Author Topic: Contraception  (Read 4676 times)

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Offline snapple

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Contraception
« on: March 06, 2012, 10:05:39 AM »
First of all: We were off to a great discussion in the other thread. I'm hoping it was just the title that caused it to be locked. If I was mistaken, please. Delete this thread. I am in no way trying to circumvent the bosk.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=31294.0 <--old locked thread.

On Rush

Quote
he accidentally admitted to millions of people that he doesn't understand how birth control works.

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I don't see a reason to knock him for this point. It's asinine. That's when it becomes nitpicking. He knows what it does but not how it works. OH BOY, BREAK OUT THEM TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS!

Is it our civic responsibility, as men, to understand how the stuff works? I personally don't see how it is.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2012, 10:10:12 AM »
Are you gonna go to jail for not knowing? No. Are you on the ignorant side of things for not knowing? Yes.

In terms of Limbaugh, his lack of ignorance about the various positive side effects of the pill (e.g. stabilizing hormone levels) could have caused him to not be an ass.

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Offline snapple

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2012, 10:13:41 AM »
As a man, is it really so bad to be ignorant in that regard? I just don't see the harm in not knowing. I know it doesn't hurt to know.

Offline ehra

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2012, 10:21:40 AM »
As a man, is it really so bad to be ignorant in that regard?

In of itself, no, but there's a difference between a random Joe being ignorant of how the pills work and a public figure making a statement on the topic of contraceptives while being ignorant of how they work and what exactly they do. If you're going to comment one way or another on the topic then at least understand the topic at hand.

Offline snapple

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2012, 10:24:49 AM »
But if you know what they do, just not how they work, how does that make one unable to make a comment on the topic? The topic wasn't how they work, it's that he didn't want his tax money going to it.

Offline jammindude

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2012, 10:26:26 AM »
As a man, is it really so bad to be ignorant in that regard? I just don't see the harm in not knowing. I know it doesn't hurt to know.

I think you should at least be somewhat educated in things that effect you.   You can debate whether it effects you...but IMO, if your significant other is using these products, and you are intimate with them on a somewhat regular basis...it effects you.   

I am personally against "not knowing anything about how woman parts work"...although I know that the choice to be ignorant is a common one.
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Offline TL

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2012, 10:59:27 AM »
He was claiming that 'these women are having so much sex that they can't afford birth control pills'.

A woman doesn't take a birth control pill every time she has sex. Regardless of frequency, it's only one per day. On top of that, many women take birth control pills for other, medical reasons.

It matters, because Limbaugh went on air ranting to millions of people, when one of the main pillars of his argument was extremely false. If you're going to rant about something to millions of people, you should know at least the most basic information about it.

Offline Chino

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2012, 10:59:59 AM »
I have no problems with contrceptives. If anything, I think they should be encouraged and given out freely to anyone that wants to use them. The tax dollars for supplying them would be far less than the cost of helping unplanned children. The whole moral dilemma and religious opposition shouldn't even be a factor. The Earth is already over populated. It has been projected that the US will have almost 450,000,000 people by the year 2050. Any action that can be taken to prevent this should be exercised. I do not think it needs to be as big of an issue as the media makes it out to be, I personally believe the current candidates make it the focus in order to avoid real issues. People should have the right to use contraceptives if they wish. The way I see it, my insurance covers my focussing medication in order to allow me to succeed in school and hopefully make money in the future. Pretty much any insurance company would cover this for me. Now this drug does nothing for me in regards to health, but I still get it for free (outside of the $10 co-pay). Why insurance companies don't use the same logic for birth control is beyond me. I know it's not the true for all cases, but the majority of females that get pregnant before or during college, and are not fortunate enough for someone to take care of their kid during the day, are forever doomed.

I'm going to rant about a girl I work with. I love her to death, but I HATE the situation she has put herself in. She is 23 years old, dropped out of highschool, and never got her GED. She lied to my employer about having a GED in order to get her job. Her boyfriend went to jail for a year they day he turned 18. He cleaned himself up a lot and worked with us for a while, that is until he got mad and quit. He's still unemployed over a year later. They live in a one room studio in the ghetto, they are shit broke, and haven't paid their rent in two months. Her father recently died (never associated with him) and found out two days later that she was three weeks pregnant. The two of them couldn't afford condoms let alone birth control. She got a grand total of $11,000 from his life insurance, most of which was spent on a car. She hadn't had one for five months prior to that, and bummed rides to and from work every day. Anyway, our company offered to make her full time (even though they are cutting hours) in order to get her some kind of insurance. She denied the offer because if she's part time the state will insure her, pay for baby formula, pay her utilities, give her more food stamps, and make sure she's not evicted (all for the babies sake). This absolutely enrages me... I'm just making these figures up for the sake of getting my point across, but I'd bet that five years of birth control would have been less than the multiple hospital trips shes already made just 16 weeks into pregnancy. The amount of money that the state is going to have to give to this mother throughout the childs young life is something I get disgusted thinking about. Not to mention that given the kids living conditions, and lack of oppurtunities it's going to get, he/she will most likely have to rely on the system for the majority of their life.

