Author Topic: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs  (Read 14612 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chino

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 25325
  • Gender: Male
PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« on: February 09, 2012, 07:52:45 AM »
I know this a political or religuos matter, but I wanted to post this in this section anyway because I feel like politics will come into play eventually. I kind of just want to rant about this and see if others feel like I do.

Quote
PepsiCo announced plans on Thursday to cut about 8,700 jobs as part of an effort to save some $1.5 billion in costs.

The job cuts are happening even as Chief Executive Indra Nooyi said the company experienced 8% annual growth in earnings per share over the last five years, and returned about $30 billion to shareholders in the form of dividends and share repurchases.


This really irritates the shit out of me. I understand that it is a companies job to make as much money for their shareholders as possible, but it seems so imoral to me. I could be wrong here, but the CEO of Pepsi has one of the highest slaries of any US company. I am willing to bet that this 1.5 billion in savings won't change the $1.75 price tag of a pepsi in the vending machines on my campus. Why does someone, who is already rich as fuck, need to let 8,700 people go? I get that this is standard business practice, but I am in a shit mood this morning, and seeing this article just pissed me off.

https://money.cnn.com/2012/02/09/news/companies/pepsi_jobs/index.htm?iid=HP_LN
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 08:28:26 AM by Chino »

Offline lordxizor

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5332
  • Gender: Male
  • and that is the truth.
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2012, 07:56:42 AM »
This is one of the biggest problems with having a public company. Shareholders aren't satisfied with profits being substantial, but flat every year. Profits must continuously increase or your stock price goes down. I agree that it's immoral, but that's capitalism. The $ comes before the person in most cases. And really... why should a company be compelled to employ 8,700 people it feels it can do without?

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

  • Myung Protege Wannabe
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8179
  • Gender: Male
  • Maurice Moss: Cooler than you
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2012, 08:05:40 AM »
unemployed people with little money don't invest in the economy

Offline yorost

  • Inactive
  • Posts: 7862
  • Gender: Male
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2012, 08:15:47 AM »
1.5 millions

----------

If they can accomplish the same thing with that many fewer jobs, then maybe they should shed them.  If companies held on to workforces that weren't accomplishing them anything then they're nothing but a charity that prevents a segment of population from being productive.

It's a balance, we don't want companies to needlessly hold on to jobs, we want them to be efficient at what they do.  Expecting them to follow bad practices in their good times is only setting them up to fail when they fall on bad times.  The problem is we want those workers to be put to use elsewhere.  Right now, that isn't happening so much, so moves like this piss people off.  If we had really low unemployment it would be fine, almost all of those people would land somewhere else quickly.

Offline Chino

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 25325
  • Gender: Male
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2012, 08:34:56 AM »
1.5 millions

----------

If they can accomplish the same thing with that many fewer jobs, then maybe they should shed them. 

I get that. If Pepsi was losing money and had to cut operating costs, I wouldn't have a problem with this. But the fact that people are content with putting 8,700 people out of work, probably half of which wont be able find work for another 6+ months, just makes me sad. Pepsi makes money hand over fist, and dropping that many employees just to stuff more money into already stuffed pockets is kind of lame. I know I am in the wrong here, and the company isn't doing anything illegal, but it's just a bummer. Now if Pepsi said that of that 1.5 billion in savings, they'd donate 1 billion of it to school systems around the country, I wouldn't get upset, but doing it for the obvious sake of taking home a bigger cut next quarter really sucks.

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30697
  • Bad Craziness
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2012, 08:49:31 AM »
I agree with Yorost.  If a job becomes obsolete,  then paying somebody to do it is simply charity.  This is a problem we're all going to face pretty soon. 

And by the way,  it's not Pepsico that sets the price on your school's vending machines.  It's the vendor who got the contract,  and he'll price them as high as people will pay.  His cost per can is the same as it is in a machine down the street which sells them for 75¢.  Same as Akmed running the local stop-and-rob.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline yorost

  • Inactive
  • Posts: 7862
  • Gender: Male
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2012, 08:49:59 AM »
1.5 millions

----------

If they can accomplish the same thing with that many fewer jobs, then maybe they should shed them. 

