Author Topic: The Parenting Thread  (Read 8104 times)

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Offline TempusVox

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #70 on: March 15, 2012, 01:18:23 PM »
Excellent post Orbert...I approve 100% of your parenting decisions here. Went through the same thing with my 14 year old son this year regarding girls...As the parent of a teenage boy I can tell you teen girls nowadays scare the hell out of me. They are sooo aggressive. My son has at least three upperclass girls who he has told repeatedly he has no interest in, and still they persist. I wasn't that strong. Ever. One girl in particular I have heard him tell over the phone at LEAST twice that he doesn't like her, and that he actually likes another girl, and she still texts him routinely telling him how much she loves him. She's a jr, he's a freshman. Holy crap!
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Offline Orbert

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #71 on: March 15, 2012, 02:30:04 PM »
Whoa!  There's being strong, and then there's... I'm not sure what.  But when I was a freshman, if I had upperclass girls calling me and professing their love... okay, it still depends on the girl, and more specifically what she looks like, but at that age, who's really that picky?

Thanks for the support.  I like to think I'm going about it the smart way, and the point of this thread was more to share my experience and maybe provide some amusement than to ask for advice.  But it's good to hear from others that, as far as they can tell, I'm doing things the right way. 

Offline pg1067

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #72 on: October 03, 2018, 03:25:33 PM »
Apologies for resurrecting this very old thread, but (1) Orbert's description of his daughter six years ago reminds me a little of mine now, and (2) I didn't think this was worth starting a new thread.

My daughter is a 14yo freshman, who will be 15 in January.  She's an honor student and plays in the marching band.  She's extremely responsible and, in a situation such as I'm about to describe, I trust her completely.

Anyway, she has never been to a concert (other than a couple of classical performances).  She is a big fan of Panic at the Disco, who is playing locally in February.  I bought my daughter tickets to the concert and intend to give them to her for her birthday (about six weeks before the show).  I bought two tickets and initially figured I would go with her.  I've heard PitD a few times, and they're not my cup of tea, but they seem fine, so I wouldn't hate it, but I think she'd have more fun going with someone else.  My thinking was that I would drop her off at the arena and go hang out at a nearby sports bar.

If I were the sole decision maker, that's what would happen, but I am, by far, the more lenient parent when it comes to stuff like this.  I haven't yet run this by my wife, but I wanted to get some outside opinions.  Anyone think I'm crazy for thinking of doing this?  If this were a metal or rap show, I might think differently, but PitD seems like a relatively "safe" situation, and she's got her own phone and what not, so if something went crazy, I could be there at the drop of a hat.

Appreciate any thoughts anyone might have -- especially from parents of daughters.
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Offline Podaar

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #73 on: October 03, 2018, 03:36:13 PM »
I'd say, talk with your wife first...but, yeah. Let her go with her friends.

Just don't read the Bill Hodges Trilogy in the meantime, especially Mr. Mercedes.
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Offline TAC

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #74 on: October 03, 2018, 03:42:59 PM »
It all comes down to the wife.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline bosk1

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #75 on: October 03, 2018, 03:47:43 PM »
I would be comfortable doing that if it were my 15 year old.  With a locator app on his cell phone, him there with a friend, me dropping off and picking up, and me being close by if anything happened, I would MORE than feel comfortable.  To me, that wouldn't change if he were a girl.  Pretty sure my wife would be okay with it too, although she would be a bit more hesitant than I would.  Obviously, it depends on the child though. 
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Offline pg1067

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #76 on: October 03, 2018, 04:53:51 PM »
Thanks guys.  Obviously, I have to talk with the wife about this, but I did want an objective assessment of whether I was way out of line.  Obviously, back when I was 15, this would've been no big deal, but.....
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Offline bosk1

