Van Halen Thread v. Where Have All The Good Times Gone

[SystematicThought]

Where's the bass on OU812?

Favorite track from OU812 is probably Mine All Mine. Not really a bad track on OU812, while 5150 has Inside on it....I can't compare them really, I love them both.

I'm curious for those who witnessed it, what was it like to hear about DLR leaving Van Halen, bringing Sammy onboard, you hear Why Can't This Be Love on the radio in February 1986, or pop in 5150 and hear "Hello Baaaaaby" for the first time. What was that like? Were you onboard with it, or did it take awhile to warm up to it?

[KevShmev]

The lack of bass on OU812 doesn't bother me.  It is a product of its time (later 80's).

I think the best songs on 5150 (Dreams and the title track) are better than anything from OU812, but Good Enough is kind of weak and the studio version of Best of Both Worlds is what a limp dick set to music would sound like.  Inside isn't great, but I enjoy it for the goof-off song it is.

[jammindude]

It was surprising to me to find out MUCH later in life that most people across the nation hadn't heard of Sammy Hagar.   He had been a radio darling in Seattle since his days in Montrose in the late 70s, and several of his solo hits had long been rock radio staples on our local station.  (Heck, every song on side one of Standing Hampton was played AD NAUSEUM when it was released)

I didn't pay much attention to 5150 when it came out....but I was in the midst of my full on thrash phase, so Get Up was the only song that interested me, and was honestly the only reason I ever even gave the album a second look.    I still love that song, and can't figure out why everyone hates on it.   

[Kwyjibo]

OU812 is better than For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.

This is just plain wrong, and deep down in your heart you know it. 

[KevShmev]

OU812 is better than For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.

This is just plain wrong, and deep down in your heart you know it. 

I actually do not.

For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge is probably more top-heavy - Pleasure Dome, Right Now and Poundcake are all killer tracks and some of their best songs ever - but it also has some of the weakest songs of the Van Hagar era (In 'N' Out and Man on a Mission), not to mention songs like Runaround and Top of the World are just pretty good.  OU812 is very consistent and an easy start to finish listen.

It was surprising to me to find out MUCH later in life that most people across the nation hadn't heard of Sammy Hagar.   He had been a radio darling in Seattle since his days in Montrose in the late 70s, and several of his solo hits had long been rock radio staples on our local station.  (Heck, every song on side one of Standing Hampton was played AD NAUSEUM when it was released)

I didn't pay much attention to 5150 when it came out....but I was in the midst of my full on thrash phase, so Get Up was the only song that interested me, and was honestly the only reason I ever even gave the album a second look.    I still love that song, and can't figure out why everyone hates on it.

I actually meant to say in my post above that Good Enough (not Get Up) was kinda weak.  I like Get Up quite a bit, actually. 

[Kwyjibo]

I actually really like In 'n' Out, such great guitar work. 

For me, Man On A Mission is the only mediocre track on an otherwise stellar album. OU812 isn't bad either but has a lot of just good solid songs, it lacks the highs of FUCK.

[Stadler]

I'm curious for those who witnessed it, what was it like to hear about DLR leaving Van Halen, bringing Sammy onboard, you hear Why Can't This Be Love on the radio in February 1986, or pop in 5150 and hear "Hello Baaaaaby" for the first time. What was that like? Were you onboard with it, or did it take awhile to warm up to it?

The best word I can give you is "average".     I had heard Sammy - loved Standing Hampton, still one of my favorite albums - and for me, being a DLR fan, he wasn't at that level as a FRONTMAN.    For me, it was a curiosity at best.   When I heard 5150 I thought "eh", and when I heard Eat 'Em And Smile I thought well, "eh plus one or two".   It struck me almost immediately that this was the end of what I REALLY LOVED, and a path forward with what I kind of liked.   I felt the same way when Fish left Marillion (almost exactly). 

[pg1067]

I'm curious for those who witnessed it, what was it like to hear about DLR leaving Van Halen, bringing Sammy onboard, you hear Why Can't This Be Love on the radio in February 1986, or pop in 5150 and hear "Hello Baaaaaby" for the first time. What was that like? Were you onboard with it, or did it take awhile to warm up to it?

