Porcupine Tree v. Glarung is a Lightbulb

[KevShmev]

I'm pretty sure, that SW has the last say in everything. And didn't he say, that he doesn't know if there's any future PT activity after this tour? So maybe this is all irrelevant in a few months time.

I suspect that is a marketing ploy, kind of like saying, "This could be our last tour, so come see us now before it's too late!"  It could get some on the fence fans to concerts if they think it's the last time they'll have a chance to see them.

[ErHaO]

I hope/believe we will at least see some more stuff in the future. They seem to be happy with the record and it overall been recieved very well by both critics and the public. And looking at the Ziggodome, the ticketsales over here seem to do well (which is a much, much larger hall than they ever played). They are in the positions where they can treat it as a project that pops up every now and then, rather than a fulltime band. I hope/think that can work for these guys, no?

[King Postwhore]

Which goes to show that it's Steven's band. Not an equal vote like most want to believe.

But isn't this exactly what changed now vs back then, by the three of them being equal owners?

Steven is the one turning the Knobs. He's in control.

[The Curious Orange]

I do wonder whether this reunion has a lot to do with the fact The Future Bites didn't do as well as hoped. I know SW has been playing larger and larger venues, but he'd announced some huge shows for that album that I couldn't see him ever coming close to selling out. I wonder if he realised that if he wants to play huge venues, he's going to have to do it under the PT name, because his own name isn't strong enough to sell that many tickets.

[faizoff]

Anyone get the artbook/deluxe edition in the US yet? Itching to listen to the album in high res on my system. The FLAC versions already sound pristine, curious how the high bitrate ones compare.

[KevShmev]

I do wonder whether this reunion has a lot to do with the fact The Future Bites didn't do as well as hoped. I know SW has been playing larger and larger venues, but he'd announced some huge shows for that album that I couldn't see him ever coming close to selling out. I wonder if he realised that if he wants to play huge venues, he's going to have to do it under the PT name, because his own name isn't strong enough to sell that many tickets.

I am not sure this is true.  While I think he could be doing the PT thing to get a nice cash influx to make up for the bath he took on TBT tour (since he had to eat the production costs for a tour that had to be cancelled), it is impossible to know what tickets sales would have been like for the TBT tour under normal circumstances, as the pandemic threw a wrench into it.  Heck, the release of the album was delayed by more than six months because of the pandemic, so the promotion for the album was totally thrown off, as the first single ended getting released nearly a year before the album eventually came out.  If TBT comes out in 2020 as planned and the tour starts on schedule, it is impossible to know how well or not well it would have done.

[King Postwhore]

I do wonder whether this reunion has a lot to do with the fact The Future Bites didn't do as well as hoped. I know SW has been playing larger and larger venues, but he'd announced some huge shows for that album that I couldn't see him ever coming close to selling out. I wonder if he realised that if he wants to play huge venues, he's going to have to do it under the PT name, because his own name isn't strong enough to sell that many tickets.

I am not sure this is true.  While I think he could be doing the PT thing to get a nice cash influx to make up for the bath he took on TBT tour (since he had to eat the production costs for a tour that had to be cancelled), it is impossible to know what tickets sales would have been like for the TBT tour under normal circumstances, as the pandemic threw a wrench into it.  Heck, the release of the album was delayed by more than six months because of the pandemic, so the promotion for the album was totally thrown off, as the first single ended getting released nearly a year before the album eventually came out.  If TBT comes out in 2020 as planned and the tour starts on schedule, it is impossible to know how well or not well it would have done.

Very true Kev.  That was at the height of the unknown of the pandemic when there was no vaccine and no answers. 

[ErHaO]

I do wonder whether this reunion has a lot to do with the fact The Future Bites didn't do as well as hoped. I know SW has been playing larger and larger venues, but he'd announced some huge shows for that album that I couldn't see him ever coming close to selling out. I wonder if he realised that if he wants to play huge venues, he's going to have to do it under the PT name, because his own name isn't strong enough to sell that many tickets.

I think that was a very limited tour, wasn't it only three shows or something like that? Not sure how ticket sales were going, but during To The Bones he was playing larger venues here than he ever did with P I think. One of the PT DVD is 013, which was 2000 people back in the day. He played in a 6000 people hall in Amsterdam during the To The Bone tour (and other concerts were within reasonable distance, like Belgium/Germany).

[The Curious Orange]

He announced a TFB show at the O2 in London - that's 23,000 seats. He would NEVER have sold half of that. Similar sized venues across Europe. No way. Even industry insiders were raising eyebrows at that.

