Porcupine Tree v. Glarung is a Lightbulb

[Zantera]

I think it also probably doesn't help SW that he really radiates 'boomer energy' and any time there's an interview he lays things out how they should be according to him. There's nothing more appealing to younger people than a guy in his 50s trying to push his views on them. But yeah I would say in most cases your level of popularity is usually a reflection of your early albums. A lot of the bands and artists who are huge got there because within their first 2-3 releases they just exploded in popularity and they can ride that wave. We were talking about DT earlier and whether SW dissed them or not, but DT is another good example of a band that still to this day can live off Images & Words. An iconic album within the prog metal scene and no matter how you feel about their recent output, people will still go and see DT because they want to hear some of those old classics.

SW has done an admirable job grinding it out in the business and slowly gaining more popularity, and he's in a pretty good place. But he's never gonna be one of those huge names that 9 out of 10 people on the street knows, the sort of artist that sells out multiple shows in a 80k capacity stadium. I think if anything, him trying to twist his songwriting to achieve that (whether it's Permanating or The Future Bites) hurts more than it does good.

[Setlist Scotty]

What do don’t understand about SW is his frustration at not being taken seriously as a ‘pop star’ - he went on talk shows and gave interviews expressing his resentment etc

Does he not realise that pop stars establish themselves when they are young, sexy, and appealing.
Sorry Steve, you always looked like a dork with lank hair, and as a ‘pop’ song, Permanating simply isn’t catchy enough to win the casual radio listener

If that sounds shallow, well, of course it is. That’s ‘Pop’.

As a serious musician however, he’s almost unparalleled in the last 20 years. I am quite the fan. But I wouldn’t put a Steven Wilson poster on my wall.

Phil Collins would like a word.

Reading through this thread I thought of Phil as well. From my limited perspective, I think right from the get-go, Phil's solo stuff was far more pop than Genesis stuff was (at least at the time), so it was easier for him to establish himself as a solo pop star. Nevermind that he still had his "day" job with Genesis for another 12 years. With Steven, his solo output is (to my ears at least) not that significantly different from PT, and certainly not far more pop than what PT was doing. Additionally, it wasn't long after Steven starting doing solo stuff that he pretty much canned PT for the time being. Perhaps if he would've gone in a decidedly pop direction right from the beginning with his solo output as well as being on a bigger label and/or more promotion, maybe he could have attained something more akin to Phil.

[Fonzie]

Collins had that bald geezer look that appealed to middle-aged women- he could be one of the Mitchell brothers (Eastenders reference- sorry non-brits), a bit of rough.

Wilson looks like a D&D nerd.

[nobloodyname]

I don’t think it’s quite so simple as him being arrogant. I honestly think that Steven Wilson is on the spectrum. And not just in a quirky sort of way. I mean that my opinion is that he IS AUTISTIC. As such, that would mean that he is just isn’t capable of grasping the way most people do things.

He's opinionated, articulate, passionate, compassionate, focussed, curious and empathetic. All of that is on display in various interviews, articles and backstage footage. What he isn't, is autistic.

[KevShmev]

I think it is important to remember that SW views (what he considers) good pop through the lens of acts like Tears for Fears and XTC, both of whom were considered pop in the 80s, so it's not like he was releasing The Future Bites and trying to be Justin Beiber at the age of 53.

[Duetsch Dream Dates]

I don't really care for albums like Fear of a Blank Planet and Future Bites, not because of the music, which is still good, but the concepts or lyrical content of those release I feel were explored and expressed by other artists and musicians in much more timeless and profound ways.  Its a direct polar opposite of lyric content and themes on isolation and music industry/commercialism in the "Stupid Dream"/"Lightbulb Sun" albums, which could fit into any decade since the 70s.

But his career arc is interesting, from creating a fake band to elevate the music and maintain a sense of anonymity, to all-out promotion with his face and brand all over in The Feature Bites. 

[jammindude]

I don’t think it’s quite so simple as him being arrogant. I honestly think that Steven Wilson is on the spectrum. And not just in a quirky sort of way. I mean that my opinion is that he IS AUTISTIC. As such, that would mean that he is just isn’t capable of grasping the way most people do things.

He's opinionated, articulate, passionate, compassionate, focussed, curious and empathetic. All of that is on display in various interviews, articles and backstage footage. What he isn't, is autistic.

“I’m not crazy. My mother had me tested.”   

[King Postwhore]

"You can be crazy but not autistic. " - Kingshmegland.   

[KevShmev]

"You gotta be crazy, you gotta have a real need..."

[Zantera]

I don't really care for albums like Fear of a Blank Planet and Future Bites, not because of the music, which is still good, but the concepts or lyrical content of those release I feel were explored and expressed by other artists and musicians in much more timeless and profound ways.  Its a direct polar opposite of lyric content and themes on isolation and music industry/commercialism in the "Stupid Dream"/"Lightbulb Sun" albums, which could fit into any decade since the 70s.

