Author Topic: Mormonism  (Read 10985 times)

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Online Adami

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #105 on: March 09, 2012, 07:41:49 PM »
You're a moot point.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #106 on: March 09, 2012, 07:47:49 PM »
I will not object to that.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #107 on: March 10, 2012, 01:14:11 PM »
, there's this beautiful thing called "agreeing to disagree"...and I honestly feel it's a lost art.    I kinda thought that was what politics was originally supposed to be based on... and that being educated included listening to the opinions of those you disagree with. 

If the poiliticians today, or people, did this we wouldn't be wasting so much time on debates like medical care, and the like.

Off-topic: See thats the problem I have with people saying Obama hasn't changed a thing. Well duh, he's not tinkerbell, it takes time to bring things back even generations. He tried to do things to help, but congress kept arguing and arguing when they could've agreed to disagree and moved on to another issue.
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #108 on: March 10, 2012, 01:45:24 PM »
, there's this beautiful thing called "agreeing to disagree"...and I honestly feel it's a lost art.    I kinda thought that was what politics was originally supposed to be based on... and that being educated included listening to the opinions of those you disagree with. 

If the poiliticians today, or people, did this we wouldn't be wasting so much time on debates like medical care, and the like.

Off-topic: See thats the problem I have with people saying Obama hasn't changed a thing. Well duh, he's not tinkerbell, it takes time to bring things back even generations. He tried to do things to help, but congress kept arguing and arguing when they could've agreed to disagree and moved on to another issue.


I completely disagree. There's civility in agreeing to disagree (and civility, we have lost), but I think the true lost art is listening to someone else's argument, and being persuaded by it, or at least compromising to it. That's especially the thing that Washington needs (Republicans more than Democrats), as "agreeing to disagree" in politics means nothing happens, and that's bad.

I mean, look at the constitution. The Convention nearly broke apart over the debates of slavery and small state representation. Agreeing to disagree would mean the debate wouldn't have continued, and the compromises wouldn't have been agreed upon.

Offline slycordinator

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #109 on: March 11, 2012, 07:13:07 PM »
Yes, but the Jews were still Jews, whether they followed Jesus or not.  AFAIK, there is no "opt-out" clause in being a Jew.

Following another religion and officially joining it is "opting out" of being a jew.
Not according to the Orthodox Jews.

They follow the rule that someone who's mother is Jewish to be a Jew and irrevocably so.

Online Adami

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #110 on: March 11, 2012, 08:43:34 PM »
Yes, but the Jews were still Jews, whether they followed Jesus or not.  AFAIK, there is no "opt-out" clause in being a Jew.

Following another religion and officially joining it is "opting out" of being a jew.
Not according to the Orthodox Jews.

They follow the rule that someone who's mother is Jewish to be a Jew and irrevocably so.

Not as far as I know. If a jewish guy actually baptises himself catholic or christian or whatever, they are no longer considered Jewish. Or else a whole crap load of you guys whos ancestors converted by force during the dark ages would all be jewish.
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Offline slycordinator

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #111 on: March 11, 2012, 10:10:53 PM »

Offline jammindude

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #112 on: March 11, 2012, 11:36:25 PM »
People are arguing with a Jew over who is a Jew...

This just keeps getting better and better....GOD I love this forum...


Where's the freakin popcorn???
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Online Adami

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #113 on: March 11, 2012, 11:51:32 PM »
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/whojew1.html

lol I know what it is to be a Jew. I'm a Jew.

And your article actually agreed with me. It said the supreme court ruled that even though that person was born a Jew, he converted and thus would not be recognized as a Jew.
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Offline slycordinator

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #114 on: March 12, 2012, 12:56:23 AM »
The article doesn't agree with you quite as much as you think. It quite clearly states that, depending on what Jewish movement we're talking about, there is no requirement of practicing any part of the religion.

In any case...
a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox.
So even if you don't believe in anything about Judaism at all, at least according to the guy who wrote that article  :lol, you could be considered Jewish.

But I imagine most people would take your view on it.

Online Adami

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #115 on: March 12, 2012, 12:58:59 AM »
Huh? That's not even what I'm arguing. I know exactly what constitutes a Jew. I was arguing that if a jew actively converts to a different religion, they are no longer jewish. That was my entire point. I am an agnostic jew. I feel like you're reading something else in my posts. I know you don't have to practice to be a jew. That wasn't a part of what we were discussing.
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Offline slycordinator

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #116 on: March 12, 2012, 01:23:38 AM »
Huh? That's not even what I'm arguing. I know exactly what constitutes a Jew. I was arguing that if a jew actively converts to a different religion, they are no longer jewish. That was my entire point. I am an agnostic jew. I feel like you're reading something else in my posts. I know you don't have to practice to be a jew. That wasn't a part of what we were discussing.
And I feel like you're leaving out parts of mine when you respond.

Like in that comment, I pointed out that even *atheists* can be considered Jewish. Now, although atheism isn't a religion per se, I don't see any reason to consider one "complete denunciation of Judaism" to be any more or less important than another.

But I will say that when I first looked into this, most of the stuff I saw that said that according to Jewish law (halach if memory is serving me right) that Jewishness couldn't be revoked came from a handful of wikipedia articles.

Online Adami

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #117 on: March 12, 2012, 01:34:52 AM »
Atheists can be considered Jewish, indeed. But being atheist isn't the same as becoming christian or something.


Being atheist doesn't stop you from being Jewish. Being Christian, or Catholic, or Muslim or a JW or whatever, does stop you from being Jewish.


I know you might not agree, but that's how the religion works.
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Offline slycordinator

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #118 on: March 12, 2012, 01:42:42 AM »
I thought my reference to the fact that these ideas originally were planted into me by wikipedia articles should've indicated that I was implying they could be wrong. Though obviously I was being too obtuse about that.  :lol

edit: Though I did go out on a date with a Jewish classmate once who took the view that because my mom's biological parents were Jewish (but she was adopted into a Christian family) that I was Jewish (despite knowing me to be Lutheran).

Offline Ħ

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #119 on: March 12, 2012, 02:09:34 AM »
Atheists can be considered Jewish, indeed. But being atheist isn't the same as becoming christian or something.


Being atheist doesn't stop you from being Jewish. Being Christian, or Catholic, or Muslim or a JW or whatever, does stop you from being Jewish.


I know you might not agree, but that's how the religion works.
Forgive me for my ignorance - so if you are born Jewish, yet later reject it in favor of atheism or agnosticism, then do you still inherit the eternal perks that a religious Jew inherits, assuming that Judaism is true?
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #120 on: March 12, 2012, 03:46:10 AM »
I'm not sure that there are any "eternal perks."
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Online Adami

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #121 on: March 12, 2012, 09:12:11 AM »
In Judaism, you don't have to be jewish to get any "eternal perks", you just have to be a good person, of any religion.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #122 on: March 12, 2012, 08:54:47 PM »
Is there a better way of saying "eternal perks" than just saying it? You are both implying that there is.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline yeshaberto

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Re: Mormonism
« Reply #123 on: March 12, 2012, 10:15:01 PM »
Is there a better way of saying "eternal perks" than just saying it? You are both implying that there is.

I keep reading eternal peeks...then my mind quickly begins to ask, peeks into what?!...then I re-read it again and realize it says perks.  it all happens in about 1/2 second but has happened multiple times