[ErHaO]

He announced a TFB show at the O2 in London - that's 23,000 seats. He would NEVER have sold half of that. Similar sized venues across Europe. No way. Even industry insiders were raising eyebrows at that.

Yeah I agree that seems waaaaay too large.

But I just checked some venues from the planned 8 show 2020 tour and some were way smaller than that (Sporthalle Hamburg and Zenith Paris are like 7000 people).

And I know for the Ziggodome that while the event capacity goes up to 17000, that does not need to be used. I have been at venues in The Netherlands where they closed off the outer rings or a back part of the halls. Not all events in these halls are that big. If they did sell for the full 17000 then I agree that would be a challenge.

[Zantera]

I also initially felt part of the reason for bringing back PT was the somewhat lukewarm reception The Future Bites got. That's not to say I think it's the only reason, but it could have been a factor in SW putting the focus on PT to be the next album in the pipeline. Had he gone for another solo album instead, I'm sure there would be some buzz along the lines of "I don't know the last one wasn't great" but you bring back PT from the dead and make the first album in 12 years and any disappointment TFB may have brought is quickly forgotten and people are hyped up again.

But I'm sure if you ask SW again he wouldn't consider TFB a disappointment at all - it did get some good reviews and I'm sure he himself considers it one of his best. But still feels fair to say that fan reception was more mixed than it's been for previous albums. He'll bounce back with another solo album but this new PT album is the most fun I've had with his music in a decade!

[Samsara]

Second full listen of C/C complete. I like it even more. It's soooooo much better to my ears than The Incident. That said, I do hear elements of SW's solo work in the music. Which is totally cool, and obviously unavoidable. But I like how they really nailed what PT's (for lack of a better term) "sound" is as a baseline and sort of grooved and created from there. It works. And Gavin Harrison's drumming is really killer on this one (it always is).

Really looking forward to seeing this performed live.

[ariich]

He announced a TFB show at the O2 in London - that's 23,000 seats. He would NEVER have sold half of that. Similar sized venues across Europe. No way. Even industry insiders were raising eyebrows at that.

Perhaps, but it's hard to compare to previous tours. Normally he plays a whole load of shows in smaller venues, whereas his announcement for that planned tour suggested he wanted to do something different, a smaller number of "special" shows with a big spectacle in bigger venues. We may never know what he had in mind with that.

[Kram]

He announced a TFB show at the O2 in London - that's 23,000 seats. He would NEVER have sold half of that. Similar sized venues across Europe. No way. Even industry insiders were raising eyebrows at that.

Perhaps, but it's hard to compare to previous tours. Normally he plays a whole load of shows in smaller venues, whereas his announcement for that planned tour suggested he wanted to do something different, a smaller number of "special" shows with a big spectacle in bigger venues. We may never know what he had in mind with that.

Yes, I remember he said that.  It would be great if he would share with us what he had planned, seeing as it never happened.  Or maybe he's saving the "Spectacle" for his next solo tour?

[Ben_Jamin]

He announced a TFB show at the O2 in London - that's 23,000 seats. He would NEVER have sold half of that. Similar sized venues across Europe. No way. Even industry insiders were raising eyebrows at that.

Perhaps, but it's hard to compare to previous tours. Normally he plays a whole load of shows in smaller venues, whereas his announcement for that planned tour suggested he wanted to do something different, a smaller number of "special" shows with a big spectacle in bigger venues. We may never know what he had in mind with that.

I really wanted to see it too. Since it was also going to relate to the theme of The Future Bites. Being in bigger venues is usually due to the size of the stage being big enough for the production, stage size is very important and is one reason bands choose the venues they do. The only reason Dream Theater got to headline here in New Mexico was not only because of them playing all of Images and Words, but also because of their scaled down stage production. We don't really have a venue with a stage big/tall enough for most bands productions, which includes the video screens, that has a chance of selling enough, the draw isn't there.

Being how they've successfully kept this quiet for so long, this was bound to happen sometime soon. As The Future Bites tour wasn't happening and Steven having some free time, why not record the songs and release them. It sounds to me like the perfect opportunity to make the new PT happen.

I do wonder if Steven will bring some of his solo tour stage production ideas into the PT stage production, such as the video curtain.

All that makes the album title more meaningful, based on how it all goes, determines the future of Porcupine Tree.

