Van Halen Thread v. Where Have All The Good Times Gone

[KevShmev]

It is very possible that they were simply freaked out by that freakish smile that Roth sports non-stop nowadays.

[jammindude]

I'll tell you one thing.   When EVH sees that, and hears DLR say, "I AM Van Halen"...he's the type of guy who's going to take issue with that.   

I wonder if DLR will be erased from all the VH album covers for a month. 

[cramx3]

  those guys were clueless, they just kept thinking they bothered some old dude with loud music

[Mladen]

Sorry to interrupt the discussion, but I've been thinking about getting into Van Halen, so I would appreciate some comments regarding favorite albums, eras, maybe even album rankings and stuff. Anyone willing to help out?

[KevShmev]

Sorry to interrupt the discussion, but I've been thinking about getting into Van Halen, so I would appreciate some comments regarding favorite albums, eras, maybe even album rankings and stuff. Anyone willing to help out?

The Roth era: start with the debut, Fair Warning and 1984.
The Sammy era: start with 5150, OU812 and For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.

After getting those, you will eventually want everything else, and for good reason, as there is plenty to like on every VH album (although Diver Down and III, the one with Cherone, are clearly the weakest links).

As for which era is better, Sammy or Dave, I think they are pretty equal, albeit different.

[Max Kuehnau]

Sorry to interrupt the discussion, but I've been thinking about getting into Van Halen, so I would appreciate some comments regarding favorite albums, eras, maybe even album rankings and stuff. Anyone willing to help out?

Yes. VH have made 12 studio albums and 2 live albums (more on these later) so far and can be subdivided into three distinct eras: (Note that I'm focusing on album releases as reference for timelines) DLR (1978-1984 and 2012-present, 7 studio albums, 1 live album), Sammy Hagar (1986-1995, 4 studio albums, one live album) and Gary Cherone (1998, 1 studio album only, called Van Halen III) I actually like every studio album they've made (and I think the defining factors to have a good sounding VH studio album are Eddie and Alex, not so much the singers by themselves) and I think they are great players with great a great sound, still to this day. Some good ones to check out (seeing as you want to get into them) are: VH1, Fair Warning, 1984, 5150, For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge (aka FUCK) and Balance. The other ones may be best discovered after you've gone through these first 6 as it were. With DLR being DLR, his vocal style is full of (somewhat comedic) antics, so don't be put off by these OK? I personally prefer Right Here Right Now as a live album because the DLR one at Tokyo Dome doesn't feature too many good notes by him (sad that really, especially seeing as everyone else is on their "A game" as it were) Fair Warning is the darkest of the bunch IMHO. Sammy's albums are a lot more pop-esque, really quite different from both DLR and Gary Cherone. Gary is somewhat similar to DLR vocally in some way. What is a unifying factor (possibly apart from some on VH3) is that the songs are just great, no matter who is singing and the playing is as well IMHO. Any questions so far?

[Cool Chris]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKRcbKVfmp8
...it was pretty obvious that they had no clue who he was and a part of me doesn't think that was a bachelor party....

A bunch of dudes hanging out in shorts in a hotel room does sound like the worst bachelor party ever. And it does not appear they are gearing up to go out anywhere. And was that guy who came out at the end asleep?

[SystematicThought]

I kinda like jammindude's theory that the guy either wasn't paying attention or was in the bathroom or something and missed everything until someone told him what happened. I got the vibe that he still had no clue who he was and thought he was getting yelled at for the loud music and came and apologized.

And yeah, Kev, that smile he sports everywhere nowadays is creepy. The Joe Rogan podcast he was on a few months back, it was basically 2 and a half hours of that grin.

Sorry to interrupt the discussion, but I've been thinking about getting into Van Halen, so I would appreciate some comments regarding favorite albums, eras, maybe even album rankings and stuff. Anyone willing to help out?

Favorite Roth Album-1984 followed by Women and Children First, VHII, debut, Fair Warning, Diver Down. None of these are bad albums, they're either Fantastic or great to me.

Hagar-5150, For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge, Balance, OU812. Again, Fantastic and great albums.

Van Halen is my favorite band, I grew up listening to 1984 on my boombox in my room. I was 6 I think when I got it on CD (this is in 1999, by the way) and I didn't know what any of the lyrics meant, I was just drawn to the music and sound. To me, there's not a bad VH song, only great or good. I'm more of a Sammy era guy, I love 5150 and the accompanying DVD/VHS, Live Without a Net and the rocking, mature, dark sound of For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.

Live: Right Here, Right Now is okay. The DVD kinda ruined it for me since they took footage from both nights, so mainly Sammy, but sometimes Mike, will magically change clothes mid-verse, etc. And most of it was re-recorded in the studio (didn't this essentially start that era's downfall?)