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #77 on: October 03, 2018, 05:08:59 PM »
Yeah, I know what you mean.  My first concert, my buddy and I went to the Oakland Colosseum (now Oracle Arena where the Warriors play) when we were 13 and saw Kick Axe, Whitesnake, and Quiet Riot.  Our parents were like, "OK, see ya'.  Make sure you check the BART and bus schedules so you can get home and not spend the night on the sidewalk in Oakland, because we're not going all the way out there to get you.  Have fun!"  :lol

We're a far cry from that nowadays, but I don't think your proposal is out of line at all.  I guess I might have a bit more trepidation about your plan if it was my daughter and not my son.  But not much.  If anything, I might just want her to go with a slightly bigger group of 3 or 4 instead of 2.  But, again, you'll be close by, and she has a phone.  Not a huge deal unless you suspect her of doing something she shouldn't, which it does not sound like she has a history of doing.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #78 on: October 03, 2018, 05:12:18 PM »
Eh, I went to my first show unchaperoned at 13 and look how I turned out.  :biggrin:
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Offline Orbert

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #79 on: October 03, 2018, 05:12:48 PM »
You know your daughter.  Unless you're an idiot (which I don't think you are), you are a good judge of her character, character that you yourself have had a large part in building.  Honor student and in the marching band, to me, are two big points in her favor.  Marching band is a time commitment, and being an honor student means she has smarts as well.  My guess is that she's more mature than most of her peers, and presumably that translates to having good judgement as well.

And let's face it, band kids in general are good kids.  I was a band kid all through junior high and high school, and those were absolutely the best times, the times I look back on fondly when someone mentions "the happiest days of our lives" (which you never hear anymore, but whatever).  We had a lot of fun, but it was all good clean fun.

This is an opportunity to show her that you trust her, trust her judgement, and trust her choice of friends.  She will want to prove to you that this trust is not unwarranted.  Deep down, most kids want to make their parents happy, impress them, show them how awesome they are.  Yes, some will take the occasional opportunity to abuse this trust, even good kids.  And unfortunately, if they manage to do that, and get away with it, then they've learned that they can get away with it, and if it turned out good (for them), then they're more likely to try it again.  That's why you have to move slowly, take small steps.  Follow up afterwards, too.  The more she knows you care, the more she knows you really love her, and the more likely she'll want to make you proud and be a good girl.

Offline pg1067

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #80 on: October 03, 2018, 05:16:00 PM »
We're a far cry from that nowadays, but I don't think your proposal is out of line at all.  I guess I might have a bit more trepidation about your plan if it was my daughter and not my son.  But not much.  If anything, I might just want her to go with a slightly bigger group of 3 or 4 instead of 2.  But, again, you'll be close by, and she has a phone.  Not a huge deal unless you suspect her of doing something she shouldn't, which it does not sound like she has a history of doing.

Yeah...she's super responsible, and the worst thing she's every done is not picking up her room or doing dishes.  The bigger group thing makes sense, but ticket prices being what they are, I wasn't going to get more than two.


You know your daughter.  Unless you're an idiot (which I don't think you are), you are a good judge of her character, character that you yourself have had a large part in building.  Honor student and in the marching band, to me, are two big points in her favor.  Marching band is a time commitment, and being an honor student means she has smarts as well.  My guess is that she's more mature than most of her peers, and presumably that translates to having good judgement as well.

And let's face it, band kids in general are good kids.  I was a band kid all through junior high and high school, and those were absolutely the best times, the times I look back on fondly when someone mentions "the happiest days of our lives" (which you never hear anymore, but whatever).  We had a lot of fun, but it was all good clean fun.

This is an opportunity to show her that you trust her, trust her judgement, and trust her choice of friends.  She will want to prove to you that this trust is not unwarranted.  Deep down, most kids want to make their parents happy, impress them, show them how awesome they are.  Yes, some will take the occasional opportunity to abuse this trust, even good kids.  And unfortunately, if they manage to do that, and get away with it, then they've learned that they can get away with it, and if it turned out good (for them), then they're more likely to try it again.  That's why you have to move slowly, take small steps.  Follow up afterwards, too.  The more she knows you care, the more she knows you really love her, and the more likely she'll want to make you proud and be a good girl.

