty much their breakthrough and thus, overshadowed it's predecessor, which has now attained some sort of cult-following-status in that it's either greatly admired or unfairly ridiculed, with everything from the Tolkien-esque cover art to the more fantastical Side 2 story... and of course, a song about going bald.

-Marc.

[Orbert]

I prefer 2112 by a pretty wide margin, but I also realize that Caress of Steel had to come first.  They really learned a lot about songwriting on CoS, and those lessons learned are a big part of what made 2112 so amazing.  And yes, I'm mostly talking about the title epic, but Side Two isn't bad, just often overlooked.  The songs are all under four minutes long, and that's short in general for a band on the verge of going prog, but short for Rush specifically.  I think that after doing some musical exploration with Caress of Steel, there was a conscious decision to restrict that side of them to the title epic, and make the rest of the songs concise and to the point.  And they are.  If you don't like one of them, it's over soon.  If you like, it packs its punch and you move on.

I play Side One of Caress of Steel sometimes, but I've never gotten into "The Fountain of Lamneth".  The way it's so fragmented keeps taking me out of the experience.  It just has no flow.  It's literally a bunch of shorter pieces put together.

[KevShmev]

This ain't even fair.  Caress of Steel is quite good and pretty underrated by a lot of people, but 2112 is just a whole other animal and a top 5 Rush record.

[Priest of Syrinx]

This is rough.  2112 is one of the seminal songs in the history of music.  The problem is Side B, where APTB & Circumstances are good, but the other songs, not so much.

Caress of Steel is more consistently good, where only ITIGB falls down.  But nothing comes close to the eargasm that is 2112's title track.

[Jaq]

Let's see...

Honestly, 2112 only wins BECAUSE of the title track. I like Passage to Bangkok and Something For Nothing, but I like Bastille Day and The Necromancer better. 2112 is a far more realized side long epic than Fountain, so that puts it over the top.

But it's closer than you'd think!

[The Letter M]

This is rough.  2112 is one of the seminal songs in the history of music.  The problem is Side B, where APTB & Circumstances are good, but the other songs, not so much.

Caress of Steel is more consistently good, where only ITIGB falls down.  But nothing comes close to the eargasm that is 2112's title track.

"Circumstances" That's on Hemispheres my friend. Did you mean "Something For Nothing"?

-Marc.

[The Letter M]

Now I pit two of the band's greatest albums ever, and probably my favorite back-to-back Rush albums.

It's hard to pick one over the other - they are both so ridiculously good, it's insane! If I *had* to pick one, however, I would go with AFTK. While I like "Cygnus X-1, Book II: Hemispheres" quite a bit, I'd take "A Farewell To Kings" and "Xanadu" over it. And while AFTK only has 6 tracks, it offers a bit more variety than HEMI's 4 tracks, even though "La Villa Strangiato" is a Top 10 Rush song for me.

Although, I could always change my mind on any given day and time. They're practically equal, for me, I just think (at this moment), AFTK has a slight edge.

-Marc.

[senecadawg2]

Hemispheres>Farewell to Kings

[jammindude]

Hemispheres>Farewell to Kings

[Priest of Syrinx]

These 2 albums are twins, and should not be separated.

[SeventhSon]

A Farewell to Kings was my favourite Rush album for years, and then I really got into Hemispheres, big time, and bumped Farewell down to 2nd. For me, Hemispheres is four 10/10 songs, whereas Farewell is four 10/10 songs and two 9/10 songs (Cinderella Man and Madrigal). These two albums are just so so good. I think the run from 2112 through Moving Pictures is among the best five-album runs any band has ever had.

[The King in Crimson]

Farewell to Kings.  Every song on it is perfect.  Even "Madrigal."

Hemispheres is so grossly overrated in the Rush community.

"Cygnus" takes a song that was perfectly concise on AFTK and expands it to new, uninteresting levels and lengths.  Honestly, I always zone out during this song.  It holds no appeal to me whatsoever.

"Circumstances" is a good, concise little song.  Fun but not a favorite.

"The Trees" is the same.  I didn't like it much at first, but I do like it now.

"La Villa Strangiatto" is the standout and it's their best instrumental and probably one of the best instrumentals ever.

[Zydar]

A Farewell To Kings is my #2 Rush album after Moving Pictures. Xanadu is one of their very best songs (A Top 3 for me).

