Porcupine Tree v. Glarung is a Lightbulb

[Zantera]

Trying to rationalize leaving Colin out as just something that naturally came out of the first jams, while giving the real reason at the same time, is shitty no matter how much you care about the guy. Steven Wilson isn't Porcupine Tree, it is - or it should be - a band, and being in Porcupine Tree shouldn't be determined by whether you reached out first to keep in touch with Steven Wilson when he went off to have a solo career and said a bunch of things about how he didn't need that kind of band anymore. Such situations pretty much demand a courtesy text, and if the guy is that cut off he might have said no anyway. If I were the others I wouldn't passively go along with it but what do I know It's probably easier to split the money in three and just pay a guy to play the tour.

Yeah I get the feeling SW isn't your normal guy who has 'friends' in the traditional sense. I always got the feeling that he viewed the other musicians more as tools to achieve his vision and tools could also be replaced if he felt the need to. I think most other 'normal' people would have at least reached out to Colin because when you spend 20 years together in a band, normally you form some kind of bond over all the experiences. I kinda disagree on his take that "Me/Richard/Gavin were always the core of the band" because Colin's presence on bass was really felt in their music imo and an album like In Absentia has a lot of Colin moments that really stand out (.3 and Strip the Soul for example). I think if any of the members stand out as the least 'needed' one I would say Gavin because PT were making fantastic music before Gavin joined and I don't mean that as a knock on him (because I love what he brought) but you already had SW/Gavin/Colin providing the PT sound and Gavin just kinda slipped in like the cherry on top.

[King Postwhore]

Trying to rationalize leaving Colin out as just something that naturally came out of the first jams, while giving the real reason at the same time, is shitty no matter how much you care about the guy. Steven Wilson isn't Porcupine Tree, it is - or it should be - a band, and being in Porcupine Tree shouldn't be determined by whether you reached out first to keep in touch with Steven Wilson when he went off to have a solo career and said a bunch of things about how he didn't need that kind of band anymore. Such situations pretty much demand a courtesy text, and if the guy is that cut off he might have said no anyway. If I were the others I wouldn't passively go along with it but what do I know It's probably easier to split the money in three and just pay a guy to play the tour.

I beg to differ. He is Porcupine Tree. It started out as only him. He writes everything,  over time he even played bass on songs instead of Colin.  It's always been about him. 

Barbieri was always there because he brought something that added to Steven's music just like Holzman.  Brought something to Steven's music.

[jammindude]

Trying to rationalize leaving Colin out as just something that naturally came out of the first jams, while giving the real reason at the same time, is shitty no matter how much you care about the guy. Steven Wilson isn't Porcupine Tree, it is - or it should be - a band, and being in Porcupine Tree shouldn't be determined by whether you reached out first to keep in touch with Steven Wilson when he went off to have a solo career and said a bunch of things about how he didn't need that kind of band anymore. Such situations pretty much demand a courtesy text, and if the guy is that cut off he might have said no anyway. If I were the others I wouldn't passively go along with it but what do I know It's probably easier to split the money in three and just pay a guy to play the tour.

I beg to differ. He is Porcupine Tree. It started out as only him. He writes everything,  over time he even played bass on songs instead of Colin.  It's always been about him. 

Barbieri was always there because he brought something that added to Steven's music just like Holzman.  Brought something to Steven's music.

Well, yes and no. Because let’s face it, if PT IS SW, then there is no reason to break off and have a solo career. The fact is, that while it may have started as Stevens solo project, he eventually found himself in a band situation where he felt stifled because he wanted to try things that the other band members (Richard specifically IIRC) didn’t want to do. So while Steven was a primary band leader, there was a “group think” dynamic to the band by the time it got to the final lineup.

[Zantera]

Trying to rationalize leaving Colin out as just something that naturally came out of the first jams, while giving the real reason at the same time, is shitty no matter how much you care about the guy. Steven Wilson isn't Porcupine Tree, it is - or it should be - a band, and being in Porcupine Tree shouldn't be determined by whether you reached out first to keep in touch with Steven Wilson when he went off to have a solo career and said a bunch of things about how he didn't need that kind of band anymore. Such situations pretty much demand a courtesy text, and if the guy is that cut off he might have said no anyway. If I were the others I wouldn't passively go along with it but what do I know It's probably easier to split the money in three and just pay a guy to play the tour.

I beg to differ. He is Porcupine Tree. It started out as only him. He writes everything,  over time he even played bass on songs instead of Colin.  It's always been about him. 

Barbieri was always there because he brought something that added to Steven's music just like Holzman.  Brought something to Steven's music.

