Is it time for Dream Theater to go full electronica for one song?

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

NO.
it would be the worst song from their career.

even worse than build me up, break me down or prophets of war.

I was wondering that if you, as a classically (I assume) trained musician, have a certain dislike towards electronica just for the sake of it being electronica?

Not wanting to offend you or anything, it's just something that came on my mind. 

[VioletS16]

I say no, but ONLY because I HATE electronica. If DT chooses to do one, I just won't listen to it. I won't be very surprised. Cradle of Filth has a small handful of electronica/dance/funk songs and they seem even less likely do something like that, but hey.

If the band you love enough to participate in its online community does a song in a particular style, you'll refuse to listen to it? A bit close-minded, isn't that?

No. I don't love all their songs anyway. I'll probably give it a spin and I'll probably not like it, and won't listen to it again. There are a handful of songs from DT that I don't listen to because I don't like them. I just dislike electronica and I'll probably be curious about it and listen to it and maybe I'll like it. I'm not being "close-minded" if I don't and never listen to it again though.

[Dublagent66]

No.  There's too much of it already.  They need to lean more towards metal.

[theseoafs]

I say no, but ONLY because I HATE electronica. If DT chooses to do one, I just won't listen to it. I won't be very surprised. Cradle of Filth has a small handful of electronica/dance/funk songs and they seem even less likely do something like that, but hey.

If the band you love enough to participate in its online community does a song in a particular style, you'll refuse to listen to it? A bit close-minded, isn't that?

No. I don't love all their songs anyway. I'll probably give it a spin and I'll probably not like it, and won't listen to it again. There are a handful of songs from DT that I don't listen to because I don't like them. I just dislike electronica and I'll probably be curious about it and listen to it and maybe I'll like it. I'm not being "close-minded" if I don't and never listen to it again though.

That's fair, but surely you recognize the difference between your initial

If DT chooses to do one, I just won't listen to it.

and

I'll probably give it a spin and I'll probably not like it, and won't listen to it again.

I was just surprised you would go so far as to completely refuse to listen to a song on the grounds that it is electronic.

[kirksnosehair]

If I liked electronica I'd have electronica albums in my collection.  I don't like electronica and I don't want my favorite progressive metal band doing electronica, just like I don't want my favorite pizza place to start selling hardware and dog food.

[KevShmev]

No. I don't love all their songs anyway. I'll probably give it a spin and I'll probably not like it, and won't listen to it again. There are a handful of songs from DT that I don't listen to because I don't like them. I just dislike electronica and I'll probably be curious about it and listen to it and maybe I'll like it. I'm not being "close-minded" if I don't and never listen to it again though.

No offense, but going in with the attitude that you probably won't like it could be consider close-minded.  Or maybe not open-minded.  

[VioletS16]

No. I don't love all their songs anyway. I'll probably give it a spin and I'll probably not like it, and won't listen to it again. There are a handful of songs from DT that I don't listen to because I don't like them. I just dislike electronica and I'll probably be curious about it and listen to it and maybe I'll like it. I'm not being "close-minded" if I don't and never listen to it again though.

No offense, but going in with the attitude that you probably won't like it could be consider close-minded.  Or maybe not open-minded.

I guess I'm not coming off in the way that I'm meaning too. I just really don't like electronica and as talented and magnificent as DT is I just can't see myself enjoying it...my apolgoies if I come off as close minded...

[5]

I'd like to hear it. It's progressive music after all, experimentation is desirable.

Also, if it ended up anywhere in the territory of King Crimson's Power to Believe, then heeeell yeaah.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

No. I don't love all their songs anyway. I'll probably give it a spin and I'll probably not like it, and won't listen to it again. There are a handful of songs from DT that I don't listen to because I don't like them. I just dislike electronica and I'll probably be curious about it and listen to it and maybe I'll like it. I'm not being "close-minded" if I don't and never listen to it again though.

No offense, but going in with the attitude that you probably won't like it could be consider close-minded.  Or maybe not open-minded.  

Right on.

DT fans, while claiming to be open-minded, are often very restrictive in terms of the music they listen to. (Not talking specifically about Violet, it's just an observation I have from people that come and go in these forums, considering I've been posting here for over 5 years).

I love electronica, as much as I love pop (I have One Republic, Savage Garden and Backstreet Boys in my iPod and I'm not ashamed in any way about it), and I normally get to defend such genres from the progressive metal fan's assault of music expertise and cunning. DT fans put themselves into a more "intelectual" category, and anything that doesn't fall into that category often gets criticized and bashed to no end. The electronica that often pops up in night clubs is standard 4/4 beat that, definitely, starts sucking after a while. In the same fashion, there's a lot of progressive metal that I consider crappy because they play hard for the sake of playing hard, and play alternate 9/16 and 5/8 time signatures just for the fuck of it. There's crappy metal, there's crappy progressive metal, there's crappy electronica, but following that trend, there's amazing electronic music as well.