All good thoughts, and thanks.  In fact, we just told her yesterday that we really like everyone she's chosen as a friend, and all of the marching band kids are really cool.  The marching band season will be done before Christmas, so I figure by January she'll be looking for things to do with all her free time!
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Offline bosk1

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #81 on: October 03, 2018, 05:24:47 PM »
Eh, I went to my first show unchaperoned at 13 and look how I turned out.  :biggrin:

Good Lord.  Um, PG, you might want to rethink the plan.
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Offline TAC

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #82 on: October 03, 2018, 06:00:54 PM »
When I was that age, usually one of my friend's parents would drop us off and my father would pick us up, or my father would do double duty. We had a spot across the street from the Providence Civic Center that we'd meet. Sure enough, when the place emptied out, there he would be standing there. This was 84/85, way before cell phones.

I could always count on my father and I know it's trivial (the concert thing), but it is one of my most valued memories of him.
(If that all sounds somber, he is still alive)
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
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Offline Orbert

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #83 on: October 03, 2018, 09:08:34 PM »
That's cool that your dad would drive you to and/or from concerts.  I'm not sure if it was because my parents were against them but still wanted me to be able to enjoy myself, or they were trying to teach me to take more responsibility myself, or whatever, but I was allowed to go to concerts, but every single time, it was 100% up to me to find a way there and back.  Friend's parents, or a taxi, or a couple of times we ended up walking home.  I could go, but they were not providing any transportation or other support.  And it goes without saying that I bought the tickets myself.  Of course, this was back in the 70's when concert tickets cost five dollars, but still.  That was a week's lunch money at the time.

Also, back to the topic of pg's daughter going to see Panic!, let's all remember that things were different back in the day, and it's different still for boys than girls.  I let my son and his friends go do stuff in junior high, but with my daughter, I need to a lot more information (as in the original post).  She's 20 now, a junior in college and living in an apartment off campus with two other girls.  So we did it (mostly).  She's out in the world, fending for herself, hopefully doing as well as she is because of the way her mother and I prepared her for life.  But she knows that she can call (or text) any time to ask us anything.  And she does.  It's not like you turn 18 and that's the end of parental support.  I can't go back and live my life again, knowing everything I do now, but I can hopefully make things a little easier for my kids by sharing what I've learned.  She's usually eager to listen to take any advice offerred.  Our son, not so much. :p But what can you do?

Offline Stadler

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #84 on: October 04, 2018, 06:18:27 AM »
Thanks guys.  Obviously, I have to talk with the wife about this, but I did want an objective assessment of whether I was way out of line.  Obviously, back when I was 15, this would've been no big deal, but.....

Brother, I've DONE this.  Exact same band, actually.   My daughter went to the PATD show here in Hartford - I think Fallout Boy was the other band - with her friends, and it was exactly as you described.  I dropped them off, picked them up, and stayed in the general area. 

Look, it's not as if you can 100% rule out any bad things happening, but - and this depends on the kid, and I don't know your kid - in my situation, I found the more trust I gave, the more I got back in return.  I just had to make it clear that "trust" doesn't mean "do whatever the f*** you want and don't bother me!"   I'm more a stealth dad; I'm asking how the show was.  I'm asking "what songs did you like".   I'm taking an interest (that I don't really share, to be honest, though the guy from PATD sings a kick-ass version of Bohemian Rhapsody) and trying at least to make it a little harder for her to ditch the show at the front gate and sit in the parking lot all show.

Offline Stadler

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #85 on: October 04, 2018, 06:27:56 AM »
You know your daughter.  Unless you're an idiot (which I don't think you are), you are a good judge of her character, character that you yourself have had a large part in building.  Honor student and in the marching band, to me, are two big points in her favor.  Marching band is a time commitment, and being an honor student means she has smarts as well.  My guess is that she's more mature than most of her peers, and presumably that translates to having good judgement as well.