I really hate the thought of paying out the ass for something that could have cost me next to nothing from the beginning.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 11:26:10 AM by Chino »

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2012, 11:00:48 AM »
As a man, is it really so bad to be ignorant in that regard? I just don't see the harm in not knowing. I know it doesn't hurt to know.

I know I'm opening a huge can of worms with this, but we're not all climate scientists or economists, so is it really all that bad to express opinions about climate change or the Great Recession without a climatology or economics background? Like you said, it doesn't hurt to know, but does it hurt not to know? Because you shouldn't really *have* to be a climatologist or economist to express an opinion on one of these things, but any opinion you express would be nonsense if you didn't at least have *some* foreknowledge about it.

He was claiming that 'these women are having so much sex that they can't afford birth control pills'.

A woman doesn't take a birth control pill every time she has sex. Regardless of frequency, it's only one per day. On top of that, many women take birth control pills for other, medical reasons.

It matters, because Limbaugh went on air ranting to millions of people, when one of the main pillars of his argument was extremely false. If you're going to rant about something to millions of people, you should know at least the most basic information about it.

Or more concisely and to the point, that. If you're going to make accusations or opposing arguments, at least argue from a basis of knowledge, because otherwise it's not even a matter of opinion anymore. You're just dead wrong.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2012, 11:01:52 AM »
A woman doesn't take a birth control pill every time she has sex. Regardless of frequency, it's only one per day. On top of that, many women take birth control pills for other, medical reasons.


A lot of girls I know don't even take a daily pill. Most of them get shots that are good for a few month or some kind of ring that goes in their vagina (not quite sure how that one works).

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2012, 11:14:20 AM »
People should have the right use contraceptives

FTFY
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Offline Chino

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2012, 11:16:26 AM »
People should have the right use contraceptives

FTFY

what did you fix?

Offline Sigz

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2012, 12:12:27 PM »
The topic wasn't how they work, it's that he didn't want his tax money going to it.

Even that's a shitty argument though. Sandra Fluke was specifically arguing that contraceptives should be covered by her private university's health plan. Note the private part of that.

Every element of Rush's rant was flat-out false. The frequency that one has sex has nothing to do with frequency of contraceptive consumption, and his tax money wasn't going to pay for it in either case. It was the rantings of an ignorant misogynist, nothing more.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2012, 12:16:50 PM »
It was the rantings of an ignorant misogynist, nothing more.

Which makes me question why people are so wound up over it.  To me, it doesn't deserve more than a passing "LOLRush; Okay, now back to real life."
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Re: Contraception
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2012, 12:48:12 PM »
Which makes me question why people are so wound up over it.  To me, it doesn't deserve more than a passing "LOLRush; Okay, now back to real life."

People are upset because 1) it was an incredibly crass, rude, and baseless attack, 2) it was broadcast nationally, and 3) there are people who DO take Rush seriously otherwise he wouldn't have a show that is broadcast nationally.  Limbaugh (its a shame that he shares a name with such an awesome band) is going to be Limbaugh, but by making a public mockery of him when he does something that incredibly asinine helps that fan base disassociate with him.
     

Offline ehra

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2012, 01:01:29 PM »
But if you know what they do, just not how they work, how does that make one unable to make a comment on the topic?

It doesn't make one unable to comment on the topic, but it increases the chances that you'll say something monumentally stupid. This is what Limbaugh did, multiple times.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2012, 01:06:58 PM »
Which makes me question why people are so wound up over it.  To me, it doesn't deserve more than a passing "LOLRush; Okay, now back to real life."

People are upset because 1) it was an incredibly crass, rude, and baseless attack, 2) it was broadcast nationally, and 3) there are people who DO take Rush seriously otherwise he wouldn't have a show that is broadcast nationally.  Limbaugh (its a shame that he shares a name with such an awesome band) is going to be Limbaugh, but by making a public mockery of him when he does something that incredibly asinine helps that fan base disassociate with him.

