Fallen heroes?

[Ruba]

There's one thing I've been thinking of after finding out one thing about one of my favourite bands. Basically, guitarist Mikko "Pantse" Syrjä of Eppu Normaali was convicted of assaulting his wife of 20 years for two months in probation. According to medical reports, the wife had suffered a concussion and a broken arm. Pantse has been denying all accusations. One of the things that pisses me off the most is that I found out about the verdict only this month, while it had been given last October. No major news outlets neither the band themselves had commented on it (I knew about the trial but had no idea of the outcome). I sort of understand that in these times the band commenting on it would mean them loss ticket sales and even gigs and calls for resignment of Pantse (can't see it happening because he's an original member and the brother of the lead singer) so it's probably a business decision, but doesn't make it any better in my eyes.

It is also difficult for me because he is one of my favourite guitarists. Eppu Normaali is playing a gig in my home town in August. I've seen them four times and I wanted to go, but now I am not sure I want to anymore.

There's also been couple of other cases of musicians I've hold to high regards I do not want to support anymore. Jesse Lacey of Brand New was outed for his predatory behaviour towards his female fans (some teenage), such as sending dick pics and forcibly kissing them etc. around the time of the #metoo-movement. The band was on their final tour, but ended up cancelling rest of their tour dates and are in all probability done for good. I'll say good riddance. Also, I do not want to support Megadeth in any way, because Dave Mustaine visited Alex Jones' radio show and a friend of Alex Jones's is no friend of mine. But none of the above cases mean I quit listening to those bands. I just probably won't buy any of their records or attend their shows.

Is there any artists you used to be a fan of, but did something that makes you not want to support them anymore?

[DTA]

Dave Kerzner of Sound Of Contact posted tons of anti-Trump shit on his facebook page and it annoyed the hell out of me. I lean right politically, and I understand not everyone loves Trump (understatement) but I can't stand musicians or actors soap-boxing about politics and can't imagine how stupid they'd have to be to potentially alienate listeners. Just play music and shut up. Be like James Hetfield of Metallica and refuse to speak about politics in any way. I wouldn't say this is a case of a "fallen hero" since that's too extreme, but I'd rather give money to musicians that don't voice their opinions on shit like this.

[Ruba]

The differences in political opinions is one thing I've thought for sure. I am left-leaning and pretty much a socialist in regards to American views, but I don't mind differing opinions as long they keep civil tone.

And of course, if you think one of your favourite bands made an album so album terrible you can't possibly defend it, that does definitely fit this topic. It doesn't have to be political.

[Stadler]

I don't offer this to be judgmental or to point fingers, but I'm not sure there is something.  Then again, I've never really liked an artist that was a pedophile (if you don't count Jimmy Page).   I'm kind of used to not agreeing with people on politics (both sides), so except in the rarest case (some of the latter day Neil Young records) that ain't it.   

[Samsara]

Is there any artists you used to be a fan of, but did something that makes you not want to support them anymore?

I could write a book. 

Most of us who are fortunate/unfortunate enough to either get close to our favorite musicians, or, as is the case here, something comes to public light about them personally that doesn't sit well with you, it is a recipe for disaster, depending on how the impact of that band/artist has had on you over the years. If you're just a casual fan, maybe you can gloss over. But if you've been a fan for decades, predicated not just how the music moved you, but also on how the band carried themselves in public, then obviously it is a big problem.

There's no real solution except to force yourself to remember music is entertainment, and the music is not the person. Yes, their personality is in that music, but music for the listener, while we get an emotional connection to it, that is OUR connection to it, not a connection to the artist. It's unique to each of us. Viewed in that light, if something bad comes down about the artist, hopefully as a fan, you can still move forward and enjoy the music, as opposed to the artist.

It's a really fine line, and I struggle with it hardcore. I've found a way around it for my personality, but in the end, there are some lineups of bands or artists I simply cannot support any longer, knowing who they are as people, and what they are REALLY like. You'd be really surprised how many are wolves in sheep's clothing.

*edited to correct grammar/spelling

[TAC]

Listening to and/or enjoying music, art, or sports is one thing. To me, at my age, for me to be a fan, there has to be a certain degree of integrity.

 

[Stadler]

I think we're at a similar point, maybe.  "The music is not the person". 