I'm not equally crazy over Hemispheres though. Circumstances and La Villa Strangiato are my favourites there.

[Unlegit]

Hemispheres is my favorite Rush album, and AFtK is number 3, after Moving Pictures. I love every song on Hemispheres, but the same cannot be said for AFtK. Xanadu is my favorite track by Rush, but Madrigal and Cinderella Man drag the album down. The remaining songs are all excellent, however.

[Phoenix87x]

Hemispheres>Farewell to Kings

[jammindude]

Funny because I find Cygnus X-1 to be the weakest part of the entire piece.   It feels more like an "intro" to me...a prelude to the REAL song. 

Book 2, for my money is not only the greatest Rush song ever...but quite possibly the single greatest piece of rock music ever recorded.   (well...at least I thought that until I heard Supper's Ready...but I digress)   You can really tell how much Rush matured from 2112 to Hemispheres, because while 2112 feels more like 6 different songs that were pasted together and then tied together with an Overture, Hemispheres feels much more like a single cohesive piece of music....AND it even harkens back to Book 1 as an intro.   Every note is just absolutely brilliant.

AFTK is really fantastic, but Hemispheres is Rush perfection. 

[nicmos]

Agreed that Hemispheres is my preference for similar reasons as others, but I wish the production on Hemispheres could be more like AFTK.  The later album lacks the punch of the earlier one, and I also like Geddy's bass sound on AFTK more than just about any other Rush album.

Oh, and that gong at the end of Hemispheres is a total ripoff of SDOIT

[The Letter M]

Two of the band's best albums, right here, PEW and MP. They produced a lot of great hits (among fans and on the radio), and are probably two of the band's most popular albums (next to 2112).

Sure, MP gets a lot more notice since Side 1 is full of recognizable hits, but Side 2 also has their more experimental stuff with their last 10+ minute epic and a couple pieces that were unlike anything they had done before.

However, PEW is a bit more consistent, IMO, and has greatness all over it, in every song, and it's got heavy epic tracks like "Jacob's Ladder" and "Natural Science", while giving us more concise prog-pieces in "The Spirit Of Radio" and "Freewill".

It's a toss-up, really, both are great albums, but if I had to give one the edge over the other, I'd choose PEW, mostly because if I didn't choose, I still would have made a choice.

-Marc.

[jammindude]

Neil has said that in some ways, MP was the first Rush album.   I disagree.   The beginning of the new era started with PeW.   2nd favorite Rush album behind Hemispheres.   Rush had perfected the all-out prog of the 70's, and were ready to move on...but not by selling out like so many other bands did.   

4 shorter concise pieces, 2 mini-epics...this album is just amazing.   PeW wins for me.   MP is also a top 5 album...and it's the one that got me into Rush in the first place.   Maybe it's just because Vital Signs (while great) is not *as* great as the stuff on the rest of the album or PeW...maybe it's because MP is slightly more overplayed.   But I think mostly it's because the PeW epics are better than the MP epic.    The Camera Eye is a great song...but it's also over-rated, and probably the poorest of all the 10+ min Rush songs. 

[Pols Voice]

I've always preferred Permanent Waves to Moving Pictures. I find the second half of Pictures to be noticeably weaker than the first half (which is a problem with a lot of Rush albums), but I like all of Waves. Natural Science is probably the best Rush song.

[fadetoblackdude7]

These 2 albums are twins, and should not be separated.

This. Goes for both A Farewell To Kings/Hemispheres and Permanent Waves/Moving Pictures

[nicmos]

First 5 tracks of Moving Pictures > All of Permanent Waves.  And that's not an easy hurdle.  If you take out Different Strings, I would rate PeW higher.  But Jacob's Ladder, as good as it is, has a little too slow a tempo to be thoroughly enjoyable.  Instead, it feels a little too plodding.  (But I do like it a lot.)  Entre Nous is fun, but probably as generic as Rush songs come.  (see also: New World Man).  I actually usually skip Vital Signs.  But it doesn't matter, MP is still stronger.

Finally, the production/mixing on MP is meatier, the guitar sound clearer, overall better.

[splent]

I've always preferred Permanent Waves to Moving Pictures. I find the second half of Pictures to be noticeably weaker than the first half (which is a problem with a lot of Rush albums), but I like all of Waves. Natural Science is probably the best Rush song.

