POLL: Which era of Symphony X do you like more?

[Dr. DTVT]

Since I can't run this in the SyX thread, and I think people who wouldn't otherwise go in that thread might vote here, I gave it its own thread.

I'm of the opinion that the two latest albums are two of the weakest ones, probably only beating the debut, and just barely.  V was my first album by them and probably is still my favorite, but I like the rest of the albums from that era.  I know I'm probably in the minority on this but I just need to know who my brothers in arms are.

[E.S.]

V all the way, it's my favourite. Twilight in Olympus, Odyssey and Divine Wings are very close. Hard to pick just one.
Twilight was my first when it was new.

[Zook]

Damnation Game through Odyssey - and I discovered the band through these albums. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the first Symphony X song I ever heard was either Through The Looking glass or The Odyssey, but they also offered a handful of tracks for download on their website back in '06 that I made a mix CD of. I enjoy the new era, but will always prefer the old era so much more. Russell's clean soulful singing is what I fell in love with, and the whole orchestrations and symphonic stuff. Symphony X pull off the heavy shit really well, but they seemed to be abandoning the melodic stuff they also pull off really well. Are we back to the "ballads are gay" phase?

[Nick]

I think it's quite unfair to compare 6 albums worth of material to 2 albums.

I became a fan with The Odyssey and prefer the new era.

[black_biff_stadler]

I think it's quite unfair to compare 6 albums worth of material to 2 albums.

I became a fan with The Odyssey and prefer the new era.

It's comparing one stylistic era to the one that seemingly has replaced it. The numbers just happen to have boiled down that way.

For me, I got into them in very early 2000 which places me about two thirds of the way between the respective releases of Twilight in Olympus and V. My first exposure to them was when a friend gave me The Divine Wings of Tragedy and Twilight in Olympus at the same time. I listened to Divine Wings a good bit for a couple weeks before delving into Twilight. Of Sins and Shadows was obviously the first track I heard by them given that it's the opening track from Divine Wings. I felt like exhilarating lightning was coursing through my urethra. So enahjee! POWAH!!! I love when the keyboards kick in, the way the chorus doesn't disrupt the intensity the way so many songs suffer from that when songwriters try to get too cute with trying for "cool" transitions, and the solo section with Mike and Mike trading off was a perfectly awesome representation of what they're all about when they go into awesome ear-rape mode.

Sea of Lies kept the awesomeness going by thrilling me just as much but with a different vibe and sweet Jesus, that sweep tapping axe/keys unison/harmony section before the solo That album is probably my favorite prog metal album ever and thoroughly destroys anything DT and Opeth have ever done imo which is bizarrely ironic since SX has never been my outright #1 favorite band at any point in my life but DT has from 2000-04 and Opeth as well from 2004-present.

Once I began listening to Twilight I thought it was a good bit behind Divine Wings but Church of the Machine really helped it start earning a place in my heart and Orion: The Hunter, Through the Looking Glass, and In the Dragon's Den collectively cemented it as a bonafide gem I'll always love.

When I first heard Paradise Lost, I was underwhelmed to the point of it making me feel a tad sad. All I could think was "Jesus! These guys took their longest hiatus between albums ever and pushed back the release date for this thing numerous times creating at least a 2-year gap between the original release date and the actual release date just so they could release their samiest (even by SX samey standards) and least inspired album to date?!?"

I've relistened to it and have probably given it a total of 10 or 12 full spins aside from casual listening on shuffle in the car and still have trouble making it even 2/3 of the way in before I start drifting and moving onto other activities like video games, TV, etc. and that's even when consciously forcing myself to try to stay focused on it.

Iconoclast's title track is fantastic and really had me hard in the trousers with hopes of a return to the era that actually sounded good but after about maybe 3 or 4 full spins it only sounds like they manage to be interesting on a few tracks. I'm not ready to nearly write it off like I have with PL but as of now, I catch myself forcing it into a full spin once every month or two with similar results to those of PL in that even when I try to force myself to absorb it, it begins feeling like a chore after 4 or 5 songs and I end up drifting off onto other things.

[krands85]

I didn't get into them until a while after Paradise Lost was released, but I think the first song I heard was Sea of Lies.

I've probably listened to Paradise Lost more as a whole than any of their other albums, but I do generally prefer the style of their previous work. The Odyssey and The Divine Wings Of Tragedy are awesome (their title tracks especially).

