Author Topic: 15 year old brings pellet gun to school, gets shot dead by two cops - thoughts? (Read 7650 times)

orcus116 · « **on:** January 04, 2012, 08:15:07 PM »

I was browsing around and saw this fairly new article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/education/texas-student-with-pellet-gun-is-killed-by-police.html

A 15-year-old student at a Brownsville middle school was shot and killed by police officers on Wednesday after he displayed a gun in the school’s main hallway, the authorities said. The weapon was later identified as a carbon dioxide-powered .177-caliber pellet gun. The eighth grader, Jaime Gonzalez, had brandished the weapon in the hallway at Cummings Middle School, after most students were already in their classrooms. The student pointed the gun at Brownsville police officers who came to the scene, and he ignored numerous commands to drop it, police officials said. Two officers fired their weapons, and the student was shot twice. Police officials said he had assaulted a student before the officers arrived and told witnesses that he was going to confront the officers with the weapon.

I've seen some people jump on the cops for this but I think they were 100% in the right if the story is accurate. Some have said they should have shot to maim but there's a time and place for that and a school is sure as hell not one of them.

Volk9 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2012, 08:16:59 PM »

Cops were in the right. I see no problems with this.

Stupid kid being stupid

Scheavo · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2012, 08:26:47 PM »

If you have a gun like object in your hands, its pointed at people, you're told to drop it, and you don't, then... what the fuck are you really trying to accomplish?

One time where I might actually feel sorry for the officers (assuming their not complete asshole cops), cause they're gonna have to live with this moronic kids actions. Of course, hinges upon the actual events, but don't really see what else the cops could have done. To compare it to an event that really bothers me, it sounds nothing like that wood carver who got shot in Seattle.

Nel · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2012, 08:37:45 PM »

Yeah, as the story is now, I'm inclined to agree. Pointing a gun (well, what looks like a gun) at the cops, don't put it down when told to, in the school... that's just what was going to happen.

Orbert · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2012, 09:02:29 PM »

If the story is accurate, I find no fault with the cops. There is no "shoot to maim" when someone's pointing a gun at you. You take him out. A pellet gun is still a gun, and looks like one. Point one at the cops? Good-bye.

El Barto · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2012, 09:40:11 PM »

Certainly unfortunate that the kid was too stupid to realize the consequences of his actions.

rumborak · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2012, 09:56:44 PM »

Quote from: El Barto on January 04, 2012, 09:40:11 PM

Certainly unfortunate that the kid was too stupid to realize the consequences of his actions.

That's the "inspiration" for just about every second GIF on the internet.

rumborak

Orbert · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2012, 10:57:53 PM »

It's unfortunate that some people are that incredibly stupid, but he didn't accidentally point a gun at cops, and there is only one possible outcome when you do that. I really find it difficult to believe that he didn't know what would happen.

ResultsMayVary · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2012, 11:03:20 PM »

If the story is accurate, then the cops did the right thing. Sorry to see a young kind get killed, but he definitely didn't obey the police's command to drop the weapon.

Scheavo · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2012, 11:05:19 PM »

All signs point to: idiot.

kári · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2012, 02:46:53 AM »

Still, why was he shot dead?

Sigz · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2012, 02:54:27 AM »

Honestly, the idea that someone can control whether they shoot someone dead or just wounded is absurd.

kári · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2012, 03:54:09 AM »

Well you can't 100% control it of course. But say he has head or upper chest wounds.. That would indicate that they were trying to kill him. Why not shoot him in the abdominal/hip area instead?
Also, why did 2 officers shoot him? The one shooting him and him not shooting back wasn't enough?

I don't know how it happened, and the officers may very well have been in their right... But I'm leaning towards "they could've handled this differently".

Sigz · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2012, 04:11:07 AM »

Okay:

1) abdominal wounds are horrific and in no way non-lethal.