From a personal perspective, I thought 1984 sucked, so it didn't bother me that DLR left.

More generally, the different voice and the prominence of keyboards on 5150 really made VH feel like a completely different band.  In southern California, the new band was pretty widely accepted, but it really was viewed as a different band, which is probably what let to the whole "Van Hagar" thing.  If the sound had remained consistent, I don't think that would have happened.

It was surprising to me to find out MUCH later in life that most people across the nation hadn't heard of Sammy Hagar.   He had been a radio darling in Seattle since his days in Montrose in the late 70s, and several of his solo hits had long been rock radio staples on our local station.  (Heck, every song on side one of Standing Hampton was played AD NAUSEUM when it was released)

I knew Sammy Hagar as a solo artist as a result of MTV playing videos like Three Lock Box (rarely) and I Can't Drive 55 (heavily).  There's Only One Way to Rock also got a good amount of radio play (can't remember if there was a video).  I knew he had been in a band in the 70s, but as I sit here today, I couldn't name a single Montrose song and, if I've ever heard one, I can't recall it.  Before 55 broke big, Hagar was very much a minor artist around these parts.

After I wrote the above, I looked at Wikipedia and was reminded that I've heard Bad Motor Scooter and Rocky Candy, both of which I can't stand.  I'm pretty sure I've heard Maiden's version of I Got the Fire but not sure if I've ever heard Montrose's original.

[KevShmev]

I never cared for Rock Candy, but I love both Bad Motor Scooter and Space Station # 5.

I actually really like In 'n' Out, such great guitar work. 

For me, Man On A Mission is the only mediocre track on an otherwise stellar album. OU812 isn't bad either but has a lot of just good solid songs, it lacks the highs of FUCK.

I think, for me , the flow of OU812 works in its favor, while Carnal Knowledge is a collection of songs that could have been rearranged and it wouldn't make much of a difference.  And while the sound of Carnal Knowledge is really good, the lack of the brown sound and warmth overall makes for a less satisfying listen from start to finish than many other VH albums.

[TAC]

OU812 is the one Hagar era album that actually reminds me of the Roth era. I find it incredible basic and honest. It has a loose fucking around feel to it.

[Cool Chris]

I like on XM radio, they combine Intruder/Pretty Woman into one song.

I only knew VH from the radio myself, and I always heard these songs together. I knew it was a cover and Roy Orbison's version and his didn't have the extended intro. I thought VH just tacked on their own instrumental intro. It wasn't till years later I found out it was its own song. They are so linked in my head I can't imagine not hearing them together.

[Stadler]

STUNNING, literally STUNNING that the two references to "Rock Candy" are that it sucks.   

I'm very indifferent to early Sammy solo stuff (he became a legit artist, for me, on Standing Hampton) but my neighbor had a woody for Ronnie Montrose, so I heard those first two albums a lot, and wondered why Sam couldn't put something out with the timelessness of "Rock Candy".    That's a killer riff, a killer drum pattern, and while the lyrics aren't anything special, Sammy delivers them with aplomb.

I have a version of Sam, Michael Anthony and Tommy Lee playing that live in the studio, and it's just...   I get it, it's not "Smoke On The Water" but I'm surprised we went for "sucks".

[KevShmev]

FYI, I didn't say it sucks; I said I never cared for it.

[cramx3]

Make that three that never cared for it 

I really really like Sammy but I found his solo or older material that I've heard to be more misses than hits although some of the hits are really good.  I have a couple of his greatest hits albums from a kid (they have almost completly different set of songs on them) and I find it to only be like 1/2 good so it never made me want to buy any of his albums.  Even his work after Van Halen, it's very hit or miss.

[Adami]

STUNNING, literally STUNNING that the two references to "Rock Candy" are that it sucks.   