I met Fish once, on his 13th Star tour, and he was a dick.  Maybe I don't go out of my way to send money/buy CDs through his shop any more, but that doesn't lessen the impact of, say, Slainte Mhath.   

I was deeply disappointed at the time that Myles Kennedy had his roadie run interference on me and two other fans outside of the Highline Ballroom after his solo show.  The roadie - well, I think he was higher up than a roadie, because he wasn't loading the truck - literally walked up, asked us whether we liked Alter Bridge or Slash or both, then, in mid reply looked over his shoulder, saw Myles walking down the sidewalk away from us and said "oops, later dude!", hopped in the equipment van and drove off.   It is what it is; I can only choose to assume he had a reason.

I think there's an understanding - and (not a joke at all) growing up a Kiss fan you sort of got used to this, though for me it was Peter and Vinnie Vincent, not Gene or Paul - that you can only expect so much of these guys.  That one plays an instrument well doesn't make them a good humanitarian. 

[Samsara]

Listening to and/or enjoying music, art, or sports is one thing. To me, at my age, for me to be a fan, there has to be a certain degree of integrity.

Well, you ARE as old as a dinosaur, and have 35,000 posts now, so... 

[TAC]

[Ruba]

Is there any artists you used to be a fan of, but did something that makes you not want to support them anymore?

I could write a book. 

-- --

It's a really fine line, and I struggle with it hardcore. I've found a way around it for my personality, but in the end, there are some lineups of bands or artists I simply cannot support any longer, knowing who they are as people, and what they are REALLY like. You'd be really surprised how many are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Oh yeah, I bet you got some stories about Queensr˙che/Tate.

After all, it's up for anyone to decide what kind of behavior from their idols they are or are not able to gloss over.

Then again, I've never really liked an artist that was a pedophile (if you don't count Jimmy Page).

There's a disturbingly large number of rockstars who have been into kids/teens, and it's highly likely there's many cases that aren't publicly well-known. Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis, Gary Glitter, Michael Jackson... Probably the worst offender being Ian Watkins of Lostprophets. If you don't know about him, let me warn you first that reading about him may cause nausea and an urge to kick the SOB on the nuts. That's one case where the former fanbase was completely alienated by his actions.

I met Fish once, on his 13th Star tour, and he was a dick.  Maybe I don't go out of my way to send money/buy CDs through his shop any more, but that doesn't lessen the impact of, say, Slainte Mhath.

I don't know whether Fish has any reputation of being rude towards fans, but maybe you just happened to meet him on a bad day or something. But I totally understand, I'd probably be heartbroken if say, Bruce Dickinson would act like an ass towards me.

[romdrums]

I met Fish once, on his 13th Star tour, and he was a dick. 

His name is Derek Dick, what did you expect? 

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I met Fish once, on his 13th Star tour, and he was a dick. 

His name is Derek Dick, what did you expect? 

There it is! I was wondering if someone was going to mention this 

[Stadler]

Fair play, he announced on his website that he would show up at a local bar - if anyone could recommend one - and sell his merch because the venue - the TLA on South Street - was taking what he thought was too big a cut.   Apparently the fan that set it up thought that 2,000 people were going to come (the venue fits 1,000 and I don't think it was sold out because I bought a ticket that day for my daughter) and picked a larger bar, skipping over like eight places in between. He also didn't tell the owner - a guy I later came to be quasi-friends with, a crusty guy from North Ireland - that he would be selling shit, so there was beef.   So as I understand it, Fish was at another bar about three doors down from the venue, had to up and walk - with his merch - about five blocks away, only to find that he couldn't sell.   

My at-the-time 8-year-old daughter - purely by coincidence - had her face painted at day care that day and looked vaguely reminiscent of his early face-painting days, and was with me at the bar/restaurant.  So when I went to get 13th Star signed, she was with me, and she said something to the effect of "I painted my face too!" and he was all "look, I don't have time for that. I have a line I have to get through!"  I'm willing to concede that "dick" might be strong, and I've got my dad defenses up, but contrast to when I met Paul Stanley, also with her, and Paul got down on one knee and talked to her like she was the only person in the room:  "Wow, those are some nice earrings!  They match your nails!".  Asking her about school.   No, he probably didn't give a fuck about her answers, I get that, but it made HER feel special.  He EASILY gave her 10 minutes of his time, including a photo, with a line of people that was perhaps twice as long as that waiting for Fish to scribble on their albums.  I'll also note that a couple years ago when Tara was slighted (it had something to do with a modeling appearance if I recall) he was all indignant and unleashing the Scottish vitriol. 