I get that. If Pepsi was losing money and had to cut operating costs, I wouldn't have a problem with this. But the fact that people are content with putting 8,700 people out of work, probably half of which wont be able find work for another 6+ months, just makes me sad. Pepsi makes money hand over fist, and dropping that many employees just to stuff more money into already stuffed pockets is kind of lame. I know I am in the wrong here, and the company isn't doing anything illegal, but it's just a bummer. Now if Pepsi said that of that 1.5 billion in savings, they'd donate 1 billion of it to school systems around the country, I wouldn't get upset, but doing it for the obvious sake of taking home a bigger cut next quarter really sucks.
If they get unemployment during that period then it isn't quite that bad for them.  It's one thing to feel bad someone lost their job, I do, but that doesn't mean Pepsi should be expected to be a charity as part of its business practice.  If they wait until they're in trouble to reorganize they might be too late.

Oh, and that $1.75 bottle of Pepsi you buy on campus, that is where Pepsi is throwing money to your school.  They bid for a right to be the exclusive product.  Pepsi replaced Coke at a school I was at because of the amount of money they offered for the right.  If schools allowed competitive vending machines you'd probably see a much cheaper product.  Although, I'm not certain this function is the same company as in the article.  CocaCola, for instance, is many different companies even though we think of it as one.  Local distribution and bottling is not something the actual CocaCola does.

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30697
  • Bad Craziness
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2012, 08:54:34 AM »
Oh, and that $1.75 bottle of Pepsi you buy on campus, that is where Pepsi is throwing money to your school.  They bid for a right to be the exclusive product.  Pepsi replaced Coke at a school I was at because of the amount of money they offered for the right.  If schools allowed competitive vending machines you'd probably see a much cheaper product.  Although, I'm not certain this function is the same company as in the article.  CocaCola, for instance, is many different companies even though we think of it as one.  Local distribution and bottling is not something the actual CocaCola does.
Didn't realize that's how it works in schools.  Down here,  vending machines are operated by outside companies.  You'll often see a Coke, Pepsi, and Dr. Pepper machine right next to each other.  All the prices are the same since people will drink what they prefer, not what costs 10¢ less.  Usually the brand of machine is just a function of who got there first,  if there's not going to be sufficient demand for more than one. 
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline GuineaPig

  • Posts: 3754
  • Gender: Male
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2012, 09:01:03 AM »
Oh, and that $1.75 bottle of Pepsi you buy on campus, that is where Pepsi is throwing money to your school.  They bid for a right to be the exclusive product.  Pepsi replaced Coke at a school I was at because of the amount of money they offered for the right.  If schools allowed competitive vending machines you'd probably see a much cheaper product.  Although, I'm not certain this function is the same company as in the article.  CocaCola, for instance, is many different companies even though we think of it as one.  Local distribution and bottling is not something the actual CocaCola does.
Didn't realize that's how it works in schools.  Down here,  vending machines are operated by outside companies.  You'll often see a Coke, Pepsi, and Dr. Pepper machine right next to each other.  All the prices are the same since people will drink what they prefer, not what costs 10¢ less.  Usually the brand of machine is just a function of who got there first,  if there's not going to be sufficient demand for more than one.

Companies will offer substantial amounts of cash for exclusive rights.  A school's not going to pass on that, regardless of what it might do to the pop prices for their students.
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea."

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30697
  • Bad Craziness
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2012, 09:02:45 AM »
Oh, and that $1.75 bottle of Pepsi you buy on campus, that is where Pepsi is throwing money to your school.  They bid for a right to be the exclusive product.  Pepsi replaced Coke at a school I was at because of the amount of money they offered for the right.  If schools allowed competitive vending machines you'd probably see a much cheaper product.  Although, I'm not certain this function is the same company as in the article.  CocaCola, for instance, is many different companies even though we think of it as one.  Local distribution and bottling is not something the actual CocaCola does.
Didn't realize that's how it works in schools.  Down here,  vending machines are operated by outside companies.  You'll often see a Coke, Pepsi, and Dr. Pepper machine right next to each other.  All the prices are the same since people will drink what they prefer, not what costs 10¢ less.  Usually the brand of machine is just a function of who got there first,  if there's not going to be sufficient demand for more than one.