I'm very indifferent to early Sammy solo stuff (he became a legit artist, for me, on Standing Hampton) but my neighbor had a woody for Ronnie Montrose, so I heard those first two albums a lot, and wondered why Sam couldn't put something out with the timelessness of "Rock Candy".    That's a killer riff, a killer drum pattern, and while the lyrics aren't anything special, Sammy delivers them with aplomb.

I have a version of Sam, Michael Anthony and Tommy Lee playing that live in the studio, and it's just...   I get it, it's not "Smoke On The Water" but I'm surprised we went for "sucks".

Not a huge VH fan or of any of their side/solo projects. They've always just been decent fun rock but nothing more. But, I was curious and checked out Rock Candy. Definitely recognized it after a bit.

Not a bad song. A weird mix of Led Zeppelin and Def Leopard. I thought it was dumb but fun, much like most of VH or stuff. Dunno why people would think it sucks.

[KevShmev]

What's wrong with fun??

[Adami]

What's wrong with fun??

Nothing, clearly I enjoy yo mama.

But I like VH's hits. They, like a few other 80's bands I listen to are good for that silly good time, but since they never went beyond that (for me) I was never tempted to actually check them out in depth beyond passively. My point was, Rock Candy was no worse than any of the typical VH songs I heard. It was dumb, fun, had a cool riff, decent vocals, cool drum groove. I was just confused by VH fans would think it sucks.

[cramx3]

I find the song incredibly boring personally.  Other than the lyrics, I don't find the song fun at all for me. 

[pg1067]

STUNNING, literally STUNNING that the two references to "Rock Candy" are that it sucks.   

I'm very indifferent to early Sammy solo stuff (he became a legit artist, for me, on Standing Hampton) but my neighbor had a woody for Ronnie Montrose, so I heard those first two albums a lot, and wondered why Sam couldn't put something out with the timelessness of "Rock Candy".    That's a killer riff, a killer drum pattern, and while the lyrics aren't anything special, Sammy delivers them with aplomb.

I have a version of Sam, Michael Anthony and Tommy Lee playing that live in the studio, and it's just...   I get it, it's not "Smoke On The Water" but I'm surprised we went for "sucks".

I'll preface my comments by saying that, for me, really good lyrics will not save a song that is musically bad, but really bad lyrics can kill a song that is good musically.

It's hard to speculate what I might think in an alternative universe, but RC is a song that is destroyed by dumb lyrics.  "You're hard, sweet and sticky" is dumb enough on its own, but it's even dumber when you consider that it's a song ostensibly sung by a dude about a girl (or maybe it's not....).  And the music isn't much to write home about.  The tempo is slower than I generally like, and the guitar riff doesn't have the same sort of appeal as a song like Back in Black.  The music isn't bad, but it's not great, and the lyrics kill any hope for the song.

[cramx3]

See, I find that line to be fun personally.  But the slow pace of the song is what makes it so boring that the drums and guitar can't save it for me.

[jammindude]

Rock Candy’s guitar riff is so standard on the west coast that it has become more common in the “bar band repertoire” than even Smoke on the Water.

That is truly one of the greatest “riffs” I’ve ever heard in the history of classic rock.

[Stadler]

Not criticizing anyone at all (sorry Kev), I just thought it was more well-liked, is all.

As for me, I've written about this before:  not all music, but some of it I like just BECAUSE it's mindless fun.  There's nothing deep about the lyrics (ANY of Sammy's lyrics, to be honest, even the ones where he tries for something more substantive) but it's just... "fun" to me.  I get it, taste, and I don't begrudge anyone their takes; most of them aren't wrong, they just don't matter to me.

One point though: I think Cram is spot on:  it IS a "slow" sort of plodding song, but somehow Sammy transcends that and makes it groove.  You hear some of the covers - UFO's is a good example - they don't overcome that and it's almost tedious.  Actually two points:   the lyrics ARE stupid, but again, Sammy seems to transcend.  I don't know what it is about them, but some singers can just elevate shitty words (Roth is another one) whereas others' can't (Joe Lynn Turner, looking at you!).   Listening to the Bullet Boys or (sorry Phil) UFO do it, it just sounds... creepy.       

