Author Topic: I walked out of church today.  (Read 13496 times)

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Offline eric42434224

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I walked out of church today.
« on: January 29, 2012, 05:46:16 PM »
So I went to church today.  My daughter goes to Catholic School, and my wife teaches there.  It is catholic schools week, and my kid was doing something in the beginning, and the teachers are recognized too.  So I went and brought my other daughter.  They have a new priest who is younger, and my wife says he is more in tune with the younger parishoners.
So he starts in with his sermon, and it deals with a letter from the archbishop, saying the catholic church and its members are under attack.  He starts on a diatribe about how the government will be forcing all of the catholics, and catholic business owners to get health insurance...and that since health insurance allows for coverage for things like birth control and abortion...it is essentially forcing catholics to do something directly against their beliefs and taking away their god given rights.
So was I wrong to walk out?  I am baptised catholic, but do not believe in christianity.  I wanted to say something today, but walked out instead.  I dont understand why you need to address that issue at church...especially when I think it is completely wrong.   I have to go to church, I would like to hear about some teachings of Jesus, as he did have some great ideas. 

Why would the catholic church think mandatory health insurance is forcing them to abandon their faith and take away their right of freedom of religion?  Dont pretty much all health insurance plans allow coverage for birth control and/or abortion?  Dont pretty much all insured catholics have plans that allow this?  And isnt it forcing their beliefs on non-catholics by wanting the government to cease with insurance that covers these things? 
Why cant they just not use birth control or get abortions?  Isnt that plenty to satisfy the rules of their faith?

I was just blown away by the bombastic and loud sermon dealing with this subject.  Yet another reason I avoid religion in general.

Thoughts?  Am I off base?
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2012, 06:00:29 PM »
Catholics.

*shrugs*
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Offline Ħ

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2012, 06:08:19 PM »
Because the Catholic Church is very political. It's always been that way.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2012, 06:20:45 PM »
Err, I don't think the CC is in any way worse than the Protestant churches as a whole. Actually, if anything I would say the CC is meddling less in national political affairs than the Protestant ones.

It shouldn't surprise though. The fact that priests have the privilege of holding sermons over hundreds (or even thousands) of people kinda makes them politicians. Which means they will try to exert power over their congregations. One (lamentable) aspect is that they are considered beyond reproach, so raising a stink during mass is not gonna fly well.

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« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 06:27:42 PM by rumborak »
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2012, 06:28:27 PM »
Err, I don't think the CC is in any way worse than the Protestant churches as a whole. Actually, if anything I would say the CC is meddling less in national political affairs than the Protestant ones.
Yes, because look at all of those Crusades started by Lutherans and Methodists.
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Offline yeshaberto

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2012, 06:55:26 PM »
This is a sad example of why Jesus despised religion

Offline eric42434224

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2012, 06:58:57 PM »
This is a sad example of why Jesus despised religion

What do you honestly think Jesus would have thought about what I witnessed today?
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Online Chino

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2012, 06:59:19 PM »
You did a good thing by walking out today.

Offline emindead

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2012, 07:44:57 PM »
This is a sad example of why Jesus despised religion
This. He despised it so much, so much that He, personally, founded the Catholic Church. Sodom and Gomorrah have nothing like this token of anger.

@OP: you were wrong.

Offline Omega

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2012, 07:49:14 PM »
Why doesn't the Catholic Church approve of abortions?

Because it is the willful killing of an unborn.
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Offline yeshaberto

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2012, 07:57:26 PM »
This is a sad example of why Jesus despised religion

What do you honestly think Jesus would have thought about what I witnessed today?

I base it on how he reacted in john 2.  Politics and Christianity do not combine well

Offline William Wallace

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2012, 08:04:41 PM »
This is a sad example of why Jesus despised religion
Nah, I wouldn't go that far. Jesus told the apostles to establish the Church. What we've done to it is another subject.

To the op, it was good of you to leave. As to his fear of having his rights violated, I doubt anything would come of it. The Catholic Church would jump up the legal system's ass, and a judge would probably strike down any mandatory requirement on religious grounds. That's if Obama care is ever fully implemented.