2) once again, the idea that a police officer, someone who's likely never been in an under-stress shooting scenario, can just choose where to shoot someone in a split second is ridiculous.

3) the two officers shoot simultaneously because they have to assume that the gun is real, and that one of them could possibly be shot by the attacker.

snapple · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2012, 04:20:25 AM »

You have to shoot like that in this situation. What if you only wound and he shoots back? These guys have lives, too.

kári · « **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2012, 04:21:38 AM »

1) Yes but certainly they are less lethal than shooting someone in the chest or head.
2) This is true. However, how do you know it was in a split second? He was asked repeatedly to put the gun down so surely they had been pointing their guns at him for that time already.
3) Maybe they shot simultaneously, maybe not. It says that two officers fired their weapons and that he was shot twice. Doesn't mean that they both shot once and both hit him right?

I'm just saying... Again, I wasn't there, I don't know how it went, and the officers may very well have done the right thing.

lordxizor · « **Reply #16 on:** January 05, 2012, 06:05:59 AM »

It's easy to forget that the cops or people too and are probably scared shitless in that moment. I know if I thought my life was in danger in a situation like that I wouldn't be thinking about wounding the kid. I'd be thinking about doing what gave me the best chance to get out of there alive. If the story is accurate, the cops did exactly what they should have done.

jsem · « **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2012, 06:49:17 AM »

This is terrible.

Chino · « **Reply #18 on:** January 05, 2012, 07:42:30 AM »

The article makes it sound as though the police knew going in that he had a gun. What a sad story. I can't blame the cops, but if they knew they were going up a 15 year old, it kind of sucks they didn't bring a bean bag shotgun

7StringedBeast · « **Reply #19 on:** January 05, 2012, 08:18:48 AM »

Quote from: Chino on January 05, 2012, 07:42:30 AM

The article makes it sound as though the police knew going in that he had a gun. What a sad story. I can't blame the cops, but if they knew they were going up a 15 year old, it kind of sucks they didn't bring a bean bag shotgun

It doesn't matter how old the person is. If they are holding a loaded weapon, the police are going to take them out before any students or the officers themselves get shot and killed.

If you have ever fired a gun, you know how devastating a round can be, and you are damn happy you are behind that barrel when the gun goes off. Imagine having a barrel pointed straight at you and you think this person is about to pull the trigger. You react, and it all probably goes down in seconds. Also, aiming a pistol is a lot harder than you think it is.

El Barto · « **Reply #20 on:** January 05, 2012, 08:22:38 AM »

Quote from: Chino on January 05, 2012, 07:42:30 AM

The article makes it sound as though the police knew going in that he had a gun. What a sad story. I can't blame the cops, but if they knew they were going up a 15 year old, it kind of sucks they didn't bring a bean bag shotgun

LTL weapons are specifically ruled out in instances where you're going up against deadly force. The idea is to always have a more powerful weapon than the bad guy. LTL is called for when he or they are unarmed, and that's about it.

@kári: For one thing, cops are notoriously inaccurate. It's a simple matter of getting very little practice at shooting in a real situation. In this instance, only 2 out of 3 shots hit, despite [I presume] close range and narrow confines. They're trained, and rightfully so, to shoot center of mass. They're not shooting at the heart, they're shooting at the biggest area to insure the greatest likelihood of a hit. A shot and a miss only gives your bad guy, who in many cases will be far better at shooting real people than you are, an opportunity to kill you.

The other problem there is Jeff Dove and Ben Grogan. Twenty five years ago the FBI learned the hard way that a person with a fatal gunshot wound can still cause a helluva lot of damage. In this case, one of the bad guys was shot in the heart, and managed to kill and/or maim 3 agents before he bled out. Cops have been pretty seriously fucked up about this ever since. Shooting to stop has been the norm ever since, and that means lights out as soon as possible.

bosk1 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 05, 2012, 08:47:58 AM »

Quote from: El Barto on January 05, 2012, 08:22:38 AM

In this case, one of the bad guys was shot in the heart

Yes, but I have it on good authority that you're to blame. You give love a bad name.