Companies will offer substantial amounts of cash for exclusive rights.  A school's not going to pass on that, regardless of what it might do to the pop prices for their students.
That makes sense,  but I don't see competitive pricing making a huge difference in that instance.  In the pricing area we're talking about,  preference is more important than cost.  If I feel like a Sprite instead of a Dr. Pepper,  I'll pop the extra quarter. 
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline yorost

  • Inactive
  • Posts: 7862
  • Gender: Male
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2012, 09:03:58 AM »
Didn't realize that's how it works in schools.  Down here,  vending machines are operated by outside companies.  You'll often see a Coke, Pepsi, and Dr. Pepper machine right next to each other.  All the prices are the same since people will drink what they prefer, not what costs 10¢ less.  Usually the brand of machine is just a function of who got there first,  if there's not going to be sufficient demand for more than one. 
I think it's a package deal, including all the advertising the school might sell to them at things like sporting events.  I imagine the contract secures the right for a Pepsi vendor to handle vending, I'm not sure.  No idea what the amount was, but it was big money as I remember.  Basically, the school switched from seeing CocaCola all over to seeing Pepsi all over.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2012, 09:14:17 AM »
I agree with the overall notion that if a company has superfluous workforce, it needs to get rid of it. Keeping them on will ultimately translate in higher prices and thus lack of competitiveness.

rumborak
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline jsem

  • Posts: 4912
  • Gender: Male
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2012, 09:23:41 AM »
In the long run, it's better to let the laying off operate. Some people do get hurt, but in the long run everyone is better off with restructuring to make a business more profitable.

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2012, 01:12:33 PM »
I'm fine with the cutting of jobs, but what's more suspect is the amount of money the CEO and shareholders can rake it, while their workers probably see very little of the fruits of their labor.


Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8521
  • Gender: Male
  • Bryce & Kylie's Grandpa
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2012, 01:34:58 PM »
I know this a political or religuos matter, but I wanted to post this in this section anyway because I feel like politics will come into play eventually. I kind of just want to rant about this and see if others feel like I do.

Quote
PepsiCo announced plans on Thursday to cut about 8,700 jobs as part of an effort to save some $1.5 billion in costs.

The job cuts are happening even as Chief Executive Indra Nooyi said the company experienced 8% annual growth in earnings per share over the last five years, and returned about $30 billion to shareholders in the form of dividends and share repurchases.


This really irritates the shit out of me. I understand that it is a companies job to make as much money for their shareholders as possible, but it seems so imoral to me. I could be wrong here, but the CEO of Pepsi has one of the highest slaries of any US company. I am willing to bet that this 1.5 billion in savings won't change the $1.75 price tag of a pepsi in the vending machines on my campus. Why does someone, who is already rich as fuck, need to let 8,700 people go? I get that this is standard business practice, but I am in a shit mood this morning, and seeing this article just pissed me off.

https://money.cnn.com/2012/02/09/news/companies/pepsi_jobs/index.htm?iid=HP_LN

Well, I understand why you're mad, I guess, but the primary objective of ANY business is to make money for the shareholders.  If letting 8,700 people go increases profits without causing too much damage to the company in terms of image, then from a purely sterile business standpoint, it's sound policy.

It sucks that a lot of people are going to lose their jobs, but that's how things work, unfortunately. 

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2012, 06:30:54 PM »
I know this a political or religuos matter, but I wanted to post this in this section anyway because I feel like politics will come into play eventually. I kind of just want to rant about this and see if others feel like I do.

Quote
PepsiCo announced plans on Thursday to cut about 8,700 jobs as part of an effort to save some $1.5 billion in costs.

The job cuts are happening even as Chief Executive Indra Nooyi said the company experienced 8% annual growth in earnings per share over the last five years, and returned about $30 billion to shareholders in the form of dividends and share repurchases.


