Mormonism

[Scheavo]

jsem, I saw you say you were a LDS member in the other thread, so I had a question: Why is Mormonism Christian? Knowing what I know about Mormonism and Christianity, I just don't get how Mormonsim should be thought of as any more Christian than Islam. It doesn't really make any difference to me, it's just an academic curiosity for me.

[El JoNNo]

I'm not Jsem but when you follow Christ you are a Christian. Muslims do not therefore are not Christians. Mormons, while may not adhere to your form of Christianity still follow Christ. That's all you need to call yourself Christian.

[Ħ]

I think there's a difference between defining a category ("Christian") and defining the parameters by which a person is saved/goes to heaven/etc.  When it comes to terminology, you can argue pretty much anything, because words are a man-made construct.  As a human, you can call something whatever you want to call it.

But what you can't say is that Mormons and Protestants are compatible because they are both "Christian".  They are very different and probably believe that the other group is not a part of the "saved" community.  To lump them together is a mistake.

[Phantasmatron]

I never understood the popular opinion that Mormonism is not a form of Christianity.  Mormons believe in Jesus Christ and that he died to save us.  It seems to me that this is the only requirement to be considered Christian. 

I think a lot of religious groups simply dislike LDS beliefs or find them uncomfortable, and prefer to separate themselves from Mormonism by claiming that Mormons are not Christian.  I suppose if they define Christianity differently, then that makes complete sense.  They can say that since some of the doctrines surrounding Christ's identity or role differ, Mormons are not Christian.  But I think it just comes down to semantics. 

Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is the savior of mankind.  To me, that makes them Christian.

[bosk1]

It seems to me that this is the only requirement to be considered Christian. 

Not really, no.  Not any more than merely believing that meat tastes good in and of itself makes one a carnivore.

[Phantasmatron]

It seems to me that this is the only requirement to be considered Christian. 

Not really, no.  Not any more than merely believing that meat tastes good in and of itself makes one a carnivore.

As clever as that analogy may be, it's kind of useless without a little more explanation.

[bosk1]

I'm just saying there's more to it is all.

[Jamesman42]

This is not meant as an offense to anyone of Mormonism, but I always thought of Mormonism as a later extension of Christianity that made its own name and religion for itself. So much so (with such different beliefs) that I would not consider it a part of Christianity.

[Phantasmatron]

I'm just saying there's more to it is all.

Right.  I know that's what you're saying.  But what is the more?

[Scheavo]

I'm just saying there's more to it is all.

Right.  I know that's what you're saying.  But what is the more?

Seems to me the more should be following Jesus, not just saying you accept him as "your Lord and Savior."

[Phantasmatron]

I'm just saying there's more to it is all.

Right.  I know that's what you're saying.  But what is the more?

Seems to me the more should be following Jesus, not just saying you accept him as "your Lord and Savior."

Okay, that makes sense.  But that still makes Mormonism a form of Christianity.

[William Wallace]

Their theology is radically different. By itself, that's not a flaw, but their beliefs about who God is, the inerrancy of scripture and salvation (to name a few examples) differ greatly from Christian teachings.

[El JoNNo]

Their theology is radically different. By itself, that's not a flaw, but their beliefs about who God is, the inerrancy of scripture and salvation (to name a few examples) differ greatly from Christian teachings.

Such as? If you have an opinion on it that is.

[Super Dude]

Then one might call it another demonination, as it properly is, not unlike Celtic Christianity was.

[William Wallace]

Their theology is radically different. By itself, that's not a flaw, but their beliefs about who God is, the inerrancy of scripture and salvation (to name a few examples) differ greatly from Christian teachings.

Such as? If you have an opinion on it that is.

The Book of Mormon as a second testament of Jesus, for example, would have been punted by the early church. They scrapped orthodox books if they found out that the books (say, 3 Corinthians) were forged. So the LDS view of scripture, then, doesn't square with the Christian belief that their are authoritative books that speak about Jesus and his ministry.

[Scheavo]

Then one might call it another demonination, as it properly is, not unlike Celtic Christianity was.

And how much are Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Mormonism all denomination of the same religion?

[El JoNNo]

Their theology is radically different. By itself, that's not a flaw, but their beliefs about who God is, the inerrancy of scripture and salvation (to name a few examples) differ greatly from Christian teachings.

Such as? If you have an opinion on it that is.

The Book of Mormon as a second testament of Jesus, for example, would have been punted by the early church. They scrapped orthodox books if they found out that the books (say, 3 Corinthians) were forged. So the LDS view of scripture, then, doesn't square with the Christian belief that their are authoritative books that speak about Jesus and his ministry.

Cool, thanks.

[hefdaddy42]

Then one might call it another demonination, as it properly is, not unlike Celtic Christianity was.

And how much are Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Mormonism all denomination of the same religion?

They aren't.   If you want to go that route, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are different religions, and Mormonism is a denomination of Christianity.  I would then (using that terminology) think of Catholicism, Lutheranism, and Presbyterianism as further denominations of Christianity.  Also I would see Reform and Orthodox as denominations of Judaism, and Sunni and Shi'a as denominations of Islam (although I doubt they use that particular terminology themselves).

[El JoNNo]

Then one might call it another demonination, as it properly is, not unlike Celtic Christianity was.

And how much are Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Mormonism all denomination of the same religion?

They aren't.   If you want to go that route, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are different religions, and Mormonism is a denomination of Christianity.  I would then (using that terminology) think of Catholicism, Lutheranism, and Presbyterianism as further denominations of Christianity.  Also I would see Reform and Orthodox as denominations of Judaism, and Sunni and Shi'a as denominations of Islam (although I doubt they use that particular terminology themselves).

