Guns: Yay or nay?

[Chino]

It's not residual soot. I can't see how it would rub against the frame like that, so I'm sticking with the escaping gasses theory. I also don't know what kind of finish they use at the S&W factory. It could be Cerakoted or traditional bluing. From what I gather Cerakote is more prone to that happening.

I'm way late to this, but that stuff came off with some gun oil and a rag  Real easy.

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I'm in the market for a .22 and I'm limiting myself to $1000. I've narrowed it down to two:

1) S&W SW22 Performance Center Edition (modified trigger, red dot, carbon fiber barrel, larger mag-release button)


2) S&W Model 617


I'm leaning toward the 617 even though I think the SW22 is cool as shit. For one, it can accept pretty much any rimfire .22 whereas the SW22's magazine is limited. The 617 is also a K-frame, like my current revolver. My Model-19 costs me $200 every time I go to the range once you include lane fees. I'm paying $0.90-$0.94 per round for .38 special whereas .22LR is under $0.40. The 617 is near identical in weight and length (assuming 4" barrel) to my Model 19, so I'm thinking it'd be wise to get that for the sake of practice and proficiency.

The 617 looks so damn sexy though.

Opinions welcome

[El Barto]

Depends on what you're using it for. If you want it for serious training then I'd suggest whatever's closest to your regular gun. If you're buying it for fun I'd go with different options. I know two people who are fond of the Kel-Tec CP33 22LR, which sports a 33rd magazine. As AR owners will tell you, firing off 30rds in a big hurry is a lot of fun. Speaking of, you could also consider a rifle. The venerable 10-22 is always a popular choice, and you can also slap high capacity mags in those. You can also by target/competition versions of them. You could also buy an AR platform rifle in .22, if you want to feel like John Rambo.

Another advantage of the rifle (which might or might not apply to a pistol) is that you can buy subsonic ammo and make the thing whisper quiet. Not like movie pew-pew quiet, but about the same as a pellet gun.

[gmillerdrake]

As AR owners will tell you, firing off 30rds in a big hurry is a lot of fun.

Too much fun and way too expensive 

You could also buy an AR platform rifle in .22, if you want to feel like John Rambo.

My buddy has one and it's super fun to shoot, and great for the kids to learn and practice with.

[Phoenix87x]

Its always blows my mind how fast I go through a full magazine at the range.

I started just loading like 5 rounds into the magazine at time, just to enjoy more time there and save money too.

[ReaPsTA]

I'm in the market for a .22 and I'm limiting myself to $1000. I've narrowed it down to two:

1) S&W SW22 Performance Center Edition (modified trigger, red dot, carbon fiber barrel, larger mag-release button)


2) S&W Model 617


I'm leaning toward the 617 even though I think the SW22 is cool as shit. For one, it can accept pretty much any rimfire .22 whereas the SW22's magazine is limited. The 617 is also a K-frame, like my current revolver. My Model-19 costs me $200 every time I go to the range once you include lane fees. I'm paying $0.90-$0.94 per round for .38 special whereas .22LR is under $0.40. The 617 is near identical in weight and length (assuming 4" barrel) to my Model 19, so I'm thinking it'd be wise to get that for the sake of practice and proficiency.

The 617 looks so damn sexy though.

Opinions welcome

Did you already eliminate the Browning Buckmark in your narrowing process? Good shooter.

[Chino]

I hadn't come across that one. I like the aesthetics of some of those variants a lot. I'll watch a couple Youtube videos about them after work. Thanks!

[ReaPsTA]

yw

I'm not here that often these days but if you have questions and I see them I'll answer.

[Chino]

yw

I'm not here that often these days but if you have questions and I see them I'll answer.

Just got back from the store 

[CrimsonSunrise]

So happy to be free of the Cali gun laws.  Walked into a store around the corner from my new home here in SW Florida and walked out with a couple 40 round clips for my AR.  Next... 60 round drum   Actually felt weird going to the range with these clips...  about 20 rounds in and I was like... "Is this empty yet?" 