Well, yes and no. Because let’s face it, if PT IS SW, then there is no reason to break off and have a solo career. The fact is, that while it may have started as Stevens solo project, he eventually found himself in a band situation where he felt stifled because he wanted to try things that the other band members (Richard specifically IIRC) didn’t want to do. So while Steven was a primary band leader, there was a “group think” dynamic to the band by the time it got to the final lineup.

This and also you could make the point that the band wasn't really that great before the others joined. I mean I like Up the Downstair and On the Sunday of Life has a couple of good songs but The Sky Moves Sideways forward really sounds like a band taking huge steps and I think the others really helped in forming their sound.

[Kram]

Trying to rationalize leaving Colin out as just something that naturally came out of the first jams, while giving the real reason at the same time, is shitty no matter how much you care about the guy. Steven Wilson isn't Porcupine Tree, it is - or it should be - a band, and being in Porcupine Tree shouldn't be determined by whether you reached out first to keep in touch with Steven Wilson when he went off to have a solo career and said a bunch of things about how he didn't need that kind of band anymore. Such situations pretty much demand a courtesy text, and if the guy is that cut off he might have said no anyway. If I were the others I wouldn't passively go along with it but what do I know It's probably easier to split the money in three and just pay a guy to play the tour.

I beg to differ. He is Porcupine Tree. It started out as only him. He writes everything,  over time he even played bass on songs instead of Colin.  It's always been about him. 

Barbieri was always there because he brought something that added to Steven's music just like Holzman.  Brought something to Steven's music.

Well, yes and no. Because let’s face it, if PT IS SW, then there is no reason to break off and have a solo career. The fact is, that while it may have started as Stevens solo project, he eventually found himself in a band situation where he felt stifled because he wanted to try things that the other band members (Richard specifically IIRC) didn’t want to do. So while Steven was a primary band leader, there was a “group think” dynamic to the band by the time it got to the final lineup.

This and also you could make the point that the band wasn't really that great before the others joined. I mean I like Up the Downstair and On the Sunday of Life has a couple of good songs but The Sky Moves Sideways forward really sounds like a band taking huge steps and I think the others really helped in forming their sound.

I agree with this.  And for me, once Gavin joined they really took it to the next level.

[King Postwhore]

All Stevens decisions though.   He wanted a heavier sound. He wanted a more progressive drummer. Steven said it was a band but he made all the decisions.  He'll, he played bass on songs knowing Colin's style wasn't what he invisioned for the song.

He went solo to do styles he didn't invision that the band could pull off.

[Zantera]

All Stevens decisions though.   He wanted a heavier sound. He wanted a more progressive drummer. Steven said it was a band but he made all the decisions.  He'll, he played bass on songs knowing Colin's style wasn't what he invisioned for the song.

He went solo to do styles he didn't invision that the band could pull off.

He's said a hundred times he went solo because his 'vision' for new music didn't align with the others (specifically saying others hated jazz) so if PT was truly HIS band and his alone then he would have just fired whoever wasn't on board and went ahead? Especially since PT was an established name at that point and he was sort of starting from scratch with the solo stuff.

[King Postwhore]

Yes.  Because he then gets his name out there more. Name brand. He now makes the same decisions but with his name is in the forefront instead of the name of the band he founded and was the captain. 

[MoraWintersoul]

He'll, he played bass on songs knowing Colin's style wasn't what he invisioned for the song.

That's the reason he gave, and then he goes on to give the real reason, which is that he doesn't vibe with Colin enough because Colin didn't bother to reach out first. It's the classic SW flip flopping we all love and exasperatedly sigh at

[Zantera]

He'll, he played bass on songs knowing Colin's style wasn't what he invisioned for the song.

That's the reason he gave, and then he goes on to give the real reason, which is that he doesn't vibe with Colin enough because Colin didn't bother to reach out first. It's the classic SW flip flopping we all love and exasperatedly sigh at

I also read some interview where the answer was "you couldn't jam with more than 3 musicians that's too many in the room" and I was like ?!?!?!?! 

But yeah it's kinda classic SW. I'm sure next week in another interview there's another answer to the question.

[King Postwhore]

He'll, he played bass on songs knowing Colin's style wasn't what he invisioned for the song.

That's the reason he gave, and then he goes on to give the real reason, which is that he doesn't vibe with Colin enough because Colin didn't bother to reach out first. It's the classic SW flip flopping we all love and exasperatedly sigh at

I'm talking about the 2000 albums. Steven plays base on some of the songs like Ariving Somewhere.  Not his recent admission that he doesn't vibe with Colin.