This really irritates the shit out of me. I understand that it is a companies job to make as much money for their shareholders as possible, but it seems so imoral to me. I could be wrong here, but the CEO of Pepsi has one of the highest slaries of any US company. I am willing to bet that this 1.5 billion in savings won't change the $1.75 price tag of a pepsi in the vending machines on my campus. Why does someone, who is already rich as fuck, need to let 8,700 people go? I get that this is standard business practice, but I am in a shit mood this morning, and seeing this article just pissed me off.

https://money.cnn.com/2012/02/09/news/companies/pepsi_jobs/index.htm?iid=HP_LN

And I hate to bring this up, but this exemplifies one of many reasons why a nation should not be run like a corporation. That said, people in this thread who've been saying that the company's main goal is profit not welfare are correct. If that's what they needed to do to profit, that's just the name of the capitalism game, baby. However, that also happens to be the reason that government regulation is not so terrible all of the time.
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Online Jamesman42

  • There you'll find me
  • DT.net Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21833
  • Spiral OUT
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2012, 11:33:33 PM »
This is a problem we're all going to face pretty soon. 

OT, but what do you mean by this?

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13601
  • Gender: Male
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2012, 09:15:54 AM »
And I hate to bring this up, but this exemplifies one of many reasons why a nation should not be run like a corporation.

I don’t mean to read something in to what you wrote if it wasn’t intended, but do you mean to imply a government should employ people even when it is not financially prudent or efficient to do so?
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2012, 09:32:49 AM »
And I hate to bring this up, but this exemplifies one of many reasons why a nation should not be run like a corporation.

I don’t mean to read something in to what you wrote if it wasn’t intended, but do you mean to imply a government should employ people even when it is not financially prudent or efficient to do so?

No no, not at all. Although that's not to say that government should necessarily aspire to the level of efficiency expected of corporate capitalism. That is to say, the priorities are different, and sometimes there are other reasons that make it necessary to take the less efficient route. Which again, is not to say that governments should do so because the alternative is a little "icky," but that when they do so, sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that actually result in a better outcome than depicted by a stark economic calculation.
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline TempusVox

  • Descendant of Primus
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5503
  • Gender: Male
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2012, 10:05:29 AM »
1.5 millions

----------

If they can accomplish the same thing with that many fewer jobs, then maybe they should shed them.  If companies held on to workforces that weren't accomplishing them anything then they're nothing but a charity that prevents a segment of population from being productive.

It's a balance, we don't want companies to needlessly hold on to jobs, we want them to be efficient at what they do.  Expecting them to follow bad practices in their good times is only setting them up to fail when they fall on bad times.  The problem is we want those workers to be put to use elsewhere.  Right now, that isn't happening so much, so moves like this piss people off.  If we had really low unemployment it would be fine, almost all of those people would land somewhere else quickly.

THIS precisely. I'm also curious as to how many of those workers are union employees? My guess is that it's the majority of them, and if you dug even further I'd be willing to bet that the company has asked them to make concessions for quite some time, and the union has refused. Companies don't just typically jump right into reducing force without trying many different cost cutting measures first. Over time the company will save money but there is a cost to a RIF as well, even though it's usually annualized right away. When I practiced law, nearly every client I had that was needing to reduce force was unionized. I realize that economic times have changed since then, but it's been a long held practice for most unions that they would rather see people lose jobs, than make concessions. Why? In the end the unions only care about dues. If a company asks for and receives concessions, the union looks weak to it's members and if it's an open shop, they lose those members. If the company does a RIF, the union can claim they fought for the workers, but in the end that evil company just didn't give a damn. It's all bullshit. Union leadership by and large doesn't give a rats patootie about the people they claim to represent, with the exception of the dues they pay.
You don't HAVE a soul.You ARE a soul.You HAVE a body.
"I came here to drink milk and kick ass; and I just finished my milk."

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2012, 03:28:08 PM »
1.5 millions

----------

If they can accomplish the same thing with that many fewer jobs, then maybe they should shed them.  If companies held on to workforces that weren't accomplishing them anything then they're nothing but a charity that prevents a segment of population from being productive.

It's a balance, we don't want companies to needlessly hold on to jobs, we want them to be efficient at what they do.  Expecting them to follow bad practices in their good times is only setting them up to fail when they fall on bad times.  The problem is we want those workers to be put to use elsewhere.  Right now, that isn't happening so much, so moves like this piss people off.  If we had really low unemployment it would be fine, almost all of those people would land somewhere else quickly.