Vivace · « **Reply #22 on:** January 05, 2012, 09:35:03 AM »

I side with the cops on this one.

Sir GuitarCozmo · « **Reply #23 on:** January 05, 2012, 11:23:04 AM »

Quote from: bosk1 on January 05, 2012, 08:47:58 AM

Quote from: El Barto on January 05, 2012, 08:22:38 AM
In this case, one of the bad guys was shot in the heart

Yes, but I have it on good authority that you're to blame. You give love a bad name.

bosk1 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 05, 2012, 11:30:53 AM »

No applause please. This isn't about me. All I do is, I play my part, and you play your game.

In other news, a similar thing almost happened to me when I was 16. I wasn't quite as stupid as this kid, but unbeknownst to me and a friend of mine, we had a SWAT team tracking us for about half an hour in San Francisco and...well, let's just say that it could have ended very badly, but thankfully, it did not. When confronted with the barrel of plain-clothes S.F.P.D. member's gun and the command, PUT YOUR HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM--NOW!," a terrified and somewhat clueless facial expression coupled with immediate obedience go a long way in not getting a bullet implanted in your skull.

7StringedBeast · « **Reply #25 on:** January 05, 2012, 11:32:48 AM »

And from that day forth, young Bosk decided he wanted to be on the other side of the law process.

kirksnosehair · « **Reply #26 on:** January 05, 2012, 12:28:29 PM »

Tough situation. Can't blame the cops at all in this case.

Nekov · « **Reply #27 on:** January 05, 2012, 01:51:32 PM »

I say they shot him because he was latino...

All jokes aside, the kid had it coming. Why would anyone point a gun at a police officer and don't listen when they ask for it to be dropped? I don't think those officers will have any problem.

lordxizor · « **Reply #28 on:** January 05, 2012, 01:53:21 PM »

I'm going to guess the kid basically committed suicide by getting the police to shoot him. He wouldn't be the first one.

j · « **Reply #29 on:** January 05, 2012, 03:55:03 PM »

Little late to the discussion, but I read about this a couple days ago. Although the sources I was reading made it sound like the kid was only showing the gun to his friends, not "brandishing" it or aiming it at anyone. Were that the case, I would feel quite a bit differently, but again, who knows which account is accurate. I'd like to assume the cops wouldn't open fire unless the kid was at least aiming the weapon at them while refusing to drop it.

-J

El Barto · « **Reply #30 on:** January 05, 2012, 04:02:57 PM »

Might be talking different incidents, here. I believe the one with the dead 8th grader just happened yesterday morning.

j · « **Reply #31 on:** January 05, 2012, 04:07:20 PM »

Nah, same incident; I'm working nights at the hospital so my days are all running together I guess. It must have been yesterday morning I read about it.

-J

7StringedBeast · « **Reply #32 on:** January 05, 2012, 04:07:54 PM »

15 year old eighth grader?? 0_o

Scheavo · « **Reply #33 on:** January 05, 2012, 05:01:21 PM »

Quote from: j on January 05, 2012, 03:55:03 PM

Little late to the discussion, but I read about this a couple days ago. Although the sources I was reading made it sound like the kid was only showing the gun to his friends, not "brandishing" it or aiming it at anyone. Were that the case, I would feel quite a bit differently, but again, who knows which account is accurate. I'd like to assume the cops wouldn't open fire unless the kid was at least aiming the weapon at them while refusing to drop it.

-J

Think that occurred in my town, at least a damn near identical thing happened in Montana recently. But, then again, it is Montana.

hefdaddy42 · « **Reply #34 on:** January 06, 2012, 07:47:41 PM »

Quote from: Volk9 on January 04, 2012, 08:16:59 PM

Cops were in the right. I see no problems with this.

Stupid kid being stupid

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Author Topic: 15 year old brings pellet gun to school, gets shot dead by two cops - thoughts? (Read 7650 times)