[KevShmev]

Trying to rationalize leaving Colin out as just something that naturally came out of the first jams, while giving the real reason at the same time, is shitty no matter how much you care about the guy. Steven Wilson isn't Porcupine Tree, it is - or it should be - a band, and being in Porcupine Tree shouldn't be determined by whether you reached out first to keep in touch with Steven Wilson when he went off to have a solo career and said a bunch of things about how he didn't need that kind of band anymore. Such situations pretty much demand a courtesy text, and if the guy is that cut off he might have said no anyway. If I were the others I wouldn't passively go along with it but what do I know It's probably easier to split the money in three and just pay a guy to play the tour.

I beg to differ. He is Porcupine Tree. It started out as only him. He writes everything,  over time he even played bass on songs instead of Colin.  It's always been about him. 

Barbieri was always there because he brought something that added to Steven's music just like Holzman.  Brought something to Steven's music.

Well, yes and no. Because let’s face it, if PT IS SW, then there is no reason to break off and have a solo career. The fact is, that while it may have started as Stevens solo project, he eventually found himself in a band situation where he felt stifled because he wanted to try things that the other band members (Richard specifically IIRC) didn’t want to do. So while Steven was a primary band leader, there was a “group think” dynamic to the band by the time it got to the final lineup.

I think Wilson's comments back in the day were that PT's sound had kind of been established, so he felt like there were expectations of what the band was supposed to sound like, and I am guessing he felt that fans in general would far more forgiving and accepting of an album like Grace for Drowning as a SW solo album rather than as the next PT record.  Granted, Wilson is a guy who has no problem bouncing all of the place with his sound and style, but I am sure he calculated that it was a far better move to put PT on the backburner and go solo than to risk annoying fans with a drastic change in style under the PT name.  He saved his "I will annoy the fans with a sudden change" moment for The Future Bites. 

[ReaperKK]

He'll, he played bass on songs knowing Colin's style wasn't what he invisioned for the song.

That's the reason he gave, and then he goes on to give the real reason, which is that he doesn't vibe with Colin enough because Colin didn't bother to reach out first. It's the classic SW flip flopping we all love and exasperatedly sigh at

But yeah it's kinda classic SW. I'm sure next week in another interview there's another answer to the question.

SW in a nutshell.

[goo-goo]

I just realized I placed orders from multiple outlets. LOL.

Basically I got:

-Vinyl Box
-CD/BR box
-Gold, Silver, Black vinyl (missed on the white and I'm not a fan of clear ones).
-Japanese Blu Spec (first time trying this CD format)
-CD from Burning Shed, just trying to see if I can score one of the 500 signed prints they are randomly placing in orders.

[pfillion]

New review

https://www.sonicperspectives.com/album-reviews/porcupine-tree-closure-continuation/

[Kram]

He'll, he played bass on songs knowing Colin's style wasn't what he invisioned for the song.

That's the reason he gave, and then he goes on to give the real reason, which is that he doesn't vibe with Colin enough because Colin didn't bother to reach out first. It's the classic SW flip flopping we all love and exasperatedly sigh at

I also read some interview where the answer was "you couldn't jam with more than 3 musicians that's too many in the room" and I was like ?!?!?!?! 

But yeah it's kinda classic SW. I'm sure next week in another interview there's another answer to the question.

Did he really say that? And as an excuse as to why Colin is no longer in the band???

[Hubert]

There is yet another reason for not having included Colin, given this time by Gavin:

"The most clichéd thing I could say is musical differences, but that probably is at the very core of it. Musically, I felt like Colin Edwin was usually pulling us in a different direction."

That's probably the closest to the truth, imo.

(https://www.innerviews.org/inner/porcupine-tree)

Personally I miss Colin's touch on all the new songs I've heard so far. SW playing bass on the new record is a step backward.

[Kram]

There is yet another reason for not having included Colin, given this time by Gavin:

"The most clichéd thing I could say is musical differences, but that probably is at the very core of it. Musically, I felt like Colin Edwin was usually pulling us in a different direction."

That's probably the closest to the truth, imo.

(https://www.innerviews.org/inner/porcupine-tree)

Personally I miss Colin's touch on all the new songs I've heard so far. SW playing bass on the new record is a step backward.

I have much more respect for that reasoning than only 3 musicians fit in the room, WTH

[KevShmev]

There is yet another reason for not having included Colin, given this time by Gavin:

"The most clichéd thing I could say is musical differences, but that probably is at the very core of it. Musically, I felt like Colin Edwin was usually pulling us in a different direction."

That's probably the closest to the truth, imo.

(https://www.innerviews.org/inner/porcupine-tree)

Personally I miss Colin's touch on all the new songs I've heard so far. SW playing bass on the new record is a step backward.

Does anyone else feel like that is code for, "Colin wanted to groove, and I just wanted to play as much complicated stuff as possible?" 

[King Postwhore]

Sounds right. Steven wanted to bring a 3rd person into the bedroom. 

He is the wrong guy to explain anything because he is self centered.