And let's face it, band kids in general are good kids.  I was a band kid all through junior high and high school, and those were absolutely the best times, the times I look back on fondly when someone mentions "the happiest days of our lives" (which you never hear anymore, but whatever).  We had a lot of fun, but it was all good clean fun.

A guy on my floor for my first couple years at Uconn was a band guy; they were fairly clean in terms of drugs and stuff but man oh man.   Talk about sowing wild oats.  To hear him tell it, the Uconn marching band circa the late '80's was a moving circus of sex.  I think there were a significant number of high school "band nerds" that, well, found college to be their own personal "band camp".   :) :) :)

Quote
This is an opportunity to show her that you trust her, trust her judgement, and trust her choice of friends.  She will want to prove to you that this trust is not unwarranted.  Deep down, most kids want to make their parents happy, impress them, show them how awesome they are.  Yes, some will take the occasional opportunity to abuse this trust, even good kids.  And unfortunately, if they manage to do that, and get away with it, then they've learned that they can get away with it, and if it turned out good (for them), then they're more likely to try it again.  That's why you have to move slowly, take small steps.  Follow up afterwards, too.  The more she knows you care, the more she knows you really love her, and the more likely she'll want to make you proud and be a good girl.

I agree with this 100%, and thus my last paragraph above.   I don't think you can really prevent all misdemeanors without also snuffing out some of the things that make our kids special, but like Orbert says I think you can send the message that they are not going to go unnoticed.  I can't speak for anyone else, but that has led to a fairly decent relationship with my kid, and a sort of trust that we're going to allow her to find her wings as long as she doesn't try to fly off the reservation. 

One other point:  I don't know you well, but you do like music enough to waste a ton of time on a band fan-forum, and I know for me, music is a big part of my life.  She sees the guitars around the house, she sees the CDs on the wall downstairs... for me to then put the kibosh on a concert is sort of a message in and of itself, and not a positive one.   My ex was/is the stringent one too (unnecessarily so, I might add; her and her new husband are sort of trying to "fix past mistakes" by battening down the hatches with my daughter) and I told her that this is like driving a car; you let them do it, but with limits. 

Online Indiscipline

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #86 on: October 04, 2018, 07:10:50 AM »
Do step-daughters count? I guess they do.

I married her mother when the kid was 14 (but I've known the lass and big-brothered her since she was 8, being my wife my stage partner and close friend well before we fell in love) and one of the very first things I did when we moved together was buying her two concert tickets of her choice for her birthday. It was Green Day, and it slightly pained me, but that's not the point. Her mother wanted to kill me on the spot, and she may have been right. I drove her and her friend to the venue sharing my teenage concerts war stories and some honest advice , spent a couple hours watching a game inside a pub, and came back to pick'em up asking questions like a madman.

It was tough, but - imo - you've got to let them learn to fly before they have to fly.

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« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 07:31:53 AM by Indiscipline »

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #87 on: October 04, 2018, 07:25:14 AM »
As the father of a 3 year old daughter, this thread makes me nervous for the future.  :lol

Offline Stadler

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #88 on: October 04, 2018, 07:30:23 AM »
As the father of a 3 year old daughter, this thread makes me nervous for the future.  :lol

And this subject isn't even top 10, in my humble opinion.   We haven't even hinted at the biggest demon of all: social media. 

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #89 on: October 04, 2018, 07:36:01 AM »
As the father of a 3 year old daughter, this thread makes me nervous for the future.  :lol

And this subject isn't even top 10, in my humble opinion.   We haven't even hinted at the biggest demon of all: social media.

Eh, it really scares me to think what the social media culture will look like in 10 years or so when my daughter is a teen.

Offline pg1067

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #90 on: October 04, 2018, 10:46:35 AM »
Thanks guys.  Obviously, I have to talk with the wife about this, but I did want an objective assessment of whether I was way out of line.  Obviously, back when I was 15, this would've been no big deal, but.....

