Would You Want to Be Raised by a Homosexual Couple?

[jsem]

What. So you're saying, a guy having sex with another guy is not a choice?

Homosexuality is not a choice, but having voluntary sex with another human being is.



edit: am i being trolled here or what?

[Omega]

Homosexuality is something you're born with.  Its not something you try out like you're shopping for a car.  That is the basic thing about human sexuality that I think you're missing. 

Yes, some people are most likely "born gay" but there are some individuals who legitimately choose to be gay or engage in homosexual activity.

https://www.theblaze.com/stories/lesbian-sex-and-the-city-star-on-her-sexuality-for-me-its-a-choice/

[Omega]

People don't choose how they feel towards other beings. You don't choose to be physically attracted to just one sex, or two, or none in fact.

It's something that happens. How they act based on these attractions are conscious choices.

    That's straight up religious dogma.  Sorry, no sale.

What? There is no mention or even implication of religious dogma in jshmehhhh's post. It's just stating credible observations.

[jsem]

Probably trolling from kirks side.


At the story though, her lifestyle is certainly a choice. My question to her would be what she is actually attracted to, is she attracted to both sexes but maybe just choose to have periods where she's "gay" and "straight". She can't say it's a choice that she suddenly felt "hmm, I'm not attracted to men anymore, I'm going to be attracted to women". That doesn't work. She has got to be bisexual or something.

[Super Dude]

I mean you can not be certain of your sexual preferences. A couple of my gay friends didn't realize/admit to themselves that they liked men until they tried dating women.

[Omega]

I mean you can not be certain of your sexual preferences. A couple of my gay friends didn't realize/admit to themselves that they liked men until they tried dating women.

I am certain I am not sexually attracted to men.

[Sigz]

I mean you can not be certain of your sexual preferences. A couple of my gay friends didn't realize/admit to themselves that they liked men until they tried dating women.

I am certain I am not sexually attracted to men.

Could be decide to be attracted to men?

[Omega]

I mean you can not be certain of your sexual preferences. A couple of my gay friends didn't realize/admit to themselves that they liked men until they tried dating women.

I am certain I am not sexually attracted to men.

Could be decide to be attracted to men?

 

[Sigz]

I mean you can not be certain of your sexual preferences. A couple of my gay friends didn't realize/admit to themselves that they liked men until they tried dating women.

I am certain I am not sexually attracted to men.

Could be decide to be attracted to men?

 

I mean, hypothetically speaking, if you decided you wanted to be gay could you change yourself to find men attractive?

[Omega]

I mean you can not be certain of your sexual preferences. A couple of my gay friends didn't realize/admit to themselves that they liked men until they tried dating women.

I am certain I am not sexually attracted to men.

Could be decide to be attracted to men?

 

I mean, hypothetically speaking, if you decided you wanted to be gay could you change yourself to find men attractive?

No chance. And I suppose now you will say that (true) homosexuals cannot change themselves to find the opposite sex attractive, which I would agree to.

[Sigz]

No chance. And I suppose now you will say that (true) homosexuals cannot change themselves to find the opposite sex attractive, which I would agree to.

But if you can't change who you're attracted to, how can you even claim there's such thing as a 'true' homosexual?

[Omega]

No chance. And I suppose now you will say that (true) homosexuals cannot change themselves to find the opposite sex attractive, which I would agree to.

But if you can't change who you're attracted to, how can you even claim there's such thing as a 'true' homosexual?

Because there are many "homosexuals" who engage in homosexual behavior merely out of social convention or for reasons other than sexual attraction. Perhaps there is little sexual attraction to members of the same sex. Perhaps a person is attracted to both sexes. Perhaps people choose to feign attraction to members of the opposite sex for reasons other than sexual attraction.


Perhaps others, still, are not certain of their sexual attraction. Yet I think it is safe to say that there are people who know for certain their sexual attraction / orientation.

[Super Dude]

What social conventions are those? Last I checked, homosexuality was kinda against the grain in that respect.

