Would You Want to Be Raised by a Homosexual Couple?

[j]

The situation in ehra's post does add quite a few confounding factors to the scenario initially in question (a kid being raised by a couple, gay or straight).  Interesting arrangement though.

-J

[Scheavo]

Here's something... If a gay couple wants to have a kid, they have to actively plan to have a kid. It's not like they can get accidentally pregnant, which in a lot of cases leads to people trying to make things work, and staying in an unhealthy relationship because they feel they owe it to the kid (and in some sense, they do). Since this can't happen in a gay household, you generally have more caring and invested parents, and a healthy household.

Pretty sure there was a study I remember hearing about that looked at this. By every objective standard, gay parents meet or exceed straight parents.

[Dr. DTVT]

And there is a long list of people my kids would get traded to in the case of a death or 10.

I can offer you a first and third round pick, but I'll need some economic consessions to make that trade.

[chknptpie]

uhhh I'm not sure what this question is getting at. I can't choose who my parents are.

[reneranucci]

Definitely no.

[Nekov]

uhhh I'm not sure what this question is getting at. I can't choose who my parents are.

I believe that the question should be if you would mind being raised by gay parents.

In my case I don't think I would mind as long as they were good parents.

[Omega]

Pretty sure there was a study I remember hearing about that looked at this. By every objective standard, gay parents meet or exceed straight parents.

To clarify, are you saying that, given an ideal same-sex couple and an ideal hetero couple, that a same-sex couple would be just as ideal for the child or even more so than a hetero couple?

[jsem]

Pretty sure there was a study I remember hearing about that looked at this. By every objective standard, gay parents meet or exceed straight parents.

To clarify, are you saying that, given an ideal same-sex couple and an ideal hetero couple, that a same-sex couple would be just as ideal for the child or even more so than a hetero couple?

No study has been conducted at all with those set of circumstances, because who is to determine what an "ideal" couple is?

There are studies that show children raised by gay couples having better results, but there is a factor explaining this. Gay people don't have accidental children, if they want children they have carefully planned it and will be dedicated to take care of the child and love the child - a much better approach than I see a lot of heterosexual couples have when it comes to child caring. There's also another factor, which is when getting artificially inseminated, you have specifically chosen sperm of people with higher IQ and no genetic defects - it's VERY likely that such a factor plays into the results.


@the long story from reddit:
It seems like they genuinely loved their children and they did not put them through corporal punishment. That makes them much better than most parents out there, and the kids are blessed to have caring parents - even though their lifestyle is certainly unusual.


My personal opinion is that it's definitely preferable to have a heterosexual couple raise a child if the same preconditions are met as they are with homosexual couples when it comes to genuine care.

And again, this is coming from someone who certainly does not condone the lifestyle.

[Scheavo]

Well, seeing as how there's a lot of orphans and kids without a real home, I'd say we're doing a lot more social harm by not letting gay couples adopt said kids, and giving them a loving home in the process.

[Super Dude]

Well, seeing as how there's a lot of orphans and kids without a real home, I'd say we're doing a lot more social harm by not letting gay couples adopt said kids, and giving them a loving home in the process.

Yep, there's the clincher imo. What's important isn't who the parents are, but that the kids have parents and that they feel safe in that home.

[SeventhSon]

I wrote a paper about this in 2009 for an issues in child development class in university. I'll include it here if I can figure out a way to do so without a 2500-word text dump stretching out this post. Looking through it it doesn't seem like it's the complete paper, but it looks pretty close.

Long story short, after conducting research on the subject of outcomes of children of same-sex families, the only common negative outcome was related to the stigma of having same-sex parents (teasing, etc). In terms of sexual health, physical/mental health, happiness and overall well-being, there wasn't much difference.



Unless there's a way to hide a huge chunk of text I'm not going to bother posting the whole thing here. If anyone wants to read it they can PM me and I can send it to them.

[ehra]

The more I think about it, the more I think the biggest downside to being raised by a homosexual couple (or a single parent. Or parents with multiple partners. Or two parents that are married to separate people but everyone lives together. Or any other abnormal family setup), all other things being "equal," is the judgement from people on the outside. As long as they're good parents to the kid and teach it how to survive on its own and have reasonable interactions with other human beings, where do I or anyone else get off approving or disapproving of their own personal lives?