Brother, I've DONE this.  Exact same band, actually.   My daughter went to the PATD show here in Hartford - I think Fallout Boy was the other band - with her friends, and it was exactly as you described.  I dropped them off, picked them up, and stayed in the general area. 

Look, it's not as if you can 100% rule out any bad things happening, but - and this depends on the kid, and I don't know your kid - in my situation, I found the more trust I gave, the more I got back in return.  I just had to make it clear that "trust" doesn't mean "do whatever the f*** you want and don't bother me!"   I'm more a stealth dad; I'm asking how the show was.  I'm asking "what songs did you like".   I'm taking an interest (that I don't really share, to be honest, though the guy from PATD sings a kick-ass version of Bohemian Rhapsody) and trying at least to make it a little harder for her to ditch the show at the front gate and sit in the parking lot all show.

Thanks.  I had a feeling I could count on you for some wisdom here.  And the whole talking about what interests her and taking some interest in it (which several have mentioned) is crucial.

Just to be clear, by the way, this isn't about me trusting or not trusting my kid.  That's not an issue for me (or for the wife).  I'm just making sure I'm not completely out of line think it's ok (i.e., safe) to let her do this without adult supervision.  Part of my think has to do with the fact that the show will be at the Pond in Anaheim, so there are several very close places I can hang out.  If the show were at Staples Center, I'd be ok with that too because it's part of a larger entertainment complex (although not as good an area overall).  If the show were at the Forum in Inglewood, I probably wouldn't even consider this.


You know your daughter.  Unless you're an idiot (which I don't think you are), you are a good judge of her character, character that you yourself have had a large part in building.  Honor student and in the marching band, to me, are two big points in her favor.  Marching band is a time commitment, and being an honor student means she has smarts as well.  My guess is that she's more mature than most of her peers, and presumably that translates to having good judgement as well.

And let's face it, band kids in general are good kids.  I was a band kid all through junior high and high school, and those were absolutely the best times, the times I look back on fondly when someone mentions "the happiest days of our lives" (which you never hear anymore, but whatever).  We had a lot of fun, but it was all good clean fun.

A guy on my floor for my first couple years at Uconn was a band guy; they were fairly clean in terms of drugs and stuff but man oh man.   Talk about sowing wild oats.  To hear him tell it, the Uconn marching band circa the late '80's was a moving circus of sex.  I think there were a significant number of high school "band nerds" that, well, found college to be their own personal "band camp".   :) :) :)

Did I mention my kid plays flute....  sigh....


As the father of a 3 year old daughter, this thread makes me nervous for the future.  :lol

And this subject isn't even top 10, in my humble opinion.   We haven't even hinted at the biggest demon of all: social media. 

Yup.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #91 on: October 04, 2018, 10:53:58 AM »
Not a parent so I can't really... chime in.

But it does make me feel spoiled that in my teen years, I never had a "Chaperone" for a concert. Most of the concerts I went to were with my close friends and close enough for me to walk home from (or a 10 min drive for my mom / stepdad)... and / or I was there with my best friend and there was some form of parent there... but as a fan of the show, not just to supervise us.



This was in the mid 2000s. God I am young compared to some of y'all
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline Stadler

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #92 on: October 04, 2018, 11:02:43 AM »

Thanks.  I had a feeling I could count on you for some wisdom here.  And the whole talking about what interests her and taking some interest in it (which several have mentioned) is crucial.

Just to be clear, by the way, this isn't about me trusting or not trusting my kid.  That's not an issue for me (or for the wife).  I'm just making sure I'm not completely out of line think it's ok (i.e., safe) to let her do this without adult supervision.  Part of my think has to do with the fact that the show will be at the Pond in Anaheim, so there are several very close places I can hang out.  If the show were at Staples Center, I'd be ok with that too because it's part of a larger entertainment complex (although not as good an area overall).  If the show were at the Forum in Inglewood, I probably wouldn't even consider this.

Thank you for the kind words; it means a lot (sincerely).