Yes, but people who are taken seriously make national comments that are incredibly crass, rude, and baseless all the time.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2012, 01:11:56 PM »
Which makes me question why people are so wound up over it.  To me, it doesn't deserve more than a passing "LOLRush; Okay, now back to real life."

People are upset because 1) it was an incredibly crass, rude, and baseless attack, 2) it was broadcast nationally, and 3) there are people who DO take Rush seriously otherwise he wouldn't have a show that is broadcast nationally.  Limbaugh (its a shame that he shares a name with such an awesome band) is going to be Limbaugh, but by making a public mockery of him when he does something that incredibly asinine helps that fan base disassociate with him.

Yes, but people who are taken seriously make national comments that are incredibly crass, rude, and baseless all the time.

And those people don't have the political influence Rush has. Republicans, right are wrong, usually fawn to Limbaugh; I think even George Will said Republicans want War with Iran, but are afraid of Rush Limbaugh.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2012, 01:32:22 PM »
I wish contraception would have been free long ago, like .... how old is Limbaugh?

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2012, 01:33:01 PM »
:lol  Yeah, well, let's not go down that road again, okay?
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Offline Chino

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2012, 02:28:42 PM »
Bill Maher made a funny comment about Rush. It went something like "Rush is on his fourth wife and has no children. He doesn't need a contraceptive, he is a contraceptive"

Offline snapple

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2012, 04:25:21 PM »
He really isn't that bad. I usually listen to him in the car. Granted, I didn't hear those comments. He doesn't do so well with social issues like that, IMO.

Unfortunately, most non-listeners only hear about him when he makes the occasional gaffe. I should make it clear that I'm not defending him by any means for THOSE comments. He, and other conservatives, generally don't advocate the name calling that he did. I don't appreciate it (even if that lady was being a ho'). I may make sexist jokes (ALL THE TIME) but, all the women in my life are very independent and sources of inspiration for me. I respect women. I don't get why he would say that. Unless he just decided that it's been too long since his name has been on all the outlets.

Offline Chino

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2012, 04:49:14 PM »
He really isn't that bad. I usually listen to him in the car. Granted, I didn't hear those comments. He doesn't do so well with social issues like that, IMO.

Unfortunately, most non-listeners only hear about him when he makes the occasional gaffe. I should make it clear that I'm not defending him by any means for THOSE comments. He, and other conservatives, generally don't advocate the name calling that he did. I don't appreciate it (even if that lady was being a ho'). I may make sexist jokes (ALL THE TIME) but, all the women in my life are very independent and sources of inspiration for me. I respect women. I don't get why he would say that. Unless he just decided that it's been too long since his name has been on all the outlets.

Even if he had a perfect record up to this point, those comments were so over the top (especially the sex tape part) that I don't think his image could ever recover. His comments made Imus' "nappy headed hoes" comment seem laughable.

Offline snapple

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2012, 04:50:05 PM »
You underestimate how mindless some of his drones are.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2012, 05:44:12 PM »
You underestimate how mindless some of his drones are.

This, and nobody does it better than the Yuppies.
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2012, 06:32:43 PM »
Bill Maher made a funny comment about Rush. It went something like "Rush is on his fourth wife and has no children. He doesn't need a contraceptive, he is a contraceptive"

:lol

snapple I think you must know about contraception if you're a political radio personality that wishes to criticize it!
And Limbaugh has never been okay snapple.. he's never been okay  :yeahright  :biggrin:
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2012, 07:32:39 PM »
He really isn't that bad.
He's a divisive hate-monger with never a good word to say about anyone.
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Offline senecadawg2

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2012, 09:55:02 PM »
It was the rantings of an ignorant misogynist, nothing more.

Which makes me question why people are so wound up over it.  To me, it doesn't deserve more than a passing "LOLRush; Okay, now back to real life."

Seriously. We have a winner.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2012, 10:04:02 AM »
Im going to paraphrase a conversation from my philosophy class on Monday. My professor is usually pretty cool with letting conversations run.



Girl 1: There is nothing wrong with a man masturbating, but a man using condoms is wrong in the eyes of god, as well as all other forms of contraceptives.

Guy 1: Either action is a waste of sperm (gods gift of life), you have to either agree or disagree with both actions.

Girl 1: Masturbation is not wrong in god's eyes. If it were, he would have made some sort of mechanism to not allow it. But using condoms during sex prevents the a child from being born and defeats the purpose of the act.

Guy 2: What if I begin the act of intercourse with the intention of stopping before I reach climax? It was not my intention to reproduce from the start, I just wanted to have fun. None of god's gift was wasted.

Girl 1: If you didn't have the intention of reproducing it is still wrong.