I still really like Iconoclast and there are some fantastic songs on there, but I wish they'd have a bit more balance between that and their previous styles - mainly with Allen's vocal delivery.

[Jaq]

I've been a fan of Symphony X since 1999 or so, back when buying one of their albums was an adventure (high priced imports, YAY) and I'm just going to throw this thought out here.

I don't think that you can say that there is as sharp a dividing line in their careers as "everything up to Paradise Lost."

Right now I'm sure people are looking at me funny. It's okay, I just woke up and I still have my first cup of coffee to drink.

A lot of people, in discussions of Symphony X, point at Paradise Lost and say "this is the moment the band changed and became a straight up metal band." There is a wall in the band's discography for them, with every other album on one side and PL and Iconoclast on the other side. But if you actually go back and listen to the band's entire discography, you will find that isn't really true. Each Symphony X album is progressively heavier than the one before it. Divine Wings is heavier than Damnation Game. Twilight is heavier than V. The Odyssey is heavier than V, and so on, and so on. While it is true that the band has turned towards a more guitar riff based direction since Michael Romeo became the primary songwriter in the last three albums, there is an established through line in their work of the band growing heavier.

I think one of the reasons a lot of people have dismay about these changes is the notion that Symphony X is a progressive metal band, which I never really considered them. I dislike labels because it tends to straightjacket a band to expectations, but Symphony X has as much in common with power metal bands and neoclassical bands as they do progressive metal bands. All the time, I hear people (not just on these forums, mind) lamenting the death of the symphonic progressive era of Symphony X, and I wonder what band these people are listening to. Other than the more metallic songs being a touch more aggressive (and SX has always done straight up metal songs, this is nothing new), Iconoclast sounds like Symphony X to me.

People often wish that the band would do more songs like Divine Wings. Divine Wings, at times, though, is pretty crushingly heavy given the production of the album. I imagine this is a classic YMMV moment here.

[kirksnosehair]

Since I can't run this in the SyX thread, and I think people who wouldn't otherwise go in that thread might vote here, I gave it its own thread.

I'm of the opinion that the two latest albums are two of the weakest ones, probably only beating the debut, and just barely.  V was my first album by them and probably is still my favorite, but I like the rest of the albums from that era.  I know I'm probably in the minority on this but I just need to know who my brothers in arms are.

We agree 100% 

[yorost]

I abstained because I dislike both eras, but I definitely think I would vote for the earlier one.  Only listened to whole albums from that era, but everything I've sampled form the newer ones only makes me think they got worse.  The only album I having any particular liking for as a whole is V.

[RuRoRul]

As said before 2 albums vs everything before seems like a bit of a stupid way to divide the poll. And The Odyssey at least is much closer in sound to Paradise Lost and Iconoclast than it is to The Damnation Game, so claiming that it's albums of the same style against those of a completely different style doesn't really have that much logic to it either, imo. Just seems like a way to say "Lol old stuff is better than the last two albums" and put even people who don't think they suck into the position of voting against them.

The combined material on DWOT, TiO, V, The Odyssey (throwing in The Edge Of Forever and maybe A Winter's Dream) is definitely better than just PL and Iconoclast. But the average quality of PL and Iconoclast is higher than the average quality of The Damnation Game through The Odyssey. So if it was 5 albums of comparable quality to PL vs. the other 5, PL and Iconoclast would win.

Not sure what my favourite Symphony X album is honestly - it could be anything from V to Iconoclast. The Odyssey has their single best song and a few other of their very best but also some weaker stuff, V and Paradise Lost I find to be fairly consistent and not have that many weak songs, while Iconoclast is probably even more consistent but lacking in variety. I definitely prefer PL and Iconoclast to DWOT and TiO as a whole, and prefer their overall sound to those old albums. Going forward I'd like to see more variety, a few less straight forward heavy songs and a bit more melody and clean singing, but on the whole I'm happy with the last two albums.

Discovered with Paradise Lost then went backwards to older stuff, PL remained my favourite for a while then probably considered V my favourite, more recently found myself favouring The Odyssey.

[Elite]

Abstaining because I hate Iconoclast and love Paradise Lost.

I have yet to listen to some of their older material, to be honest.