I mentioned Infected Mushroom earlier, as an example of a style blend that DT could pull off amazingly well. Infected Mushroom has a shitload of electronica, but they have a shitload of rock on them as well. They experiment with sound like few other bands in their genre, and they are quite amazing. Listen to Project 100, that song is very progressive, melodic and electronic; and it's amazing. I'm in conflict with people relating electronica to 4/4 beats pulled off by a sequencer and a synthesizer. Don't we, Dream Theater fans, get angry when people say DT music is fast for the sake of being fast and has no soul? Such a common description for Dream Theater (and other progressive metal bands, for that matter) "Great musicians, but no soul whatsoever in their music". Well, time to get out of the bubble, boys and gals.

Back on the topic, I really love the idea...also, I recall an interview where MP and JP said they were planning initially on 6DOIT to have world music references, which sounded like an amazing idea to me. Now that they reminded everyone, with ADTOE, that they still can sound like good DT without Portnoy, I'd like them to expand their horizons even more.

[lithium112]

^ This was very well said.

[Jarzombek]

NO.
it would be the worst song from their career.

even worse than build me up, break me down or prophets of war.

I was wondering that if you, as a classically (I assume) trained musician, have a certain dislike towards electronica just for the sake of it being electronica?

Not wanting to offend you or anything, it's just something that came on my mind. 

Actually I am a drummer (not as good as I would like to be), and I do not "dislike" electronica. I just hate it. DT is my favorite band since 1998 cause I love metal and progressive rock, so that's what I wanna hear everytime I buy a new DT album.

[KevShmev]

Well said, DarkLord_Lalinc! *golf clap*

[FsF]

Without wanting to do any sort of stirring whatsoever, I honestly wouldn't trust DT to do a very good job of it unless they joined up again with Kevin. Admittedly, that opinion is pretty much unfounded, since the only member i've seen do anything like it is Jordan, when he's been mucking about with some Aphex Twin-ny samples. Still, if they did, and recorded an album similar to OSI's 'Blood' I would explode with joy.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Both Kevin and Jordan have several electronica influences, although very different in their own rights. Kevin's electronica style can be very well recognized in his solo albums and in his OSI work, wheras Jordan has more of an Aphex Twin-crazed electronica vibe.

[kirksnosehair]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I summarily reject the assertion that it's "close minded" to not like something.  I see this argument all the time on forums like this and I think it's a weak argument. 

"Close minded" is blindly refusing to evaluate something new that you're perhaps unfamiliar with.    It is NOT "close minded" to not enjoy a certain style of music, nor is it "close minded" to not want your favorite band that traditionally has played progressive metal to venture into a different genre that you do not enjoy.  That's called "taste."   If you like it, fine, that's good for you.  But labeling those who do not like it as "close minded" is little more than elitist snobbery.   

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Funny, 'cause elitist snobbery is what seems to plague the minds of lots of Dream Theater fans.


Please, take into consideration as well that I was merely posting my opinion and my take on things on how I see discussions take place over here (one thinks that's obvious but hey, people get all hyped up sometimes). I know about taste, and I know people are entitled to their own opinion (I just posted mine), but believe me, lots of discussion often limits on "what you like is wrong".

You know, Dream Theater is my favorite band, but I hate talking about music (or sometimes, even Dream Theater) with other Dream Theater fans (probably, one of the reasons I joined this forum, because people seem to be very open to lots of things around these parts). I prefer talking about music with a more much relaxed and "open-minded" (now, trying to attribute that word its own meaning) music fan that will not go all like "What? electronica? Seriously? Why are you playing Van Buuren's Imagine after Dream Theater's Scenes from a Memory? Armin just toys with samples, wheras John Petrucci can play over 15 notes per second!"

If you talk with several DT fans outside these forums or whatever, you may probably have some similar experiences to share with me later on. 

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I say yes.  An emphatic yes.  They have been subtly incorporating electronic elements here and there over the years, and the bits at the beginning of both Outcry and Build Me Up, Break Me Down are great, and I'd love to see them go full electronica for a full song on the next album.  Now, I am not talking just fake drums and nothing else, but maybe like a fast-paced song driven by electronic drums, but still plenty rocking and featuring a great riff that also helps drives the song forward.  I think they could do something really good like that.  And they could even have Mangini play some real drums on it, although if they didn't it would be okay, too. 

Who's with me?

I feel like going electronica for a full song is about the most cliched thing they could do. I could just be talking out of my ass, but I feel like a lot of artists go in that direction after awhile. Maybe I've just been listening to too much Radiohead.