[Samsara]

I think the bottom line will be, if the three key members of PT are all in great spirits on the tour and get along great, there will be no reason NOT to continue. I mean, SW has said it since he started doing press for the record: PT is the biggest it has ever been. Way more than when they left. PT is playing The Masonic in San Francisco. It sits roughly 3,400. The last PT tour, they played The Warfield, which is about 2,300. Gone over a decade, and boom, into way bigger venues (at least in San Fran).

So fingers-crossed the three of them gel on the road and have a smashing time. Because it's almost a certainty that if they do, PT will continue.

[King Postwhore]

I'm seeing them in a new MGM theater at Fenway Park which holds 5,000.  Last time I saw them was a 2,000 capacity theater.

[Samsara]

I'm seeing them in a new MGM theater at Fenway Park which holds 5,000.  Last time I saw them was a 2,000 capacity theater.

Boom. That's what I'm saying.

[ReaperKK]

I think the bottom line will be, if the three key members of PT are all in great spirits on the tour and get along great, there will be no reason NOT to continue. I mean, SW has said it since he started doing press for the record: PT is the biggest it has ever been. Way more than when they left. PT is playing The Masonic in San Francisco. It sits roughly 3,400. The last PT tour, they played The Warfield, which is about 2,300. Gone over a decade, and boom, into way bigger venues (at least in San Fran).

So fingers-crossed the three of them gel on the road and have a smashing time. Because it's almost a certainty that if they do, PT will continue.

I hope PT does continue. In probably wrong in this assumption but it feels like no matter how well they do SW seems to resent the success of PT so I'm cautiously optimistic.

[SwedishGoose]

Will be seeing them in Avicci Arena in Stockholm which holdd 16.000.
Way more than SW solo or PT has ever drawn in Sweden.

I wonder how the sales go.

[The Letter M]

From the few interviews I've seen and read with Steven, it really seems like he is leaving the door open for PT to continue. Heck, the album name is pretty much a big sign for the band to be on-going, but Steven has already announced his plans for another solo album. Will Richard and Gavin sit by while Steven goes off on another solo adventure, only to wait for another PT album, or will Steven put his solo work aside and see if PT should continue touring/writing/releasing music together?

The chart success for C/C might help Steven reconsider his plans, and if the tour is a huge success with shows at near capacity, he might be even further persuaded to continue PT for another album/tour after this year. It's a very "Wait And See" situation right now, but honestly, like many of you here, I'd say C/C is probably my favorite thing Steven's done since The Raven or HCE, and before those, it was FOABP.

As for the tour itself, I'm sure they'll play all seven songs from the main album, but I could also see the band not doing all of them and even tossing in one, two, or all three of the bonus tracks as well. Either way, it'll be a treat to see them play this material live! Hopefully the shows are packed so the band can see just how much their return means to the fans, but given how expensive tickets seem to be (the DC show has tickets over $200...yikes), I can see fans opting out of going, especially those who already feel cheated into having to buy the album twice (because of bonus tracks, or delays in receiving they physical product). I'm not much of a concert-goer, and prefer to buy physical products and some t-shirts to show off my fandom and appreciation of bands I love, but one of the few concerts I've gone to was Porcupine Tree on their FOABP tour (in Baltimore), and that was an experience! I envy everyone who can manage to go these shows and experience this band live.

-Marc.

[Kram]

I hope PT does continue. In probably wrong in this assumption but it feels like no matter how well they do SW seems to resent the success of PT so I'm cautiously optimistic.

LOL, it does seem like that doesn't it?  But why would he?  Because he didn't do it all "Himself"?

[KevShmev]

I never got the sense that SW resents the success of PT, but just was a bit frustrated that fans came to expect a certain sound out of them and he felt the pressure to not stray far from it. 

He has already said that his next solo album is a go, with a tour to boot, but I agree that if this PT reunion is the smashing success that it is looking like it will be, it will be hard for him to just put that on the backburner again for a decade.

[Skeever]

4 or 5 listens in, and having trouble not including this in SW's best work.
I never considered PT an absolute favorite band of mine, but I always liked them enough to check out their new records. SW solo is where I really got on board. Now, with C/C, I feel like I'm being reminded of why PT were so great to begin with.

[faizoff]

Gave C/C a rest and listened to disc 1 of The Incident, probably am one of the few who absolutely love that album. It may be derivative, lame, full of bored ideas and not up to par with what SW wanted in a PT record but goddamn do I love it. The production also is top-notch as you'd expect from SW.

Going to listen to Fear now which is my favorite Gavin Era PT albums.

[KevShmev]

Gave C/C a rest and listened to disc 1 of The Incident, probably am one of the few who absolutely love that album. It may be derivative, lame, full of bored ideas and not up to par with what SW wanted in a PT record but goddamn do I love it. The production also is top-notch as you'd expect from SW.