THIS precisely. I'm also curious as to how many of those workers are union employees? My guess is that it's the majority of them, and if you dug even further I'd be willing to bet that the company has asked them to make concessions for quite some time, and the union has refused. Companies don't just typically jump right into reducing force without trying many different cost cutting measures first. Over time the company will save money but there is a cost to a RIF as well, even though it's usually annualized right away. When I practiced law, nearly every client I had that was needing to reduce force was unionized. I realize that economic times have changed since then, but it's been a long held practice for most unions that they would rather see people lose jobs, than make concessions. Why? In the end the unions only care about dues. If a company asks for and receives concessions, the union looks weak to it's members and if it's an open shop, they lose those members. If the company does a RIF, the union can claim they fought for the workers, but in the end that evil company just didn't give a damn. It's all bullshit. Union leadership by and large doesn't give a rats patootie about the people they claim to represent, with the exception of the dues they pay.

Or perhaps technology is allowing them to do away with workers they no longer need, or other improvements, etc.

I'm sure union leadership is a hell of a lot more caring about the people they represent than the executives and CEO's running the place. It's sorta weird to see greed be brought up as a reason to despise unions, when the people they are fighting are greedier by far. There's tons of companies and employers who avoid labor disputes, and tons of labor unions who recognize the need for concessions - when there is an actual need. If the executives aren't raking in millions of dollars in bonuses, then the labor force is going to be much more willing to compromise. The problem is, the debate is mostly about growth or more growth - NOT growth or decay. If labor should be expected to make compromises in the name of efficiency and to avoid bankruptcy, then executives should be expected to compromise on their salaries in bonuses in a time of excess. It needs to be fair, in other words.

Offline TempusVox

  • Descendant of Primus
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5503
  • Gender: Male
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2012, 04:02:55 PM »

I'm sure union leadership is a hell of a lot more caring about the people they represent than the executives and CEO's running the place. It's sorta weird to see greed be brought up as a reason to despise unions, when the people they are fighting are greedier by far.

You obviously have never been involved in negotiating a union contract to say something like that. Either that or you belong to a union. Unions might have worked for a minute back when companies chained their workers to their equipment, but that time has loooong since passed. Unions today (and for a long time now) have done litle more than given the illusion to "care' about the people they represent in order to pad their own pockets. They exploit time and again a fairly significant uneducated base of members, who still believe that the 'Union" is going to save them from big daddy boss man. Unions are why we have no manufacturing based economy in this country any longer. I have sat with these people and watched them do actual harm to the people they claim to represent countless times. I have seen company, after company, after company who have sat down and honestly and in earnest tried to do the very best for their employees, and I've seen union reps actually sell out their own members in order to get some crazy assed concession that either A) gives the illusion that without the union the employees would have nothing, or B) makes the company look bad intenionally to drive membership in an open shop. I've seen it dozens upon dozens of times.

I actually worked with a small company that had the WORST union of all (SEIU) represnt it's employees. It was an open shop, and they had a rep who was constantly trying to circumvent the contract. The contract clearly stipulated that the rep could visit the facility one day each month on a "mutually agreed upon" date and time, for the sole purpose of meeting with the COMPANY representatives. She instead would call the company and tell them a day in advance when she was GOING to be there, and then would NEVER show. She would then tell her members the company changed the time, which wasn't true. The company hired my firm, and asked me to be the point person for them. The managers had very little union experience. She was of course livid, because I held her to the terms of the contract. I told her without it, we had nothing. So I would let her know if her proposed days and times would work, and then once we mutually agree upon a day and time, she would not show up. I'd be there, but she wouldn't show. OR she would want to come out and meet with employees in order to hold elections (to select her as rep again). I refused. No part of the contract allowed her to come and disrupt the entire day for the employees. She basically wanted to halt production for a day and meet with everybody. I told her no. She threatened to file greivance after greivance after grievance. She never did. When it came time for negotiations we (the company) were prepared to offer a modest increase, and we also were going to allow union staff into the companies retirement plan (by law they have to be included now), but back then they had some really poor pension plan that up until then the union DEMANDED they get. It was horrible. I recall the owner of the company saying how upset he was about their pension plan. Contract after contract the union insisted they keep their worthless plan. It was crazy. They of course wanted he moon. Initially they wanted to triple the employees wages. It was ludicrous. We were near the end of the negotiations, we were actually giving them alot more than their rep from the SEIU was asking for them (except the triple salary). I went through my spiel about everything we had agreed upon and the rep looks across the table and says to me..."We'll take everything off the table if you give me access to the plant every Monday from 2-4pm to meet with members to discus issues or grievances." I actually said "Why would you do that to your people?" She just looked at me. I then said we needed to excuse ourselves and give her and the employee reps a chance to talk things over. We came back about 20 minutes later, and you could tell her people were upset, and a bit confused. She said the deal still stood. I probably shouldn't have, because it could have been seen that technically I was now negotiating on the union members behalf, but I wanted to make sure the employees knew what this meant. They were pissed, but she had worn them down. I'm sure she promised them some ridiculous bullshit benefit from this. Her whole intention was to increase membership. Being an open shop the union only had about 250 out of 500 workers. I asked once again, if they knew that HER proposal meant that EVERYTHING came off the table and all they got was her access. She said, "They know, they don't need some schiester lawyer to explain it to them." I said,"Maybe not, but I think somebody who actually cares about them probably should." She just glared at me. So I rewrote the new contract, and we both signed it. Over the course of the next week. 140 people submitted their withdrawal from the union. She had sold them out. Because membership fell so much, she NEVER came to visit the facility on Mondays, even though she had the conference room booked every Monday from 2-4. Now we could have said no, but in all honesty we were hoping the union could be de-certified, and sure enough about 15 months later, they were.