This is how I feel.  Everything up to Camera Eye on Moving Pictures is killer.  I usually skip Witch Hunt, and while I like Vital Signs, it's not open your eyes awesome Rush... However, as far as epics go, Natural Science >>>>>>>>>>>>> Camera Eye.  And I don't skip ANYTHING on Permanent Waves.  Spirit of Radio is my favorite pump you up song, Natural Science is my 2nd favorite overall Rush song (behind Subdivisions)... so yeah.  Permanent Waves for me.

[nicmos]

I've always preferred Permanent Waves to Moving Pictures. I find the second half of Pictures to be noticeably weaker than the first half (which is a problem with a lot of Rush albums), but I like all of Waves. Natural Science is probably the best Rush song.

This is how I feel.  Everything up to Camera Eye on Moving Pictures is killer.  I usually skip Witch Hunt, and while I like Vital Signs, it's not open your eyes awesome Rush... However, as far as epics go, Natural Science >>>>>>>>>>>>> Camera Eye.  And I don't skip ANYTHING on Permanent Waves.  Spirit of Radio is my favorite pump you up song, Natural Science is my 2nd favorite overall Rush song (behind Subdivisions)... so yeah.  Permanent Waves for me.

if we're going to go there, Natural Science is a highly enjoyable song, but from about 5:06 to 7:17 it's really not my cup of tea.  If you took that out and replaced it with something less clunky and more propulsive like the rest of the song, I would agree that it would be in the all time top 5 probably.

so you combine my opinion of Natural Science with the lackluster Different Strings, Entre Nous, and Jacob's Ladder, and you see why I can't pick Permanent Waves over Moving Pictures.  Plus, production again.  It's no contest there.

Of course neither one of these is my favorite Rush album, start to finish.  I know they're the best-selling ones, but that doesn't mean they're my faves.

[Jirpo]

Both amazing albums, but I slightly prefer MP.

[The Letter M]

So Rush moves head-forward into the 80's with some more influences outside their comfort zone, ever keeping up and changing their sound and style while still being absolutely Rush.

Between these two, I'd cal it a draw. It took me awhile to get into these two albums, although initially I liked GUP a bit more than SIG, but over the years, they've evened out a bit. Rush's follow-up to their hit Moving Pictures is a bit of everything, introducing more "The Police"-type sounds while including more synths and keys, where as GUP really amp'd up the synthesizers while the guitar slowly took a back seat, but Alex still ripped some great solos.

I think Signals has a bit more of an organic sound than GUP, but there's some cool synth-stuff in many of the songs.

-Marc.

[Phoenix87x]

tough call on this one.

Signals is consistently good from beginning to end, where as GUP starts out incredible, but then drops off a little bit in the back end. Having a Chorus derived in Binary may have seemed like a good idea on paper, but doesn't really do it for me.

I have probably listened to GUP more overall, but since Signals has two of my top 5 Rush songs Subdivisions and Losing it, I guess I'll go with Signals, but its very close.

[jammindude]

Close call for me as well.  These albums came out when I was at the peak of my Rush fandom. 

They both have classics, and they both have duds.   But I can never seem to agree with anyone else on what those are. 

With Signals, I love the first three tracks...but even after 30 years, I can't get into Digital Man.   The Weapon is (to me) the strongest song of the Fear suite...then NWM cheezes things out a bit.   But it ends pretty strong with Losing It and Countdown...which in spite of some fairly tepid lyrics, has one of the strongest ending riffs of any Rush closer. 

P/G starts strong as well...again, the first three tracks are all fantastic.   Then TEW just loses me.  I was so excited to hear Part I of Fear, and it was just a huge disappointment.   Not a very good song, and still the weakest in the Fear suite.   Body Electric was really cool when it came out, but really hasn't aged well.   Kid Gloves is a lost classic that gets overlooked too often.  I *ADORE* Red Lenses.   The lyrics come across as corny, but they are actually quite humorous and fairly intelligent.   Some of the wordplay is quite clever, and I never understood why people hate on it so much.   And of course, Between the Wheels....

The great songs from each are a tie...and they both have one clunker with Digital Man and The Enemy Within.    So this is just too close to call.