[ehra]

May I ask what's so important about whether homosexuality is a choice or not? I get what the distinction is, but why does it seem to matter so much whenever homosexuality comes up?

[MasterShakezula]

I'm assuming that someone who would view homosexuality as a vice would believe it to be a conscious choice, as that would make a homosexual responsible for their immoral actions, in their POV. 

Being unopposed to homosexuality, as well as believing that it's something that isn't controllable, that's my best assumption. 

[ehra]

Assuming someone's already coming from the point of view that homosexuality (and/or acting out on it) is an unforgivable sin that damns you to hell, I'm not too sure whether someone having any choice in their sexual preference would matter much. God apparently couldn't be bothered to even to make any exceptions to His rules for people around that world that had the misfortune of never being introduced to Christianity. People potentially being screwed over by things beyond their control doesn't seem to have been an important enough topic for the Bible to touch on.

[antigoon]

I'm assuming that someone who would view homosexuality as a vice would believe it to be a conscious choice, as that would make a homosexual responsible for their immoral actions, in their POV. 

Being unopposed to homosexuality, as well as believing that it's something that isn't controllable, that's my best assumption. 

Pretty sure those hardcore christian folks who admit homosexuality isn't a choice still feel that way about them being responsible for their immoral actions.

[hefdaddy42]

I am a Christian who is quite certain that he is attracted to women.  But I know pretty well another Christian who is quite gay, and I say more power to him.

[Adami]

No chance. And I suppose now you will say that (true) homosexuals cannot change themselves to find the opposite sex attractive, which I would agree to.

But if you can't change who you're attracted to, how can you even claim there's such thing as a 'true' homosexual?

Because there are many "homosexuals" who engage in homosexual behavior merely out of social convention or for reasons other than sexual attraction. Perhaps there is little sexual attraction to members of the same sex. Perhaps a person is attracted to both sexes. Perhaps people choose to feign attraction to members of the opposite sex for reasons other than sexual attraction.


Perhaps others, still, are not certain of their sexual attraction. Yet I think it is safe to say that there are people who know for certain their sexual attraction / orientation.

More so I would say there are probably quite a few repressed homosexuals who feign attraction to members of the opposite sex and choose to engage in sexual  behavior with them, despite a lack of sexual attraction, simply because their religion/culture/whatever tells them to.

However I'd be willing to bet the number of people who continuously (not a one time experiment thing) have sex with members of the same sex, do so because they want to and are attracted to them.

In fact, I'd say the number of homosexuals who engage in heterosexual activity because of a forced oppression far outweighs any number of people who engage in homosexual behavior without being homosexual.

[Super Dude]

No chance. And I suppose now you will say that (true) homosexuals cannot change themselves to find the opposite sex attractive, which I would agree to.

But if you can't change who you're attracted to, how can you even claim there's such thing as a 'true' homosexual?

Because there are many "homosexuals" who engage in homosexual behavior merely out of social convention or for reasons other than sexual attraction. Perhaps there is little sexual attraction to members of the same sex. Perhaps a person is attracted to both sexes. Perhaps people choose to feign attraction to members of the opposite sex for reasons other than sexual attraction.


Perhaps others, still, are not certain of their sexual attraction. Yet I think it is safe to say that there are people who know for certain their sexual attraction / orientation.

More so I would say there are probably quite a few repressed homosexuals who feign attraction to members of the opposite sex and choose to engage in sexual  behavior with them, despite a lack of sexual attraction, simply because their religion/culture/whatever tells them to.

However I'd be willing to bet the number of people who continuously (not a one time experiment thing) have sex with members of the same sex, do so because they want to and are attracted to them.

In fact, I'd say the number of homosexuals who engage in heterosexual activity because of a forced oppression far outweighs any number of people who engage in homosexual behavior without being homosexual.

Right, I'm not really sure there's that much social pressure for a person to engage in homosexual acts. As Adami points out, quite the opposite.

[jsem]

There's no social pressure, but lesbianism is being accepted more and more - and well, guys generally seem to have no objection to lesbians (if they're hot that is ofc). You see much higher rates of women experimenting with homosexual sex than men.