[Sigz]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I summarily reject the assertion that it's "close minded" to not like something.  I see this argument all the time on forums like this and I think it's a weak argument. 

"Close minded" is blindly refusing to evaluate something new that you're perhaps unfamiliar with.    It is NOT "close minded" to not enjoy a certain style of music, nor is it "close minded" to not want your favorite band that traditionally has played progressive metal to venture into a different genre that you do not enjoy.  That's called "taste."   If you like it, fine, that's good for you.  But labeling those who do not like it as "close minded" is little more than elitist snobbery.   

You're right in some cases, however the problem is many of the people who say "I don't like techno" (for example) have never given the genre a single chance. They're vaguely aware of what it sounds like, heard half a song on the radio and some generic tune in the nightclub scene of an action movie, and then completely write it off. That's where the closed-mindedness comes in.

[theseoafs]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I summarily reject the assertion that it's "close minded" to not like something.  I see this argument all the time on forums like this and I think it's a weak argument. 

"Close minded" is blindly refusing to evaluate something new that you're perhaps unfamiliar with.    It is NOT "close minded" to not enjoy a certain style of music, nor is it "close minded" to not want your favorite band that traditionally has played progressive metal to venture into a different genre that you do not enjoy.  That's called "taste."   If you like it, fine, that's good for you.  But labeling those who do not like it as "close minded" is little more than elitist snobbery.   

Nobody here is arguing that people who don't like electronica are close-minded. People are arguing that those who are bashing or refusing to listen to this hypothetical DT song or calling it the "worst in their career" simply on the grounds that it's electronic are engaging in close-mindedness, because that's sort of the definition of close-mindedness.

EDIT:

"Close minded" is blindly refusing to evaluate something new that you're perhaps unfamiliar with.

That's what the dismissal of this (again, hypothetical) DT song is.

[kirksnosehair]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I summarily reject the assertion that it's "close minded" to not like something.  I see this argument all the time on forums like this and I think it's a weak argument. 

"Close minded" is blindly refusing to evaluate something new that you're perhaps unfamiliar with.    It is NOT "close minded" to not enjoy a certain style of music, nor is it "close minded" to not want your favorite band that traditionally has played progressive metal to venture into a different genre that you do not enjoy.  That's called "taste."   If you like it, fine, that's good for you.  But labeling those who do not like it as "close minded" is little more than elitist snobbery.   

You're right in some cases, however the problem is many of the people who say "I don't like techno" (for example) have never given the genre a single chance. They're vaguely aware of what it sounds like, heard half a song on the radio and some generic tune in the nightclub scene of an action movie, and then completely write it off. That's where the closed-mindedness comes in.

Right, isn't that what I just posted? 

I've heard plenty of electronica.  I don't like it.  That doesn't make me close-minded, it makes me someone who doesn't like electronica.   

[kirksnosehair]

No. I don't love all their songs anyway. I'll probably give it a spin and I'll probably not like it, and won't listen to it again. There are a handful of songs from DT that I don't listen to because I don't like them. I just dislike electronica and I'll probably be curious about it and listen to it and maybe I'll like it. I'm not being "close-minded" if I don't and never listen to it again though.

No offense, but going in with the attitude that you probably won't like it could be consider close-minded.  Or maybe not open-minded.

I guess I'm not coming off in the way that I'm meaning too. I just really don't like electronica and as talented and magnificent as DT is I just can't see myself enjoying it...my apolgoies if I come off as close minded...

It's not close minded, and this is why I made my post above.  People have this tendency to label anyone who doesn't like ___________ <--insert genre here -as "close minded" and that is not true.

If you've tried something and you don't like it you don't like it.  It doesn't mean you're close minded it means you don't like it.

[iamtheeviltwin]

I mentioned Infected Mushroom earlier, as an example of a style blend that DT could pull off amazingly well. Infected Mushroom has a shitload of electronica, but they have a shitload of rock on them as well. They experiment with sound like few other bands in their genre, and they are quite amazing. Listen to Project 100, that song is very progressive, melodic and electronic; and it's amazing.

I decided to give this band a shot since you mentioned it Dark Lord.  This is good music.  I often like to put electronica and other dance music on as background noise while I do other things (sonic wallpaper).  This is complex enough that you can spend some mental energy giving it a listen.  I am going to have to dig deeper into their catalog.

As for the main argument, I wouldn't mind seeing DT incorporate more styles into their music.  I have always loved that they pull influences from many different sources and give it that signature DT sound.  I could easily see them doing a strong electronica-styled instrumental.  Mangini is enough of a monster at keeping a beat he could use his pads and play the electronic drums parts live. 

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

I like electronic music, but the song would fail horribly. I know it.