Offline Omega

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2012, 08:13:35 PM »
This is a sad example of why Jesus despised religion

Religion is morally neutral. It can be abused just like science or politics, etc.
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2012, 08:21:29 PM »
This is a sad example of why Jesus despised religion
This. He despised it so much, so much that He, personally, founded the Catholic Church. Sodom and Gomorrah have nothing like this token of anger.

@OP: you were wrong.

I was wrong about what?  Walking out?  Why?
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2012, 08:23:27 PM »
edit:  nevermind.
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Offline Dr. DTVT

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2012, 08:35:25 PM »
They are opposed to free health care because it will mean more access to rape checks for little boys.

All kidding aside, walking out was certainly the most appropriate action.  For all anyone knew you had to go to the bathroom REALLY bad.  Causing a disturbance wouldn't have been the answer, and hopefully one or two people figured out what you were doing and you got them to think independently for a minute.
     

Offline eric42434224

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2012, 08:43:17 PM »
They are opposed to free health care because it will mean more access to rape checks for little boys.

All kidding aside, walking out was certainly the most appropriate action.  For all anyone knew you had to go to the bathroom REALLY bad.  Causing a disturbance wouldn't have been the answer, and hopefully one or two people figured out what you were doing and you got them to think independently for a minute.

I think most thought I was taking my 2 yr old to the bathroom.  Hopefully, some saw me shaking my head during the diatribe, and saw that I left before it was over...not to return.
I will now treat this church as a place I will only go to when absolutely required for my kids school or my wifes work at the school.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2012, 08:44:28 PM »
Err, I don't think the CC is in any way worse than the Protestant churches as a whole. Actually, if anything I would say the CC is meddling less in national political affairs than the Protestant ones.
Yes, because look at all of those Crusades started by Lutherans and Methodists.

I was more commenting on contemporary affairs. Kinda hard to compare the two over the whole time frame when one has only existed for a few hundred years. But yes, overall, the CC has meddled more.

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Offline yeshaberto

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2012, 09:44:24 PM »
This is a sad example of why Jesus despised religion
Nah, I wouldn't go that far. Jesus told the apostles to establish the Church. What we've done to it is another subject.

To the op, it was good of you to leave. As to his fear of having his rights violated, I doubt anything would come of it. The Catholic Church would jump up the legal system's ass, and a judge would probably strike down any mandatory requirement on religious grounds. That's if Obama care is ever fully implemented.

Maybe I am missing a passage but I don't remember Jesus asking to establish the church.   I remember jesus saying he will build his church in mt 16.   I think this distinction is the root of the problem

Offline William Wallace

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2012, 11:32:30 PM »
This is a sad example of why Jesus despised religion
Nah, I wouldn't go that far. Jesus told the apostles to establish the Church. What we've done to it is another subject.

To the op, it was good of you to leave. As to his fear of having his rights violated, I doubt anything would come of it. The Catholic Church would jump up the legal system's ass, and a judge would probably strike down any mandatory requirement on religious grounds. That's if Obama care is ever fully implemented.


Maybe I am missing a passage but I don't remember Jesus asking to establish the church.   I remember jesus saying he will build his church in mt 16.   I think this distinction is the root of the problem
Right. The passage is pretty clear, isn't it?

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Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Offline the Catfishman

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2012, 01:04:42 AM »
eh, Catholics can still not get abortionist right? nobody is forcing them? If it's about the tax money being used than they shouldn't just start with this health care plan... 'their' money also funds public schools who teach evolution/safe sex,  research using stem cells and scholarships which are used to educate new abortion doctors...etc

I think it's insane that Christians in particular are so much against this health care plan, I thought they were all for helping the sick and poor.

Offline eric42434224

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2012, 04:11:00 AM »
eh, Catholics can still not get abortionist right? nobody is forcing them? If it's about the tax money being used than they shouldn't just start with this health care plan... 'their' money also funds public schools who teach evolution/safe sex,  research using stem cells and scholarships which are used to educate new abortion doctors...etc

I think it's insane that Christians in particular are so much against this health care plan, I thought they were all for helping the sick and poor.