I think honestly, as much as I love SW and his music, this really hits the nail on the head. I feel like the biggest reason he hasn't become the HUGE artist he wants to be, is that most of his career he's been behind the curve rather than in front of it. Early PT definitely took a lot from older bands like Pink Floyd and the metal-era PT was heavily influenced by Opeth - a more groundbreaking band doing some really classic albums at the time. Even SW's solo career has largely been influenced by what others have done better before. Insurgentes tries to do a lot of post-punk/drone/shoegazy things (my favorite of his solo albums) and you could tell he was heavily influenced by certain bands. GFD and Raven are big homages to 70s prog rock and his more recent 'art-rock' type albums are definitely him trying to channel his David Bowie/Prince among others.

No shame in borrowing from others and being influenced but I don't think I've ever heard an SW album and thought "Nobody has ever done this before". And usually that's what separates big bands/artists from huge ones.

[Kwyjibo]

That's the thing imo, where he comes across as pretentious. In his book and in interviews he talks at length about how music has to be innovative and influential to be relevant. And also he doesn't say it that clearly, he looks down on everyone who makes music or listens to music that is neither of the two.
He claims that one of his favorite records is the recording of the buzz that electric fences make.
And then he goes out and starts a career that is heavily lending from Pink Floyd and others. And as Zantera pointed out, he's changing, but he doesn't come up with something really new, he just lets other influences take the upper hand.

[Zantera]

That's the thing imo, where he comes across as pretentious. In his book and in interviews he talks at length about how music has to be innovative and influential to be relevant. And also he doesn't say it that clearly, he looks down on everyone who makes music or listens to music that is neither of the two.
He claims that one of his favorite records is the recording of the buzz that electric fences make.
And then he goes out and starts a career that is heavily lending from Pink Floyd and others. And as Zantera pointed out, he's changing, but he doesn't come up with something really new, he just lets other influences take the upper hand.

I remember when he came out swinging hard against bands like The Flower Kings for being 'regressive' and in his words 'killing prog rock' but then he made The Raven That Refused to Sing like a year or two later.  You don't HAVE to put everything else down to lift yourself up but that's really been his M.O. A lot of other artists in the prog sphere seem to look at their fellow bands with a mixture of respect and appreciation but with SW i just feel like he looks at a band like DT with seething contempt. 

[KevShmev]

I think the difference there is that many in the prog community take a communal approach as if "we are all doing prog, so let's stick together," while Wilson has often tried to avoid the prog tag, as he doesn't like the idea of being pigeon-holed into one genre, and I think that is why he never has the kneejerk positive reaction to prog bands in general.  For as much of his music that does fall under the prog banner, that is not where he wants to plant his flag.

[Kwyjibo]

His elitists views about music puts him firmly in the prog community. 

[Zantera]

If he doesn't want to be associated with the prog community he shouldn't have been making prog albums for 30 years.
Also, most people would be happy with what they have. Maybe he envisioned himself as a new Bowie/Prince when he started off but he's now 55, got a loyal fanbase in the prog community and he's achieved more than many others will. It would seem logical to be thankful for his spot in the music world, and honestly if he flips off the prog community then who does he have in his corner?

[King Postwhore]

Imagine having fans say to an artist to stay your lane?  If someone said that to any of you, you'd have a hissy fit. Hey, if you don't like the change, don't listen.  That will correct if the artist recognizes it didn't work.   Or, the artist don't care about money.

[Zantera]

Imagine having fans say to an artist to stay your lane?  If someone said that to any of you, you'd have a hissy fit. Hey, if you don't like the change, don't listen.  That will correct if the artist recognizes it didn't work.   Or, the artist don't care about money.

I don't think anyone is saying he should stay in his lane but if you make prog rock for 30 years maybe don't walk around thinking you're above that and throw cheap shots at other bands making similar music as yourself? SW has done plenty of different things over the years and I like his side projects (Blackfield is actually my favorite project he's involved with) but it would also feel accurate to say he is where he is because the prog rock community embraced him and that's the side of his music personality that appeals to people the most. It's fine to do other things but you gotta be brave sometimes and take the leap. As happy as I was to get a new PT album, I think he probably should have doubled down and made a follow up to The Future Bites if changing the perception of him as an artist was the nr1 concern for him.

[King Postwhore]

He's made more than that. He's done melancholy pop, ambient music. Is anyone surprised that he shifts gears musically? 

[Kwyjibo]

I'm not surprised when he changes his style and I don't have a problem with it.