[ReaPsTA]

yw

I'm not here that often these days but if you have questions and I see them I'll answer.

Just got back from the store 

Damn dude. I even have the same grip and the gold trigger. Hope you enjoy!

[Chino]

Cheers. Thanks for the recommendation. Any tips, tricks, or pieces of advice with this one?


I went to the store to see what they had in stock, and the rep at the counter said he hadn't seen either of the two S&Ws I was interested in in months. I asked about the Buckmark and they had two in stock. I'm admittedly still fuzzy on how you differentiate which model is which as there appears to be about 18 variants  Do you mind me asking how much you paid for yours? This one was in the case for $539. The one next to it was $429. That one was all black, had a round barrel, a different rail, and smooth non-wooden grips. I remembered one of the reviews I read saying something like "If you have the money, spend it up front and get the better grips". So I did. I've had a laugh watching older reviews of guns I'm interested in. You'll find one from 2018 and they'll say "This gun will cost you around $449". That exact same model today is approaching the mid-600s.

I'll make the call after my first range day with it, but I'm not sure I'm going to keep the front sight. It's the same black as the rear sights, and I'm having a lot of trouble picking it up. Bed browsing on my phone last night, it looked like you could get a red/green fiber optic sight for $30 give or take. I'd like to throw a red dot on it at some point. Time to start reading up on rails and what not.



Kind of side-bar... Holy shit is 22LR cheap.

At the store I go to, 50 rounds of .38 special is anywhere from $42 -$49. I just got 500 rounds of 22LR for $40  I couldn't believe it. I knew there was a price difference. I didn't think one would be 1/10 the cost of the other. I was way off in my comment from a few days back.


I still want that 617 though. One day.   

[gmillerdrake]

Nice work Brian! That’ll be a fun fun to shoot. Especially as you’ve discovered how cheap it is to buy ammo for.

[ReaPsTA]

Cheers. Thanks for the recommendation. Any tips, tricks, or pieces of advice with this one?

One stupid one - If you turn the safety on pulling the trigger won't actually operate the action. Might be different with the newer guns, but I think dry firing 22LR still damages the gun, so I always store it with the safety on just in case.

I went to the store to see what they had in stock, and the rep at the counter said he hadn't seen either of the two S&Ws I was interested in in months. I asked about the Buckmark and they had two in stock. I'm admittedly still fuzzy on how you differentiate which model is which as there appears to be about 18 variants 

Yup the only thing I knew really mattered was the grip I knew I had to be flexible on everything else. I have the one that's blued with the gold trigger got lucky.

Do you mind me asking how much you paid for yours? This one was in the case for $539. The one next to it was $429.

Like 400 something? Prices are nuts these days.

That one was all black, had a round barrel, a different rail, and smooth non-wooden grips. I remembered one of the reviews I read saying something like "If you have the money, spend it up front and get the better grips". So I did.

Worth

I've had a laugh watching older reviews of guns I'm interested in. You'll find one from 2018 and they'll say "This gun will cost you around $449". That exact same model today is approaching the mid-600s.

Sadge

I'll make the call after my first range day with it, but I'm not sure I'm going to keep the front sight. It's the same black as the rear sights, and I'm having a lot of trouble picking it up. Bed browsing on my phone last night, it looked like you could get a red/green fiber optic sight for $30 give or take. I'd like to throw a red dot on it at some point. Time to start reading up on rails and what not.

The sight picture's not that bad to pick up but yeah they aren't the best.

Kind of side-bar... Holy shit is 22LR cheap.

At the store I go to, 50 rounds of .38 special is anywhere from $42 -$49. I just got 500 rounds of 22LR for $40  I couldn't believe it. I knew there was a price difference. I didn't think one would be 1/10 the cost of the other. I was way off in my comment from a few days back.