[KevShmev]

All good, and I do not think it is a bad song by any means; it just never really grabbed me. I listened to it again yesterday to see if maybe it would and it still really didn't.  I get the appeal, but sometimes a song just doesn't grab ya.

[TAC]

Rock Candy is not a good song.

Phil Mogg does as well as he can with the lyrics. His style takes the edge of the ridiculousness of the lyrics.

[SystematicThought]

https://variety.com/2019/music/news/van-halen-michael-anthony-no-reunion-1203249956/

Got some details on the supposed Van Halen Summer Tour with Michael Anthony which sputtered out. Sounds typical of Van Halen.

Sammy is also making the rounds saying he never wants to do a reunion and is afraid to reach out to the brothers out of fear that they may think he's engineering a reunion. Sammy always says he never wants to do a reunion, but give it a few months and he'll want to be doing one  as a way to "bury the hatchet". If the money were right, Sammy would do it. I've always liked his idea of splitting the eras up in one show--Dave does his stuff then Sammy comes out and does his. That would never work though.

I also heard a rumor that Eddie Trunk's brought up that Eddie is sick again, hence the sputtering of the tour and silence from Van Halen. Dave has said that he and the brothers are meeting soon.

At this point, I don't care anymore, Dave is awful nowadays while the band was on fire last tour I saw.

[cramx3]

Where there is smoke there is fire, there is no doubt there were some talks to do a stadium tour this summer but it obviously fell apart, the question is why.  I heard Eddie Trunk talk about the possibility of Eddie being sick.  Could be the case. That would have been awesome, I'd love to see them do one more tour at least and even better if it was a double set with each singer but that's wishful thinking.

[KevShmev]

Unless the band is going to get together and make a new record, I don't see the point in doing any kind of reunion tour other than it being a total cash grab.  The brothers hate both Roth and (for some inexplicable reason) Anthony, not to mention that Roth can't sing worth a darn anymore live.  The band had a great run, but it is time to put them to rest.

[SystematicThought]

I never understood the whole last few tours being a way to make some more money to support Wolf. I remember Eddie talking about that quite a bit, that he was doing the tour for Wolf.

Don't the brothers hate Anthony because he went out and played some shows with Sammy after they split back in the 90s? Among probably other reasons

[King Postwhore]

Yes but MA asked if he could then got the blessing from Eddie.   

[Anguyen92]

I just don't get it when it comes to Van Halen.  I understand that Wolfgang left Mark Tremonti's solo band to do the Van Halen tour in 2015 and then he quietly officially left Tremonti.  Then he's been on and off when it comes to do his solo album with very little updates in between.  Now recently I heard he's doing studio work on drums for Sevendust's Clint Lowery's solo album.  Then, not much concrete news on what Van Halen is up to nowadays. 

So basically, Van Halen have done four years of absolutely nothing.  Is that an accurate statement to make?

[cramx3]

I don't know anything about what Wolfie is up to. 

I do get the feeling that the VH brothers, specifically Eddie, have these issues that just stem from who knows what.  Howard Stern had The Circle (entire band) on for an interview and performance, hearing what Sammy and Michael had to say about Eddie just makes me feel like he's somewhere else in his mind.  I don't get it, but it's above my head for sure and it seems above Sammy's head too.  I think Sammy would definitely play with VH again if they came to their senses, obviously MA would he said so openly and even agreed with the initial idea (with Sammy's blessing too).  It's just an odd situation with super egos.

[Stadler]

Don't disagree with the live comments, but I'd take another record from the Roth unit; that last one killed.  I love it.

[bl5150]

DLR said he was catching up in person with the VH brothers this week , so make of that what you will.   I find it hard to see anything happening with Sammy - I think the time has passed in more ways than one.

[Kwyjibo]

Don't disagree with the live comments, but I'd take another record from the Roth unit; that last one killed.  I love it.

Quoted (and bolded) for truth

[jammindude]

Don't disagree with the live comments, but I'd take another record from the Roth unit; that last one killed.  I love it.

Quoted (and bolded) for truth

Seriously.  It was easily their best album in at least 20 years.