I think I got you the first time though; it's still the same.  The big venue here is the Xfinity Center in Hartford, and it's literally in the worst section of the City, albeit separated from the residential parts by a train yard and the highway.   But still...   Pearl Jam thanked (sarcastically, to be sure) the Hartford Police in their "Live On Two Legs" album because at their show on that tour, the police layered the lawn with tear gas (I was at that show and it was crazy). So I agree it's more about the circumstances than the kid, but I still sort of hang on the same advice.  I'm not suggesting that we let our kids go buy crack on their own in the projects, but I also don't want her to live scared.   To me it was a lesson in doing reasonable things in a way that is smart circa 2018 (lord knows, all I had to worry about was being sold a bogus ticket outside, or having someone boost my wallet in the crowd before the show). 

Full disclosure though:  I took her to see Kiss and Def Leppard at that same venue the summer before and while I didn't plan that on purpose, it gave me a means of talking her through the evening.  "Hey, if you're going to hang in the parking lot, stick with the lower lot; if you're going to hang outside the venue, at least go through the ticket line and hang in the courtyard", that kind of thing.   

Offline Orbert

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And then there's my son
« Reply #93 on: October 05, 2018, 12:23:16 PM »
And then, at the other end of the spectrum, there's my son.

Might as well turn this into a generic Parenting thread.  I think I'll go back and change the thread title (if I can).


My son is 26 years old and still lives at home with my wife and me, but there's a light at the end of the tunnel.  He and some of his friends are preparing to move out of their respective homes and into a house together.  This is a moment I've been looking forward to for 26 years.

So of course, my wife and I managed to get into an argument about it this morning while I was trying to leave for work.  I see a kid moving out as a major milestone, probably the major milestone of parenting.  Our job is to prepare them to be functioning adults, self-sufficient in all the important ways.  Moving out, paying your own bills, managing your own finances, buying your own food, getting your ass out of bed and to work/school on time, basically doing all the things that Mommy and Daddy used to do, that is what makes you an adult.  Not some arbitrary recognition of surviving 18 years on the planet.  We had a job to do, a huge one, and we've done it.  This is something to celebrate!

My wife sees this as a "loss" of some kind.  It saddens her that her child will no longer be in her care.  When he told her that he probably won't be in contact a whole lot, at least for the first couple of months, she didn't take it well.  Why can't he call her once a week, just to let her know how he's doing?  His sister does.  Hell, at this point, he hasn't even shared the address, even though he knows it.  He's told us the general geographic location, the neighborhood where the house is located.  That's good enough for me.  My wife wants to know exactly where he will be.  Sorry dear, but he's 26.  It is no longer any of your business exactly where he is at any particular time.

I told her that's it's completely normal.  A young man striking out on his own has achieved independence.  He no longer needs his parents to feed and clothe him or wipe his ass for him, so why should he call them for no reason?  A young woman moving out, from what I can tell, faces more anxiety and uncertainty.  Not just because the world is generally more dangerous for women, but the idea of doing everything by yourself is not necessarily a positive thing.  Forgive the obvious sexism here, and yeah it's a generalization, but it is also generally true.  That's why it's called a generalization.  Because, in general, it is true.  Guys want to be their own person, independent, lone wolves.  Girls, not necessarily.

So anyway, I defended our son's right to not have to call his mommy once a week to "check in" with her, and maybe get together for holidays and birthdays and stuff, but otherwise live his life like... an adult!  I don't call my dad once a week, and I didn't call my mom once a week back when she was alive.  Wife pointed out that my sisters did and still do.  She and her sister did.  Did her brother?  No.  Did my brother?  I don't have any brothers.  Correct!  So in our small sample pool, all the females called, and none of the males did.

But her family is weird and I'm a self-absorbed asshole.  True, and true.  But I still think it's perfectly normal, I would think it's part of the natural separation process, for a young man to establish some "distance" between himself and his parents, socially if not geographically, at least at first.  Then after a while, you fall into the new version of the relationship, which is between adults who happen to be parent and child.  This seems 100% natural and correct to me.  She says it's not natural at all, that a child should always want to keep in contact with their parents.  The examples we'd just gone over seconds earlier apparently have no bearing on that.  I told her that it's different for guys.  She told me to go to work.  I told her to do some research.