[Grappler]

I've even reduced my interaction with musicians through social media as well...I asked a question to Stu Block when he was looking for weed on Iced Earth's last European tour and a few anti-drug fans compounded my question by lecturing him about it.  So I got lumped in with that group when I was just curious if it affected his voice like tobacco smoking does, and if so, why would he do it while on tour?  I don't use the stuff, so I have no clue.  But that interaction really bothered me for a while, even when I went to see the band months later.  And that sucked - I should be really excited to see my favorite band live, but I was still irritated.  I eventually got over it and just decided that it's not important to feel connected to musicians online when I just want to enjoy their music.

As for the original question, luckily, most of my favorite musician's haven't done something that awful where I can't stand to listen to them anymore.  I did learn some things about one musician and group that has affected my enjoyment of their music somewhat, but that feeling had already been there and the new info only added to the downward slide.

[MirrorMask]

This made me remember that a known singer, who has a family, totally wanted to bang an internet-friend of mine many years ago  she actually got on the tourbus before realizing "what the hell am I doing" and walking away.

I wonder how this is common in the world - musicians wanting to shag fans regardless of who's waiting at home - , and I assume that the answer is the same for how much sex elder people have: much more than we'd care to admit or would like to know.

[KevShmev]

There are a lot of musicians who make music I like/love, but I am not a fan of as people (Steve Howe, Eddie Van Halen, James Young, Mike Portnoy, Ted Nugent, Don Henley, Geoff Tate, etc.), but I would never stop listening to their music because of it.

[Stadler]

This made me remember that a known singer, who has a family, totally wanted to bang an internet-friend of mine many years ago  she actually got on the tourbus before realizing "what the hell am I doing" and walking away.

I wonder how this is common in the world - musicians wanting to shag fans regardless of who's waiting at home - , and I assume that the answer is the same for how much sex elder people have: much more than we'd care to admit or would like to know.

Robert Plant has talked about this at length (or at least as much as he talks about anything; he's a very slippery guy in that regard).  If you believe the darker Zeppelin biographies, that dichotomy is a contributing factor in Bonham's death.   Plant was rather articulate in relating how his life in the Midlands and his life in LA on tour were almost dizzyingly different worlds and he was able to tap into different parts of his psyche in both places.

Tom Jones (I know, I know) has talked about this as well.  He was married for something like 59 years to the same woman, and yet by his own admission, slept with upwards of 250 groupies a year while on tour.  She didn't like it, but however the dynamic worked she stuck around until her death a year or so ago.   

[Stadler]

There are a lot of musicians who make music I like/love, but I am not a fan of as people (Steve Howe, Eddie Van Halen, James Young, Mike Portnoy, Ted Nugent, Don Henley, Geoff Tate, etc.), but I would never stop listening to their music because of it.

I get most of those, but James Young?  Styx?  What's doing there? 

[KevShmev]

I get most of those, but James Young?  Styx?  What's doing there?

His attitude and bitterness towards Dennis DeYoung is very oft-putting.  Tommy Shaw and DDY aren't perfect either, but those guys did almost all of the heavy lifting in regards to songwriting during the classic Styx era, so I can forgive them both for any drama that might have gone public.  Young basically lucked out by ending up in a band with those guys (the band went almost nowhere during the Wooden Nickel years when he wrote and sang more songs), and if not for DDY, he probably would have ended up as a failed rock star who had to get a "real job," yet has showed zero appreciation.

[Samsara]

I've even reduced my interaction with musicians through social media as well...I asked a question to Stu Block when he was looking for weed on Iced Earth's last European tour and a few anti-drug fans compounded my question by lecturing him about it.  So I got lumped in with that group when I was just curious if it affected his voice like tobacco smoking does, and if so, why would he do it while on tour?  I don't use the stuff, so I have no clue.  But that interaction really bothered me for a while, even when I went to see the band months later.  And that sucked - I should be really excited to see my favorite band live, but I was still irritated.  I eventually got over it and just decided that it's not important to feel connected to musicians online when I just want to enjoy their music.