My dumb theory - It's not the best hunting or self-defense ammo so demand isn't quite the same way. I saw some prices for like, historical gun ammo recently and it wasn't that bad either. The real price crunch is on stuff like 9mm and 5.56, which is used by everyone for practical purposes.

I still want that 617 though. One day.

One day indeed.

[Chino]

When buying a replacement front sight, would I want a low or a high version to replace the factory on on the Buckman

https://tacticalsol.com/products.aspx?CAT=12588

[El Barto]

When buying a replacement front sight, would I want a low or a high version to replace the factory on on the Buckman

https://tacticalsol.com/products.aspx?CAT=12588

One's for a 4" barrel and the other's for a 5.5". Don't know what barrel you have, but if it's not the specific barrel listed for those sights I'd probably fire off an email to Browning. Typically sights are specific to weapons.

[Chino]

I feel like an idiot  I must have opened the wrong listing when I was comparing because it looked like they were all for the 5.5". That makes way more sense now.

Thanks 

[Chino]

I've ordered a couple things this week off three different gun websites (new front sight, extra magazines, speed loader thing, and a halo charging ring).

I have to say, the service on those sights is top notch. On all three, my orders shipped within 6 hours of placing them. I'm really impressed compared to a lot of the companies I've dealt with in other hobbies.

[Chino]

I went to the range last night to put the Buckmark through its paces. What a blast! My sister came with me (recently permitted) and I let her put a few magazines through it first while I shot a few cylinders of 357 mag with my model 19. When I finally tried out the Buckmark, I wasn't even sure if the thing fired  There was so little kick/recoil/sound compared to the revolver, I though for a second it misfired. The thing is incredibly accurate and grouped well right out of the box. I was very pleased.

As suspected, I was having a really hard time finding the front sight, and the problem was only exacerbated by the so-so lighting at the range I go to. I have a rail and a red dot arriving today, and I put a charging ring on it last night. I can't tell if I like it or not yet. I think I'm going to head back to the range on Saturday and zero it in.

Sidebar: Steel cased ammo. Anyone ever use it? I ordered a few hundred rounds of "TulAmmo" in .38special because it was half the price of the next cheapest brand at only $0.42 per round. I don't think I'm a fan. At least not of that particular brand's. It almost felt violent in the revolver. Lots of kick. Far more than the 357 I
 was using (different brand). Accuracy seemed to be garbage as well, even when using single-action. After two dozen rounds or so, I started having problems electing the casings out of the cylinder. I had to really force them out. It's the first time in 900+ rounds now that that's happened, and the problem didn't happen again when I switched back over to brass. I clean the gun after each use.

Is that a common problem when using steel cases in a revolver?

[Stadler]

I don't know about that specific problem, but brass is more forgiving, more malleable, than steel, so that might be some of it.  For lack of a better word, you're probably getting a better "fit" with the brass casings.   You might not see a difference in any short term time, but it's also my understanding that steel will, over time, wear your barrel more (same reason). 

[El Barto]

I went to the range last night to put the Buckmark through its paces. What a blast! My sister came with me (recently permitted) and I let her put a few magazines through it first while I shot a few cylinders of 357 mag with my model 19. When I finally tried out the Buckmark, I wasn't even sure if the thing fired  There was so little kick/recoil/sound compared to the revolver, I though for a second it misfired. The thing is incredibly accurate and grouped well right out of the box. I was very pleased.

As suspected, I was having a really hard time finding the front sight, and the problem was only exacerbated by the so-so lighting at the range I go to. I have a rail and a red dot arriving today, and I put a charging ring on it last night. I can't tell if I like it or not yet. I think I'm going to head back to the range on Saturday and zero it in.