[kirksnosehair]

I am a Christian who is quite certain that he is attracted to women.  But I know pretty well another Christian who is quite gay, and I say more power to him.

Respect

[kirksnosehair]

Probably trolling from kirks side.


At the story though, her lifestyle is certainly a choice. My question to her would be what she is actually attracted to, is she attracted to both sexes but maybe just choose to have periods where she's "gay" and "straight". She can't say it's a choice that she suddenly felt "hmm, I'm not attracted to men anymore, I'm going to be attracted to women". That doesn't work. She has got to be bisexual or something.

No, it's not trolling.  It's an observation I've made here and on many other occasions in discussions like this.  The splitting of rhetorical hairs to give yourself permission to condemn homosexuality, that's all it really is. 

[Omega]

Probably trolling from kirks side.


At the story though, her lifestyle is certainly a choice. My question to her would be what she is actually attracted to, is she attracted to both sexes but maybe just choose to have periods where she's "gay" and "straight". She can't say it's a choice that she suddenly felt "hmm, I'm not attracted to men anymore, I'm going to be attracted to women". That doesn't work. She has got to be bisexual or something.

No, it's not trolling.  It's an observation I've made here and on many other occasions in discussions like this.  The splitting of rhetorical hairs to give yourself permission to condemn homosexuality, that's all it really is.

What? He's simply saying that deciding to participate in a homosexual act is a conscious choice. How can you disagree with that or chalk it up as "religious dogma"?

[hefdaddy42]

Engaging in a homosexual act is just as conscious a choice as engaging in a heterosexual act.  But the underlying desire or attraction for that act is not conscious.

[Super Dude]

Engaging in a homosexual act is just as conscious a choice as engaging in a heterosexual act.  But the underlying desire or attraction for that act is not conscious.

This.

[kirksnosehair]

Engaging in a homosexual act is just as conscious a choice as engaging in a heterosexual act.  But the underlying desire or attraction for that act is not conscious.

Exactly.  You articulated better than I did.  Thank you.

[Omega]

Engaging in a homosexual act is just as conscious a choice as engaging in a heterosexual act.  But the underlying desire or attraction for that act is not conscious.

Uh, yes, I agree.

And religious dogma relates to this reasoning how?

[jsem]

Engaging in a homosexual act is just as conscious a choice as engaging in a heterosexual act.  But the underlying desire or attraction for that act is not conscious.

I don't see how anyone could object to this statement.

[yeshaberto]

Engaging in a homosexual act is just as conscious a choice as engaging in a heterosexual act.  But the underlying desire or attraction for that act is not conscious.

Exactly.  You articulated better than I did.  Thank you.

[Omega]

Engaging in a homosexual act is just as conscious a choice as engaging in a heterosexual act.  But the underlying desire or attraction for that act is not conscious.

I don't see how anyone could object to this statement.

This is exactly what you said, just dressed up in royal silk.

[jsem]

Well, I didn't say in that way. Hef stated it in a much better way.

[AcidLameLTE]

Engaging in a homosexual act is just as conscious a choice as engaging in a heterosexual act.  But the underlying desire or attraction for that act is not conscious.

Uh, yes, I agree.

And religious dogma relates to this reasoning how?

Certain people use it as a way to still condemn them.

[yeshaberto]

not sure how hef's well defined clarification indicates whether something is right or wrong.  I make choices all the time to do things that are wrong based upon an innate desire I have for it.
If someone wants to argue that nothing is "wrong" based on a rejection of ultimate truth, that is one thing.  But just because I have a natural desire for something and it is my choice to do it doesn't necessarily make it "right"

[kirksnosehair]

Engaging in a homosexual act is just as conscious a choice as engaging in a heterosexual act.  But the underlying desire or attraction for that act is not conscious.

Uh, yes, I agree.

And religious dogma relates to this reasoning how?

Certain people use it as a way to still condemn them.

And you can typically draw a line directly from that condemnation to religious dogma.