I think he's refering to the fact that they are all based off the same book/God. Jews have the Torah = Old Testament. Christians have the OT with the addition of the NT or Bible. Mormons have the Bible with the addition of the Book of Mormon and whatever other books. Islam has the Qu'ran which is the rewritten version of the Bible with additions.

The all are Abrahamic religions; just different takes. I don't think it is a completely in accurate statement to say that they are denominations of Judaism.

[hefdaddy42]

Yes it is.  Although Islam does refer to Jews, Christians, and Muslims as all 3 being "people of the book."

BTW, the Koran is not "a rewritten version of the Bible with additions."

[El JoNNo]

Yes it is.  Although Islam does refer to Jews, Christians, and Muslims as all 3 being "people of the book."

BTW, the Koran is not "a rewritten version of the Bible with additions."

Sorry, it is a book that lifts a bunch of stories from the Bible and tweaks them.

[hefdaddy42]

It does more than tweak them.

But I think we each understand.

[Super Dude]

Mormonism is an alternative interpretation of Christianity in the way, as I said, the Celtic Church was until it was utterly destroyed by persecution by ancient European rulers and the Catholic Church (I think they too were non-Trinitarian or something), in the same way Greek Orthodox is Christian even though it developed entirely apart from Western Christianity, in the same way that Coptic and Nestorians are separately but equally so despite irreconcilable disagreements.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't think that Mormonism is the same as those things (no offense to the Mormons here).

[jsem]

I mean, this all can be traced back to a more general question of what is Christianity. What criteria need to be met for one belief system to be considered Christianity?

I do believe we are Christians. We believe in God the Father, the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ as the Son of God, even though our view of the trinity is radically different to the largest Christian groups (Christ being the God of the Old Testament and the Creator for example). We believe in the resurrection of Christ, and that his atoning sacrifice was absolutely necessary and accepting it is the only way to salvation.

Islam considers Isa (Jesus) a mere prophet, while Christians consider him God. I don't think it's be fair to say that LDS and Islam are just as Christian.

[Scheavo]

Yes it is.  Although Islam does refer to Jews, Christians, and Muslims as all 3 being "people of the book."

Islam considers Isa (Jesus) a mere prophet, while Christians consider him God. I don't think it's be fair to say that LDS and Islam are just as Christian.

Without Judaism, there would be no Christianity, Islam or Mormonism. They're all offshoots from the same theological tradition, though they take very different approaches and interpret the "true way," or whatnot, completely differently. Mormonism is more similar to Christianity than Islam, and of course Judaism, but it's basic tenants are basically that everything known or thought of about the teaching of Christ is wrong. It's not that much farther, from this, to say that Christ was simply a prophet and not the son of god, as Muslims do.

I mean, what differentiates a Christian from a Jew? Jesus, and taking him as the son of god, and following the New Testament. Both have the same "God." What differentiates a Mormon from a Christian? Joseph Smith, thinking he is a prophet, and following his Book of Mormon. Both have the same "God" (this time Jesus).

[Phantasmatron]

So, to summarize the entire thread:  semantics.  It seems like everyone as a different definition of Christianity, some of which include Mormonism and some of which do not. 

But what exactly is the point of this?  Let's say Mormons aren't Christians.  What does that mean?  It doesn't change anything.  It seems to be about as useful as debating whether Symphony X plays progressive metal or symphonic metal.

[William Wallace]

So, to summarize the entire thread:  semantics.  It seems like everyone as a different definition of Christianity, some of which include Mormonism and some of which do not. 

But what exactly is the point of this?  Let's say Mormons aren't Christians.  What does that mean?  It doesn't change anything.  It seems to be about as useful as debating whether Symphony X plays progressive metal or symphonic metal.

Not at all. There are substantial theological differences.

[kirksnosehair]

Fascinating discussion....and I'm agnostic 

[hefdaddy42]

So, to summarize the entire thread:  semantics.  It seems like everyone as a different definition of Christianity, some of which include Mormonism and some of which do not. 

But what exactly is the point of this?  Let's say Mormons aren't Christians.  What does that mean?  It doesn't change anything.  It seems to be about as useful as debating whether Symphony X plays progressive metal or symphonic metal.

Not at all. There substantial theological differences.

Understatement of the century.

[William Wallace]

So, to summarize the entire thread:  semantics.  It seems like everyone as a different definition of Christianity, some of which include Mormonism and some of which do not. 

But what exactly is the point of this?  Let's say Mormons aren't Christians.  What does that mean?  It doesn't change anything.  It seems to be about as useful as debating whether Symphony X plays progressive metal or symphonic metal.

Not at all. There are substantial theological differences.

Understatement of the century.

Yeah, I guess lost tribes of Israel making their way to America is more than semantics.

[Phantasmatron]

Yeah, I guess lost tribes of Israel making their way to America is more than semantics.

But Israelites winding up in America has nothing to do with Mormon beliefs concerning Jesus Christ. 

And I still don't see what classifying Mormonism as Christian or non-Christian changes.

[William Wallace]

Yeah, I guess lost tribes of Israel making their way to America is more than semantics.

But Israelites winding up in America has nothing to do with Mormon beliefs concerning Jesus Christ. 

And I still don't see what classifying Mormonism as Christian or non-Christian changes.

It's like saying that calling apples and oranges the same thing doesn't change anything. I suppose it's true, but they are still different fruits.

[hefdaddy42]

True.

[lonestar]

Fascinating discussion....and I'm agnostic 

Ditto, so happy my religion allows for a God of my own understanding.  I need a flowchart to follow this.