The dad from the other thread was brought up earlier, the one who shot his daughter's laptop. When I first saw the video and read that thread I had decided that guy was a raging retard; I mean, why the hell would you shoot the laptop? There are other ways to make the point without getting trigger happy. But after this thread and thinking about the issue more, really, who am I to judge? Yeah, I wouldn't personally shoot the laptop, but that doesn't make it wrong. He didn't put anyone at risk when he did it; it's not like he was shooting the gun in his own home. He had a perfectly valid reason to take the laptop from the girl. He was teaching her a lesson that hopefully she'll have to sense to keep in mind once she's living her own life. As far as I could tell he was doing everything a good parent should, but I judge him negatively because he did so in a way I wouldn't? Well fuck me.

It's the same with the girl's story I posted. Would I want to raise a kid in that kind environment? Hell no. I wouldn't want to be a part of that even without a kid to worry about. But as far as I could tell she grew up to be a rational, intelligent, good person. Despite making personal choices that I would never make, they still did their jobs as parents. Reading her story, it seemed like the hardest issue she had to deal with (other than the initial shock) was the judgement from people who disapproved of some personal choices her parents made that had no affect on them or their ability to do what a parent needs to do.

[Omega]

It's the same with the girl's story I posted. Would I want to raise a kid in that kind environment? Hell no. I wouldn't want to be a part of that even without a kid to worry about. But as far as I could tell she grew up to be a rational, intelligent, good person. Despite making personal choices that I would never make, they still did their jobs as parents. Reading her story, it seemed like the hardest issue she had to deal with (other than the initial shock) was the judgement from people who disapproved of some personal choices her parents made that had no affect on them or their ability to do what a parent needs to do.

And you could also, within reason, say that her upbringing encouraged her to experiment with same-sex relationships, a decision that would undoubtedly be condemned by many.

[jsem]

Well, seeing as how there's a lot of orphans and kids without a real home, I'd say we're doing a lot more social harm by not letting gay couples adopt said kids, and giving them a loving home in the process.

This is true. Any place where a child can be raised in a violence-free environment is going to yield far better results.

[ehra]

It's the same with the girl's story I posted. Would I want to raise a kid in that kind environment? Hell no. I wouldn't want to be a part of that even without a kid to worry about. But as far as I could tell she grew up to be a rational, intelligent, good person. Despite making personal choices that I would never make, they still did their jobs as parents. Reading her story, it seemed like the hardest issue she had to deal with (other than the initial shock) was the judgement from people who disapproved of some personal choices her parents made that had no affect on them or their ability to do what a parent needs to do.

And you could also, within reason, say that her upbringing encouraged her to experiment with same-sex relationships, a decision that would undoubtedly be condemned by many.

Which goes back to my point; the biggest issue being judgement from others. I also think a key about that particular aspect of the girl's story is that she was experimenting; she wanted to learn as much about herself as about her parents. She gave it a try, decided it wasn't for her, then went back to "normal" relationships with presumably no issue one way or the other from her parents. Sexual experimentation is in no way exclusive to kids raised by gay couples. The difference was that her parents were willing to let their kid learn about who she was instead trying to force her one way or the other, which isn't something many other parents would have the courage to do.

[Omega]

Should, do you think, every person experiment sexually to find what is "right" for them?

[Sigz]

Should, do you think, every person experiment sexually to find what is "right" for them?

If they feel the need to, but I wouldn't say that everyone should.

[ehra]

If someone's having doubts then it's probably saving everyone a lot of hardship in the future if they find out sooner rather than later. It's not fair for the other person in the relationship for someone to just go through the motions with a "normal" relationship because they're afraid of being judged for taking part in a "wrong" lifestyle, and it's not fair to them to have to hide who they are for the same reasons. This girl was lucky that she still ended up with a functional, loving family that could keep itself supported financially; it just as easily could have been a situation where only one parent was making any money who then realized they were gay and left.

[GuineaPig]

Should, do you think, every person experiment sexually to find what is "right" for them?

I'm still not sure you understand basic things about human sexuality.

[Omega]

Should, do you think, every person experiment sexually to find what is "right" for them?

I'm still not sure you understand basic things about human sexuality.

Please, explain.

[j]

@the long story from reddit:
It seems like they genuinely loved their children and they did not put them through corporal punishment. That makes them much better than most parents out there, and the kids are blessed to have caring parents - even though their lifestyle is certainly unusual.

Wait...huh?

-J

[skydivingninja]

I would want to be raised by good, loving, and supportive parents. I don't care about their gender/sexuality.

This. 

Should, do you think, every person experiment sexually to find what is "right" for them?

I'm still not sure you understand basic things about human sexuality.

Please, explain.

Homosexuality is something you're born with.  Its not something you try out like you're shopping for a car.  That is the basic thing about human sexuality that I think you're missing.   

[Super Dude]

Unless by experimentation you mean finally being able to express your sexuality and sexual desires and curiosities in an atmosphere free of social pressures.