As for reducing salary... CEO's are usually the brightest and the best, and they don't come cheap. I'm amazed at how many people assume CEO's dont take pay cuts when times are bad or lean for companies. Most often do. Every company I ever represented ALWAYS looked to reduce costs through some fashion either by reducing or right sizing benefits for executives first, or some other means of cost control BEFORE they ever even thought of laying workers off.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 04:09:54 PM by TempusVox »
You don't HAVE a soul.You ARE a soul.You HAVE a body.
"I came here to drink milk and kick ass; and I just finished my milk."

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

  • Myung Protege Wannabe
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8179
  • Gender: Male
  • Maurice Moss: Cooler than you
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2012, 05:34:35 PM »

As for reducing salary... CEO's are usually the brightest and the best, and they don't come cheap. I'm amazed at how many people assume CEO's dont take pay cuts when times are bad or lean for companies. Most often do. Every company I ever represented ALWAYS looked to reduce costs through some fashion either by reducing or right sizing benefits for executives first, or some other means of cost control BEFORE they ever even thought of laying workers off.

But they still get paid hundreds of times more than their underlings. Which is wrong

Offline Dr. DTVT

  • DTF's resident Mad Scientist
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9526
  • Gender: Male
  • What's your favorite planet? Mine's the Sun!
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2012, 11:19:52 PM »

As for reducing salary... CEO's are usually the brightest and the best, and they don't come cheap. I'm amazed at how many people assume CEO's dont take pay cuts when times are bad or lean for companies. Most often do. Every company I ever represented ALWAYS looked to reduce costs through some fashion either by reducing or right sizing benefits for executives first, or some other means of cost control BEFORE they ever even thought of laying workers off.

But they still get paid hundreds of times more than their underlings. Which is wrong

I hate siding with corporations, but the people who make the big money for the company earn the big money.  I haven't thought about what fair compensation for a CEO of a multi-million (and possibly billion) dollar corporation is, but I know it's a hell of a lot more than what the guy who moves the HFCS off the truck and to the formulation chamber makes.
     

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53179
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2012, 03:39:42 AM »

As for reducing salary... CEO's are usually the brightest and the best, and they don't come cheap. I'm amazed at how many people assume CEO's dont take pay cuts when times are bad or lean for companies. Most often do. Every company I ever represented ALWAYS looked to reduce costs through some fashion either by reducing or right sizing benefits for executives first, or some other means of cost control BEFORE they ever even thought of laying workers off.