I always thought he was a prick and a douche. Reading his book made me like him as a person much more and maybe appreciate his music even more. If he would only stop to talk condescending about music/bands/artists he doesn't like or doesn't care about or doesn't understand, that would be appreciated. This holier than thou attitude doesn't suit him, imo.

[KevShmev]

I don't think changing the perception of himself as an artist has ever been his number 1 concern.  He simply doesn't want to pigeon-holed, but you cannot control the expectations of fans, especially ones from the prog community, far too many of whom thumb their noses at non-prog music.  He's pretty much in a situation where a segment of his fanbase is not going to like anything he releases that isn't super prog.  Look at how many reacted when he stopped working with the musicians he did on The Raven and Hand Cannot Erase.  SW's music has never been about technical flash or having the best players, but all of a sudden it is an issue that he is playing with musicians who aren't as technically proficient as Guthrie Govan or Marco Minnemann.  It's like people forgot who SW is and what his attitude in general about music is.

[Zantera]

I gotta say with the current events in his career of the last few years, this new album is maybe the one I'm the most curious about in a while. He's always done a pretty good job of being diverse within his musical sphere, with the right amount of 'playing it safe' and 'trying a new curveball', but The Future Bites did not quite land for a lot of people. Even as someone who was okay with the album, I thought it lacked really good songs, it was mostly just fine. But he had to take a big hit on the tour with covid and all, he went back to his safe zone and made a new PT album. A good one, but also quite safe, not necessarily breaking any new ground or anything. Not that you always need to. Sometimes after a miss, you just gotta do the work, get something out to change the word of mouth. New PT seemed to have gone over mostly well. At best, people really liked it, at worst it was another solid album by the band.

So yeah I'm quite curious about the next solo album because TFB tried a lot of new things, didn't quite land. C/C was more of a safe territory album that seemed to go over fairly well. I don't expect the solo album to be as safe, so I'm interested to hear how much from TFB carries over, if any at all. Is he gonna give up on that direction, or just take a new one?

[Kram]

If he doesn't want to be associated with the prog community he shouldn't have been making prog albums for 30 years.
Also, most people would be happy with what they have. Maybe he envisioned himself as a new Bowie/Prince when he started off but he's now 55, got a loyal fanbase in the prog community and he's achieved more than many others will. It would seem logical to be thankful for his spot in the music world, and honestly if he flips off the prog community then who does he have in his corner?

Well said!

[SoundscapeMN]

bump.

live album?

https://open.spotify.com/album/5mYbcsNRQIqyxpZYWwgQJK

[The Letter M]

bump.

live album?

https://open.spotify.com/album/5mYbcsNRQIqyxpZYWwgQJK

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/porcupine-tree/2022/ziggo-dome-amsterdam-netherlands-53be1f11.html

The setlist entry says the show was filmed for a BD release, so it seems like it's coming soon. Maybe in early 2024 at this rate because it seems late to market a December 2023 release.

-Marc.

[ErHaO]

Nice, was there and loved the show! Looking forward to the release.

[ErHaO]

Harridan live sounds good to me!

Pre orders are up (via their site). I ordered the full thing, seems I also got the signed art print.

[Kocak]

I liked Harridan live more than the studio version TBH.

[faizoff]

Hmm $35 shipping for the US from PT's site. Burning Shed is $20. At least it's only one month away from release.

[ErHaO]

The video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pavnAi7lNk


The trailer for the entire release: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k0Bq5bmZBQ

I liked Harridan live more than the studio version TBH.

I agree, it sounds better. Looking forward to the other CC songs in their live form. Chimera and Herd were two of my highlights last year.

[The Letter M]

Maybe in early 2024 at this rate because it seems late to market a December 2023 release.

-Marc.

Well sometimes I don't mind being wrong. I didn't expect this to come out next month! Ordered the deluxe 2CD/2BD set from Burning Shed, only $74 after shipping (and insured/signed-for shipping was cheaper than the the shipping without insurance or tracking).

Haven't heard the live version of "Harridan" - I'll probably wait til I get the set to watch the whole concert.

-Marc.

[ProfessorPeart]

I would assume that Laser CD should be stocking this. Shipping should be much better from them.

[Samsara]

Want this, but yeah, shipping probably better from Laser when they get it in. I'll sit tight.

[faizoff]

The video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pavnAi7lNk

That looked and sounded great. I really wished artists would start selling the physical 4k discs. The youtube video is already available in 4k, why not just reprint that too?

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

looks like there is a new PT live release coming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k0Bq5bmZBQ

[ReaperKK]

I haven't watched the video clip yet but I'm excited for a new live release. I really hope there is more focus on other band members other than SW. My biggest complaint with Arriving Somewhere is that you'd often hear Gavin, or Colin, or Richard doing something cool and the camera was fixed on Steven.