[jsem]

Homosexuality is something you're born with.  Its not something you try out like you're shopping for a car.  That is the basic thing about human sexuality that I think you're missing.   

AFAIK there is no consensus on the causes of homosexuality. The notion that it is a choice is completely false, but there is nothing proving that you're born with it at all either. You can be genetically more likely to be homosexual, but that doesn't prove much. Then again, there's no empirical studies that show a correlation between child abuse and then the children becoming homosexual or something like that - but to from that draw a conclusion saying that sexuality is something completely genetic is probably not accurate.

[antigoon]

Well if it's not a choice then what is it?

[kirksnosehair]

Well if it's not a choice then what is it?

This is a classic false choice and a rhetorical trap. 

Homosexual behavior occurs throughout the animal kingdom.  Do you think that 10% of Rams "choose" to have homosexual relations with same gender Rams?  There's no official "consensus" on whether or not homosexuality is a choice, but there IS growing agreement among the psychiatric and medical fields that there is, in fact, a genetic underpinning for homosexuality in human beings.  Even that debate is fully loaded with politics because the issue itself is a loaded one. 

I think any reasonable person who can detach their personal bias from the issue has to at least consider the possibility that homosexuality is just something that happens, statistically, in nature.  And we need to stop, as a society, ostracizing people who have this sexual orientation and accept them for who and what they are.  They're just people.

[jsem]

People don't choose how they feel towards other beings. You don't choose to be physically attracted to just one sex, or two, or none in fact.

It's something that happens. How they act based on these attractions are conscious choices.

[Scheavo]

Well if it's not a choice then what is it?

This is a classic false choice and a rhetorical trap. 

Homosexual behavior occurs throughout the animal kingdom.  Do you think that 10% of Rams "choose" to have homosexual relations with same gender Rams?  There's no official "consensus" on whether or not homosexuality is a choice, but there IS growing agreement among the psychiatric and medical fields that there is, in fact, a genetic underpinning for homosexuality in human beings.  Even that debate is fully loaded with politics because the issue itself is a loaded one. 

I think any reasonable person who can detach their personal bias from the issue has to at least consider the possibility that homosexuality is just something that happens, statistically, in nature.  And we need to stop, as a society, ostracizing people who have this sexual orientation and accept them for who and what they are.  They're just people.

Pretty sure I remember a study which looked at brain scans of gay and straight individuals, and found that gay men had more in common with straight female, in terms of brain structure, and lesbiam women had more in common with straight males.

[jsem]

Btw, can anyone point to me any studies of how societal hierarchies and structures affect sexuality?

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I've heard that among wolf packs only the alphas are allowed reproduce - thus other wolves turn to homosexuality.


And a nugget from the wikipedia article:
Among monkeys, Lionel Tiger and Robin Fox conducted a study on how Depo-Provera contraceptives lead to decreased male attractiveness to females and eventually to male homosexuality.


Maybe a research question ought to be how birth control affects human sexuality.

[antigoon]

Well if it's not a choice then what is it?

This is a classic false choice and a rhetorical trap. 

Homosexual behavior occurs throughout the animal kingdom.  Do you think that 10% of Rams "choose" to have homosexual relations with same gender Rams?  There's no official "consensus" on whether or not homosexuality is a choice, but there IS growing agreement among the psychiatric and medical fields that there is, in fact, a genetic underpinning for homosexuality in human beings.  Even that debate is fully loaded with politics because the issue itself is a loaded one. 

I think any reasonable person who can detach their personal bias from the issue has to at least consider the possibility that homosexuality is just something that happens, statistically, in nature.  And we need to stop, as a society, ostracizing people who have this sexual orientation and accept them for who and what they are.  They're just people.

to be clear I was just responding to jsem. I don't think that.

[jsem]

Well if it's not a choice then what is it?

A combination of genetics and the right societal circumstances. At least that's what I think. I don't think it's 100% genetics.

Just like every person with reduced brain functions in the right areas doesn't end up a serial killer. The childhood plays in, and pretty much every event in life helps shape the individual.

[Super Dude]

I'm not kidding when I say that I read once that archaeologists and anthropologists have discovered what amount to Stone Age dildos.

[jsem]

LOL

[Super Dude]

It's completely true. Having trouble finding the exact article, but it was said to be used by both males and females. I have no idea how they know that though.

[kirksnosehair]

People don't choose how they feel towards other beings. You don't choose to be physically attracted to just one sex, or two, or none in fact.

It's something that happens. How they act based on these attractions are conscious choices.

    That's straight up religious dogma.  Sorry, no sale.