[TAC]

Where to start?......The Debut.

[Stadler]

I know my position - about listening to music in the context within which it was made - isn't really popular around here, but Van Halen is one of those bands you have to listen to chronologically, and with the mindset that in 1978 there was NOTHING that sounded like that debut record.  NOTHING.  "Eruption" was THAT disruptive.   

[Mladen]

Thank you all for your detailed replies. Usually, I discover bands by going chronologically. However, I'm apprehensive about starting with the debut - isn't it kind of odd to hear the best one right away and then move your way through the rest, which might be good but not as great as the first thing you heard? This might be one time I'll start with a different album. 

[KevShmev]

Aside from the hits that were played on the radio, I didn't hear the debut until the early 90's after I knew all of their 80's hits, so I don't think starting with the debut is a must.

[pg1067]

I'm gonna give a pitch for Diver Down being unfairly or excessively maligned.  Yes, it had a bunch of covers, but some of those covers were really well done, and the originals were excellent.

Where Have All the Good Times Gone -- Kinks cover.  I don't know the original.  The VH version is excellent.

Hang 'Em High -- Original.  Completely kick ass song.  As far as I'm concerned, it holds its own against any other DLR-era song other than Unchained.

Cathedral -- Original.  This is an Eddie solo pieced in which he makes his guitar sound a bit like a church organ.  It's fine for what it is.

Secrets -- Original.  Good but not great.

Intruder -- Original.  Instrumental that functions as a lead into to the next song.  In that context, it is excellent.

(Oh) Pretty Woman -- Roy Orbison cover.  Umpteen times better than the original.  Great cover.

Dancing in the Street -- Martha and the Vandellas cover.  Again, much better than the original (as well as the Bowie/Jagger version).

Little Guitars -- Original.  This is actually split into two tracks on the album:  Little Guitars (Intro), which is a 42 second classical guitar piece by Eddie, and the song proper.  Good song.

Big Bad Bill (Is Sweet William Now) -- Cover, but I'm not sure who the original artist was.  This is where the album kind of came off the rails.  It's sort of a bluegrass/dixieland/barbershop quartet song.  This quote from Eddie sums it up:  "It was Dave's idea to do 'Big Bad Bill.'  He bought himself one of those Sanyo Walkman-type things with the FM-AM radio, and you can record off the radio if you like something you hear.  He was up in his bedroom at his father's house and he found that if he stood in a certain spot and pointed his antenna a certain way, he picked up this weird radio station in Louisville, Kentucky.  He recorded 'Big Bad Bill' and played it to us, and we started laughing ourselves silly and going, 'That is bad!  Let's do it!'  Dave suggested, 'Hey, we can get your old man to play the clarinet.'  We said, 'sure.'"

The Full Bug -- Original.  A good chunk of this song is pretty cool, but it opens with this old time ZZ Top thing (I think it's similar to La Grange, but I'm not sure about that), which returns after the guitar solo.  The rest of the song is good.

Happy Trails -- Roy Rogers/Dale Evans cover.  The band did this in the traditional style, and it's fine as far as it goes, but it brings the album to a dud of a conclusion.

In addition to what's noted above, the other well-deserved criticism is that the album is only 31:04.  If it had been 10 minutes longer, then wasting time with stuff like Big Bad Bill and Happy Trails might have met with a bit less criticism.

[TAC]

I love The Full Bug, which is really the only song that fits with my DLR Era Compilation. I like Little Guitars too.

But Diver Down is a glorified EP, and not a very strong one.

[KevShmev]

Little Guitar is probably the song I revisit the most from Diver Down, but I agree that it sounds like a glorified EP.   Plus, it really comes off as lacking when you consider the albums that came before (Fair Warning) and after (1984) it.

[Cool Chris]

Diver Down has my favorite VH song, Pretty Woman. Not sure I could name another song off that album, but I am really only knowledgeable about the band's material in a "Greatest Hits" sorta way.

[jammindude]

Diver Down has my favorite VH song, Pretty Woman. Not sure I could name another song off that album, but I am really only knowledgeable about the band's material in a "Greatest Hits" sorta way.

You're missing out.  The Full Bug and Hang 'Em High are really great blistering heavy songs.  And Little Guitars and Secrets are overlooked and underrated poppier tunes.    Those are probably my favorites.   It does almost feel like an EP though.  It's extremely short, and loaded with covers.  In fact, the four songs I just mentioned are the only *actual* Van Halen songs on the album.  The rest are covers, interludes, and intros.   But even those moments are fun.   I can't imagine a world where we didn't have BBBISWN and Happy Trials.  Even though they seem like throwaways, I still love them.

[Stadler]

Shouldn't surprise anyone that I fucking LOVE Diver Down.  Then again, I love all the DLR records.    I'm not even sure I can name my least favorite (maybe II?  Maybe Women And Children First? though "In A Simple Rhyme" may be my favorite VH song.)