And since I'm so certain of it, maybe I should do some research, too.  But... I'm right, right?

Offline bosk1

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Re: So... it has begun (parenting thing)
« Reply #94 on: October 05, 2018, 12:30:54 PM »
And since I'm so certain of it, maybe I should do some research, too.  But... I'm right, right?

In general, yeah.  But that's, like, a generalization, man.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: And then there's my son
« Reply #95 on: October 05, 2018, 12:39:02 PM »
And since I'm so certain of it, maybe I should do some research, too.  But... I'm right, right?

Wow, you're a self-absorbed asshole.   But then again, her family is weird. 


I'm kidding; my life sort of followed your track.  I moved out and I WENT, all the way to California.  I stayed in touch, but it wasn't as if every day before bed I'd call home. 

I talk to my dad now about twice a week, but that's a frequency that has increased a lot since he retired and is now 80 and listening to Fox News all day.  I think you have to let these things find their rhythm.   At the end of the day, it's three adults, each with their own ideas on how to interrelate.

I know from dealing with my stepson, he grew up exponentially (and in a good way) when he moved out, and his relationship with his mom got even BETTER when he joined the Army and sort of put a little space in between.  It was healthy for both. 

Offline pg1067

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Re: And then there's my son
« Reply #96 on: October 05, 2018, 12:43:33 PM »
And then, at the other end of the spectrum, there's my son.

Your son sounds a little like me.  I lived with my mother until I was 25 (my father died when I was young).  I probably could have moved out a few years earlier, but it was a comfortable situation.  I'm the youngest of five kids, so my mom didn't have any real detachment issues when I moved out.  Of course, I brought my laundry for her to do on a weekly basis, so it wasn't like we didn't communicate.

As far as sons versus daughters, though, I think the issue is that -- as a GENERAL matter -- women/girls are FAR more inclined to get on the phone and just talk.  Pretty much every guy I've ever known (myself included) calls for a specific purpose, accomplishes that purpose, and then hangs up.  Women/girls on the other hand....

On my end, my son (16) is (at least at the moment) planning to enlist in the Air Force after he graduates high school.  The argument I foresee happening is what we do with his bedroom once he moves out (after a deep cleaning and sterilization, of course).
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Offline Orbert

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Re: So... it has begun -- now The Parenting Thread
« Reply #97 on: October 05, 2018, 02:39:56 PM »
And then, at the other end of the spectrum, there's my son.
As far as sons versus daughters, though, I think the issue is that -- as a GENERAL matter -- women/girls are FAR more inclined to get on the phone and just talk.  Pretty much every guy I've ever known (myself included) calls for a specific purpose, accomplishes that purpose, and then hangs up.

Exactly.  And that's why, when she pointed out that my sisters do it, and she and her sister did it, I pointed out that I never did, neither did her brother (actually I asked, but I already knew the answer and thought it might carry more weight coming from her own mouth), and therefore I don't expect our son to do it.

I suppose I get it, really.  It's not that she doesn't understand this, and deep down, she's gotta realize that he's not gonna call, but she's still sad about him moving out (and it probably doesn't help that I'm practically celebrating it already) and just doesn't want to face it.  She's "losing" her little boy.  The one who doesn't even talk to her now more than "What, you didn't get me anything?" when she comes home with some Taco Bell and his lazy ass has been upstairs playing video games instead of going out and getting his own damned food.

As much as I've looked forward to him moving out, I'm already looking forward to the point where our social dynamic has stabilized.  I always look to nature, specifically other mammals, for how things "naturally" work, and there are countless examples.  If the young males don't leave on their own, the mom or dad literally chase them off, physically attacking them if necessary.  This manifests in humans as the fights that often precede separation.  There will be tension, but it has to happen this way.