[kirksnosehair]

To add a little balance here, I think the poll is 100% valid.  The band most certainly changed their approach with the album Paradise Lost.  Calling it "stupid" to create a poll like this demonstrates a lack of depth of critical thinking. 

The band released their first album, the eponymously titled "Symphony X" in 1994.  The last album released in what the OP is obviously thinking of as the classic era of the band is "The Odyssey" released in released in 2002.  So you have an 8 year stretch, during which the band demonstrated a knack for creating metal, yes, but also for blending metal with symphonic song structures.  Especially notable is the vast difference in both vocal melodies and the vocal delivery style of Russell Allen, which changed quite a bit with the release of Paradise Lost, and even more with Iconoclast.

"Paradise Lost" was released 5 years after "The Odyssey" and "Iconoclast" was released 4 years later, so, really, the underlying premise of this thread generally splits the band's career almost down the middle with them having a very prolific first 8 years (Symphony X, The Damnation Game, The Divine Wings of Tragedy, Twilight In Olympus, V: The New Mythology Suite, The Odyssey) followed by a much less prolific (and much less progressive and much more metal) 9 year period that resulted in only two albums, Paradise Lost and Iconoclast.

Bottom line:  There is absolutely nothing "stupid" about this poll.

[LCArenas]

I got into SX because of Paradise Lost, but Divine Wings of Tragedy is undoubtedly their best album, followed by V. Now that was a great era.

[yorost]

Bottom line:  There is absolutely nothing "stupid" about this poll.

I agree with your sentiment, but it's a poll on the internet.  ...that's got to count for some kind of stupid.

[Jaq]

I still don't see the huge defining difference between The Odyssey and Paradise Lost that causes the last two albums to be their own era.

Am I really the only person who sees Symphony X evolving fairly naturally over their entire career?

For the record, I think Iconoclast is equal to Divine Wings and V as their best album.

[RuRoRul]

Since there seems to be a big deal being made over the use of the word stupid, I will amend my statement to this: 5 albums worth of material vs 2 albums worth of material isn't likely to give results that are all that meaningful or to reflect people's opinions of the latter two albums particularly well, since even someone who ranks Iconoclast as Paradise Lost as #1 and 2 Symphony X albums might not prefer the two of them to the entirety of Symphony X's discography before that. And I don't agree that it is albums of one distinct style versus albums of another disticnt style, to me at least, The Odyssey seems much closer to Paradise Lost than it does to The Damnation Game.

I still don't see the huge defining difference between The Odyssey and Paradise Lost that causes the last two albums to be their own era.

Am I really the only person who sees Symphony X evolving fairly naturally over their entire career?

I see things similarly.

[snapple]

DWOT is the only album I listen to with any regularity. Even then, the cheesiness is too much for me.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Sea of lies was the first song that i heard from SX and it blew my mind back in 1998. I just loved their combination of metal with classical elements.
I really love Allens performance on DWOT, it may be his best IMO. I kind of prefer the more mellow side of his voice.

To me the Accolade and the Title track is whats represents SX or rather the style i whished they had followed. SX still produce solid albums but that style and album is something special to me.
It seems that alot of prog bands these days tends to be more metal than prog for every new album they release instead of the opposite, why is that? 

My top three SX albums are:

1. DWOT
2. V
3. PL

[ytserush]

Where's the don't like any era option?

[pain of occupation]

agree with Jaq...the supposed sharp divide doesnt really exist.

or maybe it exists...but it's more of a dull divide.
sharp = exaggerated.

[bosk1]

[Some pretty airtight analysis]

I get your point, and I mostly agree with it (and with the premise of the poll itself).  I just have to say that, notwithstanding that you are absolutely correct, it still feels weird to be comparing a period with six albums to a period with only two.  But anyhow...

I became a fan sort of late in the game.  I picked up The Odyssey and loved it.  I got V after that, and pretty much loved it as well.  Their older stuff just doesn't do it for me.  While it isn't that different than the two last albums of this era, there's something magical about those two albums.  There are individual songs I like on the older albums, but I don't like the albums as a whole.  That being said, even if I only compare The Odyssey and V against Paradise Lost and Iconoclast, the earlier era wins for me.  And my reasoning is:  I think they do bonecrushing metal better now on these last two albums than ever before.  BUT, the band used to be about more than just bonecrushing metal.  While they are still very technical and melodic, and still employ the symphonic elements, they are much more one-dimensional than they used to be, and their last two albums feel very monotone to me.  I loved the diversity you got with The Odyssey and V, and I feel it has been sorely lacking in this latter era.

