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Author Topic: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)  (