Sidebar: Steel cased ammo. Anyone ever use it? I ordered a few hundred rounds of "TulAmmo" in .38special because it was half the price of the next cheapest brand at only $0.42 per round. I don't think I'm a fan. At least not of that particular brand's. It almost felt violent in the revolver. Lots of kick. Far more than the 357 I
 was using (different brand). Accuracy seemed to be garbage as well, even when using single-action. After two dozen rounds or so, I started having problems electing the casings out of the cylinder. I had to really force them out. It's the first time in 900+ rounds now that that's happened, and the problem didn't happen again when I switched back over to brass. I clean the gun after each use.

Is that a common problem when using steel cases in a revolver?

Some people have no issues with steel cased ammo and some people hate it. As for how it performs I think it comes down to the weapon. As Stadler will say, brass if far more forgiving than steel. I'm not sure why it'd be an issue with a revolver, but in semiautomatics it can be too hard for the extractor to get a grip on the casings. For my part, if that's what I can afford I've got no problem buying it. If the prices are more or less the same I'll go with brass. While I do recall some FTEs using cheap ammo, at the range that's not really such a bad thing. You need experience dealing with failures, too.

One thing I can tell you is that it shouldn't have any effect on the recoil. That sounds to me like Tul making hotter ammo than what you'd been using before (which is honestly kind of surprising). Check the numbers on the box. As for accuracy, that can be effected, but for the same reason as recoil. In truth, any time you switch ammo you'll see a difference in where your shots land. Sometimes a dramatic difference. At seven yards the grouping from my carry ammo was about 2 inches high left from my practice ammo. Tul being as cheap as it is (I've used plenty, along with Monarch--essentially the same thing), it's probably not loaded as precisely as you'd want. A variance in chamber pressure will cause all kinds of wild shit, including a different spin.

And you're still young enough to have good eyesight. Wait for that to go South on you and then see how hard it is to find sights you can deal with.  I had to put a damn laser on my Sig because neither high contrast nor night sights were standing out to me.

[ReaPsTA]

I went to the range last night to put the Buckmark through its paces. What a blast! My sister came with me (recently permitted) and I let her put a few magazines through it first while I shot a few cylinders of 357 mag with my model 19. When I finally tried out the Buckmark, I wasn't even sure if the thing fired  There was so little kick/recoil/sound compared to the revolver, I though for a second it misfired. The thing is incredibly accurate and grouped well right out of the box. I was very pleased.

Nice!

I ordered a few hundred rounds of "TulAmmo"

lol TulAmmo

[Chino]

I tried out a new range yesterday and zeroed in the red dot I purchased. I had a good time out and shot just over 1000 rounds in the time I was there. You guys were right... it's really easy to chew through 22   

Just out of curiosity, what do you guys typically pay for lane time? I usually go to an indoor range and it's $30 per hour or $40 for two people. This outdoor place was $39 for a day pass (only option). Both places offer annual memberships. $700 for indoor place and $535 for outdoor. The outdoor facility has 5 ranges (pistol, rifle, sniper rifle, shotgun, and indoor 22 only).

[Phoenix87x]

The indoor place I go to is $20 bucks an hour.

I had the full membership the first year I started shooting which was $350, and that was nice since you could get free rentals of anything and I was able to try out a whole bunch of guns.



 

[El Barto]

Mine's $20/day, which seems about normal for Dallas. You can buy silver or gold memberships, which cut the rage fee either to $12.5 or free, for $200 or $500. I came across this place because somebody bought me a silver membership for Christmas. The Walker Texas Ranger gun range is $25/day, or $400 for a membership with free shooting.

If you ever look to buy a rifle, something to look for before you sign up is what type of ammo the range will let you fire. Some places frown on steel bullets (like your Tul), though that typically only applies to rifle calibers. My range doesn't care so long as it's not AP or incendiary, but they did inspect my ammo before letting me in.

[Stadler]

The guy across the street from me built a shooting range in his back yard.  I'm not at all certain of the legality of that endeavor. 

[El Barto]

The guy across the street from me built a shooting range in his back yard.  I'm not at all certain of the legality of that endeavor. 