[Nick]

Yeah, to clarify I wasn't saying that there wasn't logic behind why the albums were split the way they are. There is definitely a sound difference pre and post Odyssey, and I think that album could go either way. Point is if you are trying to figure out which general sound has been better for the band it's tough for two albums worth of material to ever compete with 6 albums worth of material.

[pain of occupation]

well put, bosk1.

maybe we can call V it's own era, and have a pre-V-era, and a post-V-era, cuz really, i'd say that's the album that stands out the most as being different.

dat progress!
dem arrangements!

[theseoafs]

I don't know, I feel like Iconoclast is a step back in the classical direction (read: far more interesting/progressive than Paradise Lost). Voted for the "I like the early albums and discovered the band through the early albums" option.

[LudwigVan]

Outside of the s/t debut, I really like everything up through The Odyssey.   PL and Iconoclast... not so much.

[HarlequinForest]

Order I listened to them in: Odyssey > V > Paradise Lost > Divine Wings

Order I prefer them: V > Odyssey > Divine Wings >>>> Paradise Lost

When I read that Iconoclast is pretty much more of the same, I didn't even bother getting it.

[kirksnosehair]

When I read that Iconoclast is pretty much more of the same, I didn't even bother getting it.

And you ain't missing much.  The title track is pretty good, and there's another one that's decent with some good melodic vocals from Russell Allen, and the rest is phoned in crap as far as I'm concerned.   And Russell Allen is totally wasted on this album.  Such a great vocalist singing like he's gargling with sand and glass.

I definitely will not be buying their next one without hearing it first.

[Jaq]

Here's a fun fact for you from the people who don't think there is a defining line in SX's music.

I was posting on a Dream Theater message board in the General Music Symphony X thread once. The discussion was about the band's latest album, and a large number of people were saying the band was growing too heavy, too guitar centered, was losing the progressive side, and people were wishing they'd sound more like Divine Wings.

It was November 2000, on the old Dream Theater EZ Board, and the album being discussed as being too heavy was V.

There you go.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

to be honest i'd even lump in The Odyssey with the newest two albums

[wolfking]

This is a hard decision for me.  I discovered the band about 10 years ago with Twilight, so I was definitely familiar with the older stuff first.  But I'm actually leaning towards the last two albums also.  I agree with Myung and would lump Odyssey with the latest two also.

[black_biff_stadler]

I remember Wicked was the first song I ever heard of theirs where I experienced the "Whoa, that was pretty goddamn uninpsired" feeling. The Odyssey was something of a swansong for their enjoyable era for me. Songs like Inferno, Awakenings, and The Odyssey all are pretty damn strong throughout but the remaining tracks all come across as something they slapped together in a very limited timeframe after spending all their time refining the actual good tracks.

I'm still infinitely frustrated at how poorly executed the entirety of Paradise Lost was. The music flat out sucked compared to what they're capable of even though they took 4 years and 7 months to put it out which was nearly twice as long as their previous longest between-albums duration of 31 months between Twilight in Olympus and V: The New Mythology Suite. It gets even worse when you realize they were putting out gems like The Damnation game, The Divine Wings of Tragedy, and Twilight in Olympus with these super-close release dates:

The Damnation Game                     August 1995 (less than a year after the previous album)
The Divines Wings of Tragedy          January 1997 (17 months after the previous album)
Twilight in Olympus                         March 1998 (14 months after the previous album)
V: The New Mythology Suite            October 2000 (31 months after the previous album)

[Dr. DTVT]

Then it took them 4 more years to write one good song and a bunch of garbage in a package called "Iconoclast"

[Zook]

Hey, Wicked is awesome! The Odyssey definitely started the balls and chunk era of SX, but that album is awesome throughout and contains Allen's best performances with the band.

[black_biff_stadler]

Main lick of Wicked is dildos and this is coming from a 12-year fan who's driven 500 miles to see them and probably likes 'em as much as you do and possibly more.

[Ultimetalhead]

Tough call for me. The only albums I really care for by them anymore are Divine Wings and Paradise Lost. The Odyssey is a pretty brilliant song, but the rest of the album drags like a motherfucker. I guess I'd still consider Paradise Lost my favorite album by them though, so I voted for the third option.