Guy 2: What if my intention for doing homework was to only get a good grade and had no intention of actually learning anything?

Girl 1: Well that's your choice.

Guy 2: And that differs from having sex how?

Girl 1: Because homework and grades aren't on God's agenda.

Guy 2: What if I chose to never have sex or create children? Isn't refusing to engage in an act that utilizes the gift of reproduction, given to me by god, just as wrong?

Girl 1: No, that's your choice.

Guy 2: How is that different from using contraceptives? Both are improper uses of god's gift.

Girl 1: They just are. You are just being ignorant by not having sex, but are blantantly giving the finger to god if you wear condoms.

Guy 2: It scares me that you have the ability to vote.


* Not sure what the entire point of this post was, but it made me think of this thread.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 10:56:26 AM by Chino »

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2012, 10:20:51 AM »
That is a fantastic closer. :lol

Did you see my PM?
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Offline yeshaberto

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2012, 10:27:10 AM »
One of the core issues that Jesus confronted during his ministry was this problem of man-made rules posing as rules of God.  It is just as disturbing today as it was to him then.

Offline Chino

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2012, 10:30:34 AM »
That is a fantastic closer. :lol

Did you see my PM?

I did. It made perfect sense, lol.

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2012, 11:35:37 AM »
As a man, is it really so bad to be ignorant in that regard? I just don't see the harm in not knowing. I know it doesn't hurt to know.

Because you don't want to be an ignorant asshole:

Guy:  "Hey baby, I think we need to talk about something."
Girl:  "Is this the pill again?"
Guy:  "Yeah, it is.  Why can't you give me a straight answer?"
Girl:  "We talked about this.  I'm just not sure yet."
Guy:  "What's there to be sure about."
Girl:  "Only the fact that it completely changes my body chemistry."
Guy:  "And?"
Girl:  "Let me ask you this.  If they made a pill for guys, would you just take it?"
Guy:  "I don't know...  What if I got off the pill and I still shot blanks for the rest of my life?"
Girl:  "See?"
Guy:  "Look, I get what's really going on here.  You've locked yourself out of your car a couple times.  You, the woman in the relationship, actually forgot our one month anniversary.  If it's about remembering to take it, then-"
Girl:  "Oh my god..."
Guy:  "I'll text you daily reminders."
Girl:  "...That's it.  I'm going to your best friends house so I can get drunk and let him have his way with me."
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Re: Contraception
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2012, 02:25:13 AM »
https://ktar.com/6/1513927/Bill-allowing-employers-to-refuse-contraception-coverage-passes-AZ-House

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PHOENIX -- The same fight that took ahold of the U.S. Congress is now raging on at the Arizona Legislature. However, the difference is this one looks like it'll end with a different result.

Rep. Debbie Lesko (R-Glendale) is pushing House bill 2625, which would allow employers to opt out of covering contraception in their company's health insurance plans if they are morally or ethically opposed to the use of birth control for whatever reason.

The bill is patterned after the Blunt Amendment that failed to pass through the U.S. Congress earlier this year. The amendment and HB 2625 both fight the Federal Government mandate for businesses, regardless of their religious affiliation, to provide women with the option to get contraception in health insurance coverage plans.

"We live in America. We don't live in the Soviet Union," Lesko said. "The government shouldn't be telling mom-and- pop employers and religious organizations to do something that's against the moral or religious beliefs. It's just not right."

However, the bill is drawing fire from several groups, including the ACLU. Women's privacy issues aside, the ACLU is concerned that the bill could hurt religious liberty instead of defending it.

"This bill goes well beyond defending religious rights," Anjali Abraham, policy director for the Arizona ACLU, said. "It's not defending rights to religious liberty. It allows employers to prioritize their own rights over the beliefs and the needs of their employees."

The ACLU is also concerned that this will be a violation of women's rights. Women who need to use contraceptive for health reasons would still be allowed to ask for coverage. However, they would have to inform their employers of why.

"Women shouldn't have to say why they need the contraceptives. That's their business," Abraham said.

For her part, Lesko says she has run the bill by people who understand HIPPA regulations concerning doctor/patient confidentiality, and it has passed muster. She says her bill won't prevent women from getting contraception, it just won't allow them to get it using their company's health plan.

"You can get birth control pills for a cheap price at most any store," Lesko said. "The generic version will only run you about $9. Why should there be coverage if it's that's cheap?"

HB 2625 has passed the House. The same result is expected in the Senate.
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Offline SeRoX

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Re: Contraception
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2012, 06:21:05 AM »
Nevermind...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 06:35:46 AM by SeRoX »
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