I'm with you on the reduced interaction with musicians and other "celebrity" types on social platforms. If you have a differing opinion, don't you dare state that, because not only will the "celebrity" blow you up, then all the lap dog fans will pile on. Makes it absolutely ridiculous.

Oh yeah, I bet you got some stories about Queensr˙che/Tate.

After all, it's up for anyone to decide what kind of behavior from their idols they are or are not able to gloss over.

People ask me all the time about why I no longer go see or support the current iteration of Queensryche. I don't really elaborate, mostly because of my above social media example. If I say something, it won't matter. I don't have the platform those guys have, and their word is Gospel in the eyes of the fans. So anything I said would be labeled as untrue, even if it isn't. So it really isn't worth it.

[Ruba]

This made me remember that a known singer, who has a family, totally wanted to bang an internet-friend of mine many years ago  she actually got on the tourbus before realizing "what the hell am I doing" and walking away.

I wonder how this is common in the world - musicians wanting to shag fans regardless of who's waiting at home - , and I assume that the answer is the same for how much sex elder people have: much more than we'd care to admit or would like to know.

Well, it's a well-established phenomenon that male rock stars bang groupies while on tour. I don't care what two (or sometimes more) consenting adults do with each other, but admittedly having sex with other people when your wife and possible kids are waiting at home is dickish behaviour.

[Stadler]

This made me remember that a known singer, who has a family, totally wanted to bang an internet-friend of mine many years ago  she actually got on the tourbus before realizing "what the hell am I doing" and walking away.

I wonder how this is common in the world - musicians wanting to shag fans regardless of who's waiting at home - , and I assume that the answer is the same for how much sex elder people have: much more than we'd care to admit or would like to know.

Well, it's a well-established phenomenon that male rock stars bang groupies while on tour. I don't care what two (or sometimes more) consenting adults do with each other, but admittedly having sex with other people when your wife and possible kids are waiting at home is dickish behaviour.

Agreed, but only dickish if the spouse is not good with it.   I imagine there are some who by disposition are okay with it, and others that understand that that's the life of a rock star.   

[ErHaO]

Dave Kerzner of Sound Of Contact posted tons of anti-Trump shit on his facebook page and it annoyed the hell out of me. I lean right politically, and I understand not everyone loves Trump (understatement) but I can't stand musicians or actors soap-boxing about politics and can't imagine how stupid they'd have to be to potentially alienate listeners. Just play music and shut up. Be like James Hetfield of Metallica and refuse to speak about politics in any way. I wouldn't say this is a case of a "fallen hero" since that's too extreme, but I'd rather give money to musicians that don't voice their opinions on shit like this.

Honestly, so much music has underlying political (or religious) messages and an even larger degree of music is about/based on personal opinions/experiences. Thus, I cannot agree with the "shut up and play music" stance. During concerts and the likes, yes, I would prefer  them to keep it at a minimum, but on social media people should be able to voice their own opinions, famous or not. Now, I do get that it isn't fun to find out someone you consider a "hero" of sorts disagrees with you  on a fundamental level. For example, Jon Shaffer has said some (to me) pretty nutty Alex Jones-tier stuff that I almost couldn't disagree more with, but I still love the music and recently enjoyed watching interviews with him.

That said, political discourse over the internet has turned so toxic that I get why people are getting irritated when someone takes a stand.

[Ruba]

This made me remember that a known singer, who has a family, totally wanted to bang an internet-friend of mine many years ago  she actually got on the tourbus before realizing "what the hell am I doing" and walking away.

I wonder how this is common in the world - musicians wanting to shag fans regardless of who's waiting at home - , and I assume that the answer is the same for how much sex elder people have: much more than we'd care to admit or would like to know.

Well, it's a well-established phenomenon that male rock stars bang groupies while on tour. I don't care what two (or sometimes more) consenting adults do with each other, but admittedly having sex with other people when your wife and possible kids are waiting at home is dickish behaviour.

Agreed, but only dickish if the spouse is not good with it.   I imagine there are some who by disposition are okay with it, and others that understand that that's the life of a rock star.   

Sure, but if I was the spouse in question, I'd make it damn sure they get screened for STD's when returning from tour.

[Stadler]

HAHA, fair point.  What goes on in Vegas doesn't always stay in Vegas.