[Blazinarps]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vv1jrOJ7rI

[lumpy33]

for me, it depends on the style of electronica.  i'm not a fan of that repetative, quarter note bass thumping 110bpm club music, and that's probably why i can't envision them pulling off a tune like that successfully.  (i'm sure if any band could surprise me though, it would be d.t.)

i do think that a more energetic drum and bass style groove would provide an excellent backdrop for some sick d.t. material.  i'm thinking of something busy like squarepusher's uptempo stuff.  i'm betting mangini would kill some of that stuff in the style of drum and bass giant johnny rabb.

[johncal]

Might as well do a polka while they're at it...... Maybe some country too.

[BlobVanDam]

No. I don't love all their songs anyway. I'll probably give it a spin and I'll probably not like it, and won't listen to it again. There are a handful of songs from DT that I don't listen to because I don't like them. I just dislike electronica and I'll probably be curious about it and listen to it and maybe I'll like it. I'm not being "close-minded" if I don't and never listen to it again though.

No offense, but going in with the attitude that you probably won't like it could be consider close-minded.  Or maybe not open-minded.

I guess I'm not coming off in the way that I'm meaning too. I just really don't like electronica and as talented and magnificent as DT is I just can't see myself enjoying it...my apolgoies if I come off as close minded...

It's not close minded, and this is why I made my post above.  People have this tendency to label anyone who doesn't like ___________ <--insert genre here -as "close minded" and that is not true.

If you've tried something and you don't like it you don't like it.  It doesn't mean you're close minded it means you don't like it.

Yep, this. Open minded doesn't mean you like everything. It just means you give something a chance before making up your mind. And if we've heard enough electronica to know we don't like the defining characteristics of the genre, that's not close minded. I could listen to something a million times and still not like it, and it wouldn't make me more open minded. Everyone here has genres they're equally dismissive of.

[antigoon]

I all 100% for Dream Theater experimenting a little. They've gone back to the well and refined their classic sound pretty perfectly. I think something bold like that would be extremely refreshing. I can't even see myself listening to another DT record that continues the current sound more than a few times.

[Jamesman42]

i'm thinking of something busy like squarepusher's uptempo stuff.  i'm betting mangini would kill some of that stuff in the style of drum and bass giant johnny rabb.

This is the style of electronica I would like to see done. I thought MM had electronic drums on his kit? I think they could pull of some cool/crazy stuff as the whole song. I think it would work better as an instrumental, as well.

[theseoafs]

The logical fallacy here is saying A) you definitively dislike every song in a particular grouping and therefore that B) if DT were to make a song in that grouping, you would definitively dislike it. Again, no one's arguing that you have to love electronica and DT's electronica song.

Looking at it from the opposite direction: most of us will at least say that we like the prog metal genre. However, just because DT plays prog metal doesn't mean we're going to like every song DT does. Most of us have favorites and a few tunes we just can't stand. Genre just doesn't correspond to taste; in other words, just because we like a genre doesn't mean we'll like every song in that genre. You have to look at it on a song-by-song basis; not doing so would be close-minded.

The converse is true: let's say that, on the whole, you dislike a genre. There's nothing wrong with that. However, dismissing a song because it's in a particular genre is close-minded, because we have to look at it on a song-by-song basis.

In conclusion:

"I don't like techno." - Not close-minded.
"I don't like techno, but DT put out a techno song, so I guess I'll check it out." - Open-minded.
"I don't like techno, and DT put out a techno song, so eff that, I'm just gonna listen to Honor thy Father again." - Close-minded.

[BlobVanDam]

Only one or two people are actually saying that if DT did an electronica song that they'd dislike it. Most of us are only saying that we dislike the genre (or don't think DT are suited to it) and don't wish for DT to do a song in that style. And as a generalization, that is perfectly reasonable.
If they did one, I for one would give it a fair chance as I have with every other DT song, and I'm sure most others would too. I may even like it. But when you ask as a general hypothetical of whether we'd want DT to do a song in that style, why would I say yes to a genre that I don't like?

"I hate literally every single electronica song, and if DT wrote one I would hate it just because it was electronica" - Close minded
"I don't like electronica in general, so would prefer DT not write a song in that style" - Not close minded.

[E.S.]

Bring it on, chaps!
DT never limited themselves to any one genre, that concept doesn't seem to exist in their world.

A collab with Noisia, perhaps? 

[Cyclopssss]

Total electronica>? I don't think so, but I'd like them to do a total Sci-Fi inspired concept album.... that would totally rock imo.

[black_biff_stadler]

Something like a space opera in the vein of Ayreon?

[RaiseTheKnife]

No electronica please, if for any reason so that they'll be less backing tracks used in their live shows.