But they still get paid hundreds of times more than their underlings. Which is wrong
Not necessarily.  It depends.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2012, 06:25:10 AM »
Well sure it makes sense that corporate heads like CFOs and CEOs get paid more than their underlings, but the gap between those incomes has gotten so ridiculously huge that it leads to the wrongness PLM senses, and which I share. According to the GINI coefficient; we're about as bad as China. We shouldn't have to worry about the economic disparity in our country becoming as bad as a third world country.
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59453
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2012, 07:13:34 AM »
I have more of a problem when they fail and have this huge CEO Severance Packages.  You fails and your set for the rest of your life.  We'd all be rich now wouldn't we?

I understand it's a contract but their buyouts are way to costly.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

  • Myung Protege Wannabe
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8179
  • Gender: Male
  • Maurice Moss: Cooler than you
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2012, 09:17:46 AM »
Well sure it makes sense that corporate heads like CFOs and CEOs get paid more than their underlings, but the gap between those incomes has gotten so ridiculously huge that it leads to the wrongness PLM senses, and which I share. According to the GINI coefficient; we're about as bad as China. We shouldn't have to worry about the economic disparity in our country becoming as bad as a third world country.

This is more what I'm talking about. Income inequality has gotten so bad in this country and it's mostly based around the CEO's of these corporations. They get yearly pay increases and bonuses over the millions they already make. Where's my yearly pay increase? I get no bonuses, no matter how good I am at my job.

My view isn't limited to CEO's, etc. I've yet to hear a good explanation as to why football players get paid multi million dollar contracts. Same with every other sport. If you can truly justify that to me, I'll accept it. Same with CEO's. If you can convince me as to why people like Warren Buffet/ Bill Gates/etc. truly deserve the billions they made I'll shut up.

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2012, 09:23:17 AM »
Well sure it makes sense that corporate heads like CFOs and CEOs get paid more than their underlings, but the gap between those incomes has gotten so ridiculously huge that it leads to the wrongness PLM senses, and which I share. According to the GINI coefficient; we're about as bad as China. We shouldn't have to worry about the economic disparity in our country becoming as bad as a third world country.

This is more what I'm talking about. Income inequality has gotten so bad in this country and it's mostly based around the CEO's of these corporations. They get yearly pay increases and bonuses over the millions they already make. Where's my yearly pay increase? I get no bonuses, no matter how good I am at my job.

My view isn't limited to CEO's, etc. I've yet to hear a good explanation as to why football players get paid multi million dollar contracts. Same with every other sport. If you can truly justify that to me, I'll accept it. Same with CEO's. If you can convince me as to why people like Warren Buffet/ Bill Gates/etc. truly deserve the billions they made I'll shut up.

This; in his position, my dad improves hundreds of lives each year (if he can't save them, which in most cases he sadly can't), yet his salary is nothing next to a football player. How many lives does a football player touch?
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59453
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2012, 09:36:25 AM »
Unfortunately it is a supply and demand world and I'm adding to it going to Football games all the time.  So I guess if you can get it good for them but it has gone out of control.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline ReaPsTA

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 11204
  • Gender: Male
  • Addicted to the pain
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2012, 12:04:44 PM »
I've yet to hear a good explanation as to why football players get paid multi million dollar contracts. Same with every other sport. If you can truly justify that to me, I'll accept it. Same with CEO's. If you can convince me as to why people like Warren Buffet/ Bill Gates/etc. truly deserve the billions they made I'll shut up.

Because the abilities of football players are so rare.  The highest paid Quarterbacks in the league are Peyton Manning , Brady, Vick, Eli Manning, Rivers, Cassel, Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Roethlisberger, and Sanchez.  Now, let's discard Cassel, Ryan, Bradbord and Sanchez.  These guys are definitely overpaid.  Especially Sanchez.

With the other seven guys, you have seven of the best eight Quarterbacks in the league (Brees wasn't on this list).  Their talents are irreplaceable.  There isn't some quarterback just as good as them that could take their place.  You pay millions of dollars per year for their services because the supply is so small (one of only eight guys) relative to the value they give you (being a legitimate football franchise).

Here's another way to look at it.  Kobe Bryant makes somewhere over 20 million dollars per year from the Lakers.  I haven't heard this personally, but the word is that Kobe makes the Lakers about 120 million dollars per year.  Based on that, I would argue that he's underpaid.

I'm sure union leadership is a hell of a lot more caring about the people they represent than the executives and CEO's running the place.