Big Bad Bill is sort of a novelty (I know Peggy Lee did a version, and I am familiar with the Merle Haggard version from the early 70's, since my mom and dad are country fans).

But I like the covers (love the Kinks, love Roy Orbison, love Martha and the Vandellas, though I despise the Mick and David Bowie version; stunning that those are the guys that did Gimme Shelter and Ziggy Stardust) and while it's only nuggets, Ed plays some cool shit on that record. 

[TAC]

Totally with you on In A Simple Rhyme.

[SystematicThought]

I like on XM radio, they combine Intruder/Pretty Woman into one song. I have them combined on my iPod as well. Overall, I know I ranked it last, but I do actually like a lot of Diver Down. Little Guitars is probably in the top 10 DLR era tracks for me. I enjoy Dancing in the Streets, really like Where Have All The Good Times gone, BBWISWN is cool especially with Jan Van Halen on it. Didn't Eddie really hate Diver Down, which really motivated him to build 5150 so he didn't have to answer to Roth and Templeman?

It's odd that I combine Intruder and Pretty Woman when I don't combine Tora! Tora!/Loss of Control or Sunday Afternoon In The Park/One Foot Out The Door. I just really like the way Intruder leads into Pretty Woman.

Also, A Simple Rhyme is an amazing track. When the band comes back in after that quiet part, it's so cool. I really like Side 2 of Women and Children First

[TAC]

I love Loss Of Control.

[KevShmev]

Mayday! Mayday!

[jammindude]

Didn't Eddie really hate Diver Down, which really motivated him to build 5150 so he didn't have to answer to Roth and Templeman?

I saw the original interview where he was reviewing all the VH albums.   He never said he hated it.  He was just extremely dismissive of it because of all the covers.   He did say it was his least favorite at the time.   But in later interviews, he had softened his stance a bit.   Even saying he felt like he had been a little too harsh in the earlier interview. 

[hefdaddy42]

While I agree that Diver Down is the least of the DLR albums, it's still pretty good.  The originals are all really nice, and most of the covers are great too (except for "Dancing in the Streets").

[pg1067]

Short though it may be, Diver Down has more songs on my DLR era top 10 than Diver Down.  In album order:

Ain't Talkin' 'bout Love (is there another rock song with more apostrophes in the title?)
Feel Your Love Tonight
Dance the Night Away
Beautiful Girls
Everybody Wants Some
In a Simple Rhyme
Unchained
Where Have All the Good Time Gone
Hang 'Em High
Intruder/(Oh) Pretty Woman

(and yes, I'm aware I have nothing from 1984 here, and yes, that's intentional)

[cramx3]

I say start with VH1, why not? It's their first and one of the top classic hard rock albums of all time.  And just go from there chronologically.

If you want to go with Sammy, start with 5150 his first and his best with them IMO and go from there chronologically.

[KevShmev]

Short though it may be, Diver Down has more songs on my DLR era top 10 than Diver Down. 

Sounds like a paradox. 

[pg1067]

Short though it may be, Diver Down has more songs on my DLR era top 10 than Diver Down. 

Sounds like a paradox. 

yaaarrrgggggghhh...

I meant DD has more songs on the list than any other DLR-era album.

If you want to go with Sammy, start with 5150 his first and his best with them IMO and go from there chronologically.

Go chronologically, but skip OU812.

[cramx3]

If you want to go with Sammy, start with 5150 his first and his best with them IMO and go from there chronologically.

Go chronologically, but skip OU812.

Maybe my least favorite VH album overall (although I haven't listened to 3 in ages to really compare) but I guess I should say with a caveate, if you don't like this album please give F.U.C.K. a try as it gets back to being really good.  However I know some people do like that album so there is that.

[pg1067]

If you want to go with Sammy, start with 5150 his first and his best with them IMO and go from there chronologically.

Go chronologically, but skip OU812.

Maybe my least favorite VH album overall (although I haven't listened to 3 in ages to really compare) but I guess I should say with a caveate, if you don't like this album please give F.U.C.K. a try as it gets back to being really good.  However I know some people do like that album so there is that.

Agree, and I have had  -- until 4:40:41 p.m. on June 4, 2019 -- never heard anyone say OU812 is better than FUCK.

[KevShmev]

OU812 is better than For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.

[TAC]

OU812 is better than For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.

Not sure if that is true, but OU812 is definitely better than 5150.

[KevShmev]

Honestly, all four albums with Hagar are so strong that I could make legit arguments as to why each is the best of the four.

[TAC]

I'd replace "strong" with "comparable"

[King Postwhore]

OU812 is better than For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.

Not sure if that is true, but OU812 is definitely better than 5150.

No, just no.