New Wikileaks shows Pakistan's ISI knew about Osama's hideout

[7StringedBeast]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/9109457/Stratfor-Osama-bin-Laden-was-in-routine-contact-with-Pakistans-spy-agency.html

This does not surprise me in the slightest.  Fucking Pakistan.

[jsem]

Ugh. This just keeps on developing.

[bosk1]

I hate wikileaks, but...did anyone really NOT think this was a significant possibility?

[wolfandwolfandwolf]

I hate wikileaks, but...did anyone really NOT think this was a significant possibility?

This.  I mean, news media was all but reporting this as fact.

[El Barto]

I hate wikileaks, but...did anyone really NOT think this was a significant possibility?

We all suspected it.  This actually confirms it, though, and that's a big difference. 

And I for one love wikileaks.  Here's hoping they keep 'em coming.  And we're only two days into the Stratfor dump; still plenty of things left to discover there.

[bosk1]

I hate wikileaks, but...did anyone really NOT think this was a significant possibility?

We all suspected it.  This actually confirms it, though, and that's a big difference. 

Oh, I understand completely.  My reaction is simply to the fact that some seem surprised.

[Chino]

I love fact that Wikileaks does stuff like this. The citizens of the world have the right to know things.

[kirksnosehair]

Why is it that, generally, people who lean conservative hate WikiLeaks and people who lean liberal love it?

[El Barto]

Why is it that, generally, people who lean conservative hate WikiLeaks and people who lean liberal love it?

It's a tangential thing.  It's not conservatives and liberals.  The people who dislike WL tend to be the ones gung-ho for national security, who normally align with the Right. 

[antigoon]

mmmmm I love when WikiLeaks.

[hefdaddy42]

Well, I lean liberal, but I hate wikileaks.

[Rathma]

Wikileaks makes me wet.

[rumborak]

Well, I lean liberal, but I hate wikileaks.

Same here actually.

While I personally of course love the feeling of getting such information, I also see the effect of diplomats having their hands tied from here on. As Stratfor pointed out, this was a great bargaining chip against Pakistan with which the US could force concessions. Now that it's all in the open that bargaining chip is out the window.

rumborak

[kirksnosehair]

Why is it that, generally, people who lean conservative hate WikiLeaks and people who lean liberal love it?

It's a tangential thing.  It's not conservatives and liberals.  The people who dislike WL tend to be the ones gung-ho for national security, who normally align with the Right.

hmm, yeah, maybe you're right. 

[lonestar]

[El Barto]

Well, I lean liberal, but I hate wikileaks.

Same here actually.

While I personally of course love the feeling of getting such information, I also see the effect of diplomats having their hands tied from here on. As Stratfor pointed out, this was a great bargaining chip against Pakistan with which the US could force concessions. Now that it's all in the open that bargaining chip is out the window.

rumborak

I don't see it tying any hands.  It'll prompt people to be more careful about how they handle their intel, but that's about it.  Between tightened material handling procedures, and the Obama administration giving whistleblowers the Ethel and Julius Rosenberg treatment,  I suspect it's probably a self correcting problem.

There's also the notion that it's not just the US that'll have to be dealing with such things. 

That said, it's interesting to try and compare damage done vs. benefit gained.  Wikileaks and Bradly Manning probably have more to do with ending the war in Iraq than anybody, and that buys WL a tremendous amount of good will in my book.

[Scheavo]

Well, I lean liberal, but I hate wikileaks.

Same here actually.

While I personally of course love the feeling of getting such information, I also see the effect of diplomats having their hands tied from here on. As Stratfor pointed out, this was a great bargaining chip against Pakistan with which the US could force concessions. Now that it's all in the open that bargaining chip is out the window.

rumborak

Hands tied, from doing what? If there wasn't a story to report, then wikileaks wouldn't have anything to report, or at least it's reporting wouldn't matter.

Besides, is using this as a bargaining chip to force concessions truly the best diplomatic strategy for us to take in the region? Why is it acceptable for us to basically perform blackmail against a country? That might just create more hatred on the other side, might just make things worse in the long run. Not like it actually changes anything other than public opinion, Pakistan was basically harboring Osama Bin Laden, we're pretty much at war with part of their country, and we're propping up another part, because of nuclear material.

It's a fucked up situation, and it's sorta sad that the discussion in the national media is about Iran.

[rumborak]

Besides, is using this as a bargaining chip to force concessions truly the best diplomatic strategy for us to take in the region? Why is it acceptable for us to basically perform blackmail against a country? That might just create more hatred on the other side, might just make things worse in the long run. Not like it actually changes anything other than public opinion, Pakistan was basically harboring Osama Bin Laden, we're pretty much at war with part of their country, and we're propping up another part, because of nuclear material.

Yeah, but it's overly simplistic to separate the world into friend or foe. The US, in order to pursue its interest in the region (that being, combating international terrorism) need partners in the region. Israel is useless in that regard, so the pickings are slim. Pakistan is still the "best" of them all, so getting out of them what we want/need is a question of diplomacy and dealings behind closed doors.

rumborak

[jsem]

Wikileaks is very good, it highlights the horrors of foreign affairs. But it can also harm things when there are peaceful diplomatic transactions going on, or persuasion.

One of the GREAT victories of the Bush admin. was to convince Khadaffi not to pursue his WMD program further - it was done all diplomatically. What if WikiLeaks had published some internal Washington crap and hindered that process?

There's good things and bad things.

[snapple]

I don't hate wikileaks. I don't really see a need to know some of the things. How does it change your lives?

[XJDenton]

Wikileaks has great potential but to be honest so far I think they have been damn irresponsible with some of the stuff they have published.

[rumborak]

The problem is I think it's a bunch of people who are drunk on the power they have.

rumborak

[snapple]

I just assume shady shit is going to happen. Expecting ANYONE to not do something wrong/shady etc. is incredibly naive on anyone's part. Therefore, I don't give that much of a shit of what's going on (in regards to what wikileaks is doing). First amendment, glad they're using it. But, I, personally, don't give two shits. Other than the cute little "The More You Know"'s I can get from it.

[SeRoX]

Nothing surprising. But I want to find myself saying this to Wikileaks: The More You Know. Nonetheless, I love their efforts to make everyone realize.

[slycordinator]

I just assume shady shit is going to happen. Expecting ANYONE to not do something wrong/shady etc. is incredibly naive on anyone's part. Therefore, I don't give that much of a shit of what's going on (in regards to what wikileaks is doing).

You do realize that the people who care about wikileaks also assume shady shit is going on, right? Not caring about the bad stuff uncovered doesn't follow from believing that there will be bad stuff.