As a rule, most laws about discharging weapons only apply inside of city limits. Since you're presumably in an unincorporated chunk of CT it shouldn't be a problem. After that it's simply a matter of courtesy and available room with a backstop.

[Chino]

I think the rules in CT require you to own at least 10 acres of property and must be 500' or more away from a structure you don't own when firing.



Not bad on the range fees you guys mentioned. I'm a bit jealous!

[El Barto]

I think the rules in CT require you to own at least 10 acres of property and must be 500' or more away from a structure you don't own when firing.

That's honestly pretty reasonable. Down here the only state law is that you cannot recklessly discharge a weapon in a municipality of more than 100k. Presumably you can be as reckless as you want elsewhere.   

[Chino]

Shenanigans have gotten pretty close to where I live the last year or so. A 13 year old was shot in his home from a stray bullet, and a two year old was shot as well, both within the last 3 weeks on the route I walk my dog.

The summer months aren't bad, but for 4 or 5 months of the year, it's pitch black for the better part of an hour while I walk my dog. I've been looking into pocket carrying. I really would like a revolver, but most that apply are $700+. I was looking at the Luger LCP II at the store yesterday, and it took every ounce of restraint to not impulse buy it.

My apprehension was, and I know this is all on me and against the grain, but I don't love the idea of keeping a round in the chamber. I want something I can pull out and fire with one hand, which is why I like the revolver route.

Thoughts/advice/words of wisdom? I'm not interested in holstering something, and I really don't have any intention of carrying outside of my morning 5A AM walks, so pocket carry is the way I'm leaning. My intention is to use a pocket holster though. One of those sleeves that hooks tot he inside of your pocket when drawing. At least that way the trigger is guarded.

[gmillerdrake]

That Ruger you mentioned or the Smith and Wesson Bodyguard would be perfect for that you’re talking about. I’m not a huge revolver fan so I don’t have any experience or advice on that front. There are a plethora of pocket holsters for those two models as well that’d be perfect. One in the chamber does not bother me. That gun isn’t going off unless you pull the trigger. If anything don’t chamber the round and practice slide chambering a round as you draw.

[Chino]

That Ruger you mentioned or the Smith and Wesson Bodyguard would be perfect for that you’re talking about. I’m not a huge revolver fan so I don’t have any experience or advice on that front. There are a plethora of pocket holsters for those two models as well that’d be perfect. One in the chamber does not bother me. That gun isn’t going off unless you pull the trigger. If anything don’t chamber the round and practice slide chambering a round as you draw.

So that's my pinch point. I know it's a specific scenario, but if I'm walking my dog and have his leash in my hand (it's a bulky retractable thing), it's going to be really hard to rack, especially if the situation calls for split second decisions/actions. I'd prefer to keep it all to one handed If possible.

I'm sure comfort with a chambered round would come in time. I'm not afraid of it randomly discharging or anything. I fear I could have a lapse in mind while it's chambered and accidentally discharge.

I've always been super confident in myself, and my ability to maintain situational awareness. But three weeks ago, I had a fender bender in my car. For the first time in my 17 years of driving, I was the cause of an accident. I had to cross 5 lanes of traffic coming from both directions, and despite being 100% certain I was clear, I managed to clip someone. It's a weird feeling I can't shake. I'm 100% confident I'd never accidentally discharge a revolver. A semi with a round in the chamber, I'm not sure I have faith in myself. I know from a mechanical standpoint (weight on the trigger), the LCR would be no more likely to fire than the revolvers you mentioned, but still. It's a weird mental block to shake.

(Apologies for any terrible syntasyntaxes, I'm on mobile)

[TAC]

Chino, other than the stray bullets, is there armed crime on the rise in your neighborhood? In other words, a pocket gun won't help you if a stray bullet comes your way from a quarter mile away.

Are there any other circumstances that make you feel that you'd need a gun to walk your dog?