My dad works in a union.  He would get a good laugh out of this.  Or he'd just get angry.
Take a chance you may die
Over and over again

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

  • Myung Protege Wannabe
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8179
  • Gender: Male
  • Maurice Moss: Cooler than you
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2012, 12:18:11 PM »
I've yet to hear a good explanation as to why football players get paid multi million dollar contracts. Same with every other sport. If you can truly justify that to me, I'll accept it. Same with CEO's. If you can convince me as to why people like Warren Buffet/ Bill Gates/etc. truly deserve the billions they made I'll shut up.

Because the abilities of football players are so rare.  The highest paid Quarterbacks in the league are Peyton Manning , Brady, Vick, Eli Manning, Rivers, Cassel, Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Roethlisberger, and Sanchez.  Now, let's discard Cassel, Ryan, Bradbord and Sanchez.  These guys are definitely overpaid.  Especially Sanchez.

With the other seven guys, you have seven of the best eight Quarterbacks in the league (Brees wasn't on this list).  Their talents are irreplaceable.  There isn't some quarterback just as good as them that could take their place.  You pay millions of dollars per year for their services because the supply is so small (one of only eight guys) relative to the value they give you (being a legitimate football franchise).

Here's another way to look at it.  Kobe Bryant makes somewhere over 20 million dollars per year from the Lakers.  I haven't heard this personally, but the word is that Kobe makes the Lakers about 120 million dollars per year.  Based on that, I would argue that he's underpaid.


So, because they're the best, they deserve the money? I'm not arguing they shouldn't get paid. But they shouldn't get paid what they do. None of them.

SD's dad, for example, may be the best at whatever he does. But is he earning 20 million a year for it? No. So why the huge dollar amounts?

Offline ReaPsTA

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 11204
  • Gender: Male
  • Addicted to the pain
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2012, 12:31:08 PM »
So, because they're the best, they deserve the money? I'm not arguing they shouldn't get paid. But they shouldn't get paid what they do. None of them.

SD's dad, for example, may be the best at whatever he does. But is he earning 20 million a year for it? No. So why the huge dollar amounts?

What does Super Dude's dad do?  I don't want to assume anything about his replacability.

But I can pretty safely talk about economic scope.  The most valuable football team, the Cowboys, is worth 1.85 billion dollars.  Even the least valuable team, the Jaguars, is worth $725 million.  Whatever SD's dad does, I don't think that much money is at stake.

Also, why is it "wrong" for Michael Vick to make as much as he does?  I think he might have been overvalued as a football player, but your posts imply you think there's a moral issue.
Take a chance you may die
Over and over again

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2012, 01:46:10 PM »
But why is a football team worth so much? Why should it be?
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline The King in Crimson

  • Stuck in a glass dome since 1914!
  • Posts: 4002
  • Gender: Male
  • Mr. Sandman, Give Me A Dream
Re: PepsiCo to cut 8,700 jobs
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2012, 02:42:18 PM »

As for reducing salary... CEO's are usually the brightest and the best, and they don't come cheap. I'm amazed at how many people assume CEO's dont take pay cuts when times are bad or lean for companies. Most often do. Every company I ever represented ALWAYS looked to reduce costs through some fashion either by reducing or right sizing benefits for executives first, or some other means of cost control BEFORE they ever even thought of laying workers off.

But they still get paid hundreds of times more than their underlings. Which is wrong

I hate siding with corporations, but the people who make the big money for the company earn the big money.  I haven't thought about what fair compensation for a CEO of a multi-million (and possibly billion) dollar corporation is, but I know it's a hell of a lot more than what the guy who moves the HFCS off the truck and to the formulation chamber makes.
I really don't mind that CEO's make shit-tons of money. What I do mind is when those CEO's make shit-tons of money after their company fails or does poorly.  Usually when a company fails, it seems like the people at the bottom are the most screwed and usually they have nothing to do with why it fails, while the guys up top get some sweet severance package or hand out bonuses as the lay off tons of workers.  Granted, not every business does this, but as the economy crash of '08 showed us, the people in charge didn't get screwed, everyone else did. 

I do have a problem with that.

But why is a football team worth so much? Why should it be?
The American people think it's worth that much, really, which says a lot about our priorities where we, arguably, value entertainment over, say, research or medicine.