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: And then there's my son
« Reply #98 on: October 05, 2018, 02:54:07 PM »

And since I'm so certain of it, maybe I should do some research, too.  But... I'm right, right?

You are right. And I stand behind you 100%. And nothing you said was sexist.

The "natural" thing for a young man to do is to want to leave the nest and create his own live. At 26 I wanted to left alone. As I got older I would stay in touch with family a little bit more, but at 26 I just wanted to live my own life, period. End of story. And when problems came up, I felt good about myself as a man when I was able to face those problems on my own and solve them as an independent adult.

Your son is lucky to have a father in his life. Many children today do not and I grew up without one. If I had someone like you in my corner growing up, I would have been much better off. I can tell you that. 

To re-iterate, you are in the right and are exemplifying the qualities of a competent and loving father.


Offline Orbert

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Re: So... it has begun -- now The Parenting Thread
« Reply #99 on: October 05, 2018, 04:05:05 PM »
Thanks.

Since I'm at work, it turns out that my "research" has (so far, and perhaps entirely) consisted of asking DTF, with some pretty leading questions.  So confirmation bias, but since I was already pretty sure that that is how it works for guys, and that it is indeed different for girls, this works for me. :)

Offline Skeever

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Re: The Parenting Thread
« Reply #100 on: October 11, 2018, 11:30:24 AM »
I'm in my 30s and I call my Mom at least 2-3 times per week. It's good to check in with your parents, and I enjoy hearing about what they're doing, and they like hearing about my life. There's nothing "unmanly" about it. I usually wind up talking to my Dad when I call, too. It's rare that I actually seem them more than once every 1-2 months.

Frankly, not just playing Devil's advocate here, I'd be a little concerned if my offspring were moving away and refused to share his address or just provide even a cordial "yeah, of course I'll call". Sounds to me like there are possibly some unaddressed issues there. My Dad and my Brother have those kind of issues, which neither ever have addressed with each other. Must be tough to go on living so long wondering if everything's alright between you and someone you typically would care most about.


Offline Orbert

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Re: The Parenting Thread
« Reply #101 on: October 11, 2018, 12:53:55 PM »
Yeah, that would suck.  But it's rarely a permanent situation.  If kids come from an abusive home, then I wouldn't be surprised that most of them move out and never look back.  Why would they seek contact with the one(s) they're trying to escape?

But in general, kids move out, establish their own lives, then fall into a "new" relationship with their parents; one of adults who happen to be related as parent and offspring, rather than the role of child and primary caregiver/caretaker (interesting how though two words mean essentially the same thing -- I've never noticed that before).

Our son has specifically mentioned that his friends who've moved out all say that their relationships with their parents improved after they moved, and that he looks forward to that.  So do I.  But as for not even saying he'll call, I completely understand.  My wife has been, IMO, ridiculous about the whole thing, insisting that he keep in contact, wanting to come see the new place, all that.  He is an adult and this is not what he wants, but she will not accept that.  In time, he would come around.  That's normal.  But the more she pushes, the more she rags on him about it, the more inclined he is to push back, and I completely understand that.  I'm sure he would have eventually given us his phone number and address; it simply doesn't make sense not to.  But once he told us he and his buddies had found a place, one of the first things out of her mouth was "Okay, give us the address and phone number."  Not a request, a demand.  100% the wrong approach, and she should have known that, having known the kid for 26 years.  But she started right off with the demands, and it just set everything off on the wrong foot.

Offline Skeever

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Re: The Parenting Thread
« Reply #102 on: October 11, 2018, 01:40:08 PM »
Eek, yeah, that seems to be really overbearing, in that case, it's not surprise the reaction is what it is. 

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Re: The Parenting Thread
« Reply #103 on: October 13, 2018, 08:37:14 PM »
I’m guessing when this thread dies that I’ll be resurrecting it in 6 years... my kid turns 8 at the end of the month...
I don’t know what to put here anymore