Going to listen to Fear now which is my favorite Gavin Era PT albums.

  this post!

I don't put a lot of stock into the band's not overly positive opinion of The Incident, as I could list pages of times where I disagreed with an artist's opinion of one of their albums or songs. 

I listened to Fear a few times last week and came away wondering if it was their best.  Granted, that happens with many PT albums, but I usually put that one a shade or two behind Deadwing, Lightbulb Sun and Stupid Dream, but now I am not so sure.

[Buddyhunter1]

C/C is a good album, but doesn't really come close to surpassing their three best albums (IA, Deadwing, FOABP) for me. I'm not even sure I'd rank it above The Incident tbh - that's another good but not great album and definitely not one of their worst. C/C I think is a bit more consistent than The Incident is, but The Incident feels like a more fully-fleshed out and complete statement to me.

[ReaperKK]

If you don't include Nil Recurring I think Fear is the weakest of the Gavin era albums.

[KevShmev]

If you don't include Nil Recurring I think Fear is the weakest of the Gavin era albums.

Why would (the general) you include Nil Recurring?

Call me crazy, but when I rate, judge or rank albums, I do them off of the proper albums. Adding bonus tracks, EPs or whatever from the same era feels like cheating.

[The Letter M]

If you don't include Nil Recurring I think Fear is the weakest of the Gavin era albums.

Why would (the general) you include Nil Recurring?

Call me crazy, but when I rate, judge or rank albums, I do them off of the proper albums. Adding bonus tracks, EPs or whatever from the same era feels like cheating.

Except there are versions of the album that include those tracks and are all labeled as part of the album Fear Of A Blank Planet. Every original vinyl pressing of FOABP includes those four tracks, so for fans who got the album on vinyl, they got a 10-song album, and for them, that was the album.

Future re-presses and re-issues on vinyl don't include them, so I think if SW didn't want them to be considered as part of the album, he wouldn't have included them in the original vinyl versions like he did. He could have just as easily released a 2LP six-song album like the re-issues, but decided to include the Nil Recurring songs as part of the album.

And speaking of that, it's how I've always listened to the album ever since, and even after discovering the "Always Recurring" demo that fit before "What Happens Now?", I've added that in as well to my personal version of FOABP (which reaches 83:18 in length).

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

The original Fear CD did not have the Nil Recurring tracks, thus they are not part of the album. Including them on the later-released vinyl was probably more of a "let's put them all on one release" type of thing.  Revisionist history, even by the artist, does not change the facts. When Fear of a Blank Planet was released in 2007, it had six songs. No more, no less.

[hefdaddy42]

I've gotta go with Kev on this.

[faizoff]

If you don't include Nil Recurring I think Fear is the weakest of the Gavin era albums.

Why would (the general) you include Nil Recurring?

Call me crazy, but when I rate, judge or rank albums, I do them off of the proper albums. Adding bonus tracks, EPs or whatever from the same era feels like cheating.

Except there are versions of the album that include those tracks and are all labeled as part of the album Fear Of A Blank Planet. Every original vinyl pressing of FOABP includes those four tracks, so for fans who got the album on vinyl, they got a 10-song album, and for them, that was the album.

Future re-presses and re-issues on vinyl don't include them, so I think if SW didn't want them to be considered as part of the album, he wouldn't have included them in the original vinyl versions like he did. He could have just as easily released a 2LP six-song album like the re-issues, but decided to include the Nil Recurring songs as part of the album.

And speaking of that, it's how I've always listened to the album ever since, and even after discovering the "Always Recurring" demo that fit before "What Happens Now?", I've added that in as well to my personal version of FOABP (which reaches 83:18 in length).

-Marc.

This is the first time I'm hearing about this demo 'Always Recurring', very interesting. Was this part of any release or info dump?
Also had no idea the original Vinyl included all 10 tracks. That's odd because Fear and Nil Recurring were released separately on CD.

[KevShmev]

That's because they are two separate entities.

Not a big deal either way, but I just find it fascinating that some like to rank/judge albums based off of their own personal version of it.  And to be fair, I do with it my own personal version of the last Transatlantic album, but that's their fault for releasing 18 versions, none of which were just right.

[ReaperKK]

Actually another bone I have to pick with SW is all these bonus tracks spread across various releases. It's hard to keep up with and annoying to have x songs on y album but you can also get z songs that are also available on these other formats

Fucking Steven Wilson