Its funny how you mention that.  The priest prefaced the speech by saying that catholics have no discrimination in who they will help.  If you are sick, they will feed you.  If you are naked they will cloth you.  If you are homeless, they will shelter you.  The catholics will help you regardless of your religion, race, etc.

Except if you need healthcare to take care of yourself and your family, and happen to want to practice birth control, or dont subscribe to the catholic view on abortion.  Then the catholics want you to have no option if you cant get insurance on your own.
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Offline snapple

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2012, 06:37:43 AM »
You did the right thing. No need to stay and listen to a church get political.

Offline Implode

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2012, 10:24:51 AM »
In my experiences bad sermons like that have everything to do with the priest giving them. It's just the differences between different people. Some priests will stay out of politics like that, and others will make a point to tell people exactly what to do.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2012, 12:31:53 PM »
This thread touches on reason 1,259 why I have never and will never go to any church. 

I don't need some clergyman setting my moral compass for me.



Offline William Wallace

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2012, 03:24:16 PM »

I don't need some clergyman setting my moral compass for me.
Maybe not, but you've got somebody else filling that role. Everybody does.

Offline eric42434224

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2012, 03:38:13 PM »

I don't need some clergyman setting my moral compass for me.
Maybe not, but you've got somebody else filling that role. Everybody does.

Your moral compass should have been, for the most part, set in your upbringing, and only really requires some fine tuning here and there as an adult.  I can easily do that by myself.  I dont need anyone to do it for me.  Someone elses moral compass is not infallible, and can have biases and agendas...which will affect their advice to you.
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Offline Omega

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2012, 03:42:08 PM »

I don't need some clergyman setting my moral compass for me.
Maybe not, but you've got somebody else filling that role. Everybody does.

Your moral compass should have been, for the most part, set in your upbringing, and only really requires some fine tuning here and there as an adult.  I can easily do that by myself.  I dont need anyone to do it for me.  Someone elses moral compass is not infallible, and can have biases and agendas...which will affect their advice to you.

Fine tuning to the tune of what, exactly?
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2012, 03:44:00 PM »
Your moral compass, and your actions, as you age and experience new and different scenarios.
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Offline Omega

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2012, 03:45:17 PM »
Your moral compass, and your actions, as you age and experience new and different scenarios.

How do you know, exactly, when it is, if I may, "pointing north"?
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2012, 03:50:56 PM »
Your moral compass, and your actions, as you age and experience new and different scenarios.

How do you know, exactly, when it is, if I may, "pointing north"?

I can never know for sure.  But I will know more than some guy in a robe that I watch preach an hour a week and that knows me less than my mailman does.
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Offline Omega

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2012, 03:52:22 PM »
Your moral compass, and your actions, as you age and experience new and different scenarios.

How do you know, exactly, when it is, if I may, "pointing north"?

I can never know for sure.  But I will know more than some guy in a robe that I watch preach an hour a week and that knows me less than my mailman does.

So the moral compass is attuned to fit personal wants / knowledge?

How do you know it isn't pointing south?
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2012, 03:57:43 PM »
I dont, and really...neither does anyone else.
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Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2012, 04:00:47 PM »
I dont, and really...neither does anyone else.

This so much.  You just do what feels right.  Most people can figure out right from wrong anyways just from their own upbringings.  Parents/schooling give you a pretty good sense of right and wrong granted you haven't been failed in those areas.  And if those areas fail miserably, then maybe religion can fill the gap.

To think that people who are not religious can't have a good sense of morals is kind of weird.
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Offline Omega

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Re: I walked out of church today.
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2012, 04:05:17 PM »
I dont, and really...neither does anyone else.

This so much.  You just do what feels right.  Most people can figure out right from wrong anyways just from their own upbringings.  Parents/schooling give you a pretty good sense of right and wrong granted you haven't been failed in those areas.  And if those areas fail miserably, then maybe religion can fill the gap.

What if it feels right for someone to murder and rape?


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To think that people who are not religious can't have a good sense of morals is kind of weird.

Any theist who asserts this has misunderstood the moral argument. Of course atheists can behave as morally or even more so than theists. The problem is ultimately where or how morality is grounded, if at all.
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