[Chino]

Chino, other than the stray bullets, is there armed crime on the rise in your neighborhood? In other words, a pocket gun won't help you if a stray bullet comes your way from a quarter mile away.

Are there any other circumstances that make you feel that you'd need a gun to walk your dog?

I call it the "Waterbury Creep". There's a highway that's usually been the defining line between the crime and suburbs.

That creep has been getting closer a few streets at a time over the last few years.

Shootings have increased, but stolen cars are up substantially in the last two years (usually stolen in the  early AM when I'm out), as are catalytic converter thefts. I've had cars of guests broken into while they're here, and neighbors have mentioned that they've had things stolen over the last few months (cars, mowers, a trailer, etc).

So I guess there hasn't been an increase in violence in my neighborhood,  the brazen activity is ticking up very quickly. People do get robber and held up in the areas just beyond creep I'm talking about,  and it's getting closer.

I don't just say that willy nilly. If you look at crimes over the last 15 years, the numbers are creeping their way in. I do t feel like it's an immediate threat, but I would feel safer when out in the pitch black a couple miles from home.

[gmillerdrake]

That Ruger you mentioned or the Smith and Wesson Bodyguard would be perfect for that you’re talking about. I’m not a huge revolver fan so I don’t have any experience or advice on that front. There are a plethora of pocket holsters for those two models as well that’d be perfect. One in the chamber does not bother me. That gun isn’t going off unless you pull the trigger. If anything don’t chamber the round and practice slide chambering a round as you draw.

So that's my pinch point. I know it's a specific scenario, but if I'm walking my dog and have his leash in my hand (it's a bulky retractable thing), it's going to be really hard to rack, especially if the situation calls for split second decisions/actions. I'd prefer to keep it all to one handed If possible.

I'm sure comfort with a chambered round would come in time. I'm not afraid of it randomly discharging or anything. I fear I could have a lapse in mind while it's chambered and accidentally discharge.

I've always been super confident in myself, and my ability to maintain situational awareness. But three weeks ago, I had a fender bender in my car. For the first time in my 17 years of driving, I was the cause of an accident. I had to cross 5 lanes of traffic coming from both directions, and despite being 100% certain I was clear, I managed to clip someone. It's a weird feeling I can't shake. I'm 100% confident I'd never accidentally discharge a revolver. A semi with a round in the chamber, I'm not sure I have faith in myself. I know from a mechanical standpoint (weight on the trigger), the LCR would be no more likely to fire than the revolvers you mentioned, but still. It's a weird mental block to shake.

(Apologies for any terrible syntasyntaxes, I'm on mobile)

Totally understandable. The S&W Bodyguard has a safety whereas the Ruger doesn’t. Accidental discharges are certainly possible but that trigger has to be pulled for a round to be fired.

[TAC]

Chino, other than the stray bullets, is there armed crime on the rise in your neighborhood? In other words, a pocket gun won't help you if a stray bullet comes your way from a quarter mile away.

Are there any other circumstances that make you feel that you'd need a gun to walk your dog?

I call it the "Waterbury Creep". There's a highway that's usually been the defining line between the crime and suburbs.

That creep has been getting closer a few streets at a time over the last few years.

Shootings have increased, but stolen cars are up substantially in the last two years (usually stolen in the  early AM when I'm out), as are catalytic converter thefts. I've had cars of guests broken into while they're here, and neighbors have mentioned that they've had things stolen over the last few months (cars, mowers, a trailer, etc).

So I guess there hasn't been an increase in violence in my neighborhood,  the brazen activity is ticking up very quickly. People do get robber and held up in the areas just beyond creep I'm talking about,  and it's getting closer.

I don't just say that willy nilly. If you look at crimes over the last 15 years, the numbers are creeping their way in. I do t feel like it's an immediate threat, but I would feel safer when out in the pitch black a couple miles from home.

Is it necessary to walk your dog in the pitch black? Are there bears near you? I know they're in Connecticut.