[Zantera]

The fact all 3 of them have given different answers (and SW himself has given multiple different answers) kinda add some amusement to the situation though. I would not be surprised if the next reason given for Colin being excluded was "We just couldn't have someone with a hat on stage" 

[KevShmev]

The more they talk about why Edwin is no longer in the band, the more I get it, and I don't think they really are giving different answers at this point that are that different so much as they all have slightly different perspectives. 

Anyway, that interview posted by Hubert is great.  A long read, but a lot of good stuff in there by all three.

[faizoff]

Anyone's order ship yet? I haven't received any notification from Laser's Edge yet. Curious if any of the other retailers shipped it out.

[The Letter M]

Anyone's order ship yet? I haven't received any notification from Laser's Edge yet. Curious if any of the other retailers shipped it out.

I've been curious about this as well. I haven't received any notification emails from Laser's Edge either, and my order status hasn't changed either. I'm thinking it won't arrive this week, let alone ship this week.

-Marc.

[gazinwales]

No I am collecting my 2CD/BR version from a local brick and mortar store in Sydney.
Hoping they'll have stock tomorrow on release day.

[Buddyhunter1]

My friend (we live in the US) said his pre-order of the CD just shipped.

[KevShmev]

Times really have changed, as I will be content with buying the new album on iTunes Friday morning.  I just don't buy any physical CDs anymore.

[Kram]

Times really have changed, as I will be content with buying the new album on iTunes Friday morning.  I just don't buy any physical CDs anymore.

LOL I did the same, pre-ordered it the other day on iTunes. It already automatically loaded the first three singles onto my devices (I guess you can buy the singles separately once they're released). I haven't listened to them though - waiting until Friday to get the full album experience.

[KevShmev]

Times really have changed, as I will be content with buying the new album on iTunes Friday morning.  I just don't buy any physical CDs anymore.

LOL I did the same, pre-ordered it the other day on iTunes. It already automatically loaded the first three singles onto my devices (I guess you can buy the singles separately once they're released). I haven't listened to them though - waiting until Friday to get the full album experience.

That's the advantage of digital purchasing. I can buy it and have it on my phone to listen to in the car on the way to work Friday and then on the buds that day if I so choose.  I used to take the "I want my first listen to be on the good stereo" attitude, but not as much lately.  First listens of this kind of music rarely win me over from head to toe, so I am fine with the first good stereo listen not being the first actual listen anymore.

[Ben_Jamin]

Listening to Rats Return, now that is the sound I would define as Porcupine Tree. Weird, interesting video to go along with it too. Regardless of no Colin, I think it's going to be a great album. Wish I could see a live show, but I will be waiting for a live video to surface, hopefully.

[gazinwales]

SW mentioned is a promo interview that every show will have the audio recorded and a couple will be filmed.

[KevShmev]

Depending on the set list and what older songs they play and how good the new songs are, a possible live release from the upcoming tour has the potential to be their best one yet.  It is already addition by subtraction by not bringing John Wesley back into the live fold (thanks goodness!!).

[faizoff]

I emailed Laser's Edge, and they replied back hadn't received the stock for the 2CD/BR edition yet but expect to get it soon.

My friend (we live in the US) said his pre-order of the CD just shipped.

It looks like the regular CD edition has no issues with delivery.

[gazinwales]

It's already Friday in Australia and I am listening via YT music and it sounds great.
Even though I don't like the sound quality of streaming, this does sound quite dynamic.

Copied from another forum, it seems the DR is pretty good for this album

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Porcupine Tree / Closure / Continuation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR10 0.00 dB -13.91 dB 8:08 01-Harridan
DR13 -0.09 dB -16.39 dB 4:43 02-Of The New Day
DR12 -0.07 dB -15.06 dB 5:40 03-Rats Return
DR12 -0.03 dB -16.06 dB 8:22 04-Dignity
DR12 -0.02 dB -15.84 dB 7:03 05-Herd Culling
DR12 -0.05 dB -14.79 dB 4:27 06-Walk The Plank
DR12 0.00 dB -15.90 dB 9:39 07-Chimera's Wreck
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 7
Official DR value: DR12

[The Letter M]

Closure / Continuation is undeniably a Porcupine Tree album.

A couple listens in and I can definitely hear the through-line of PT's evolution from IA-DW-FOABP-TI up to C/C, but I also hear some of Steven's solo work in the writing as well. Nothing has really stood out for me quite yet except the opener "Harridan", which funnily enough opens with a driving baseline that reminds us that Colin isn't here. A bit bold to open the album with a bass riff played by SW, it's quite the statement.

Maybe I'll share more thoughts as I get to know these songs a bit more over the weekend but first impressions are very positive. If they don't do another album ever again, this is a better swan song for PT than The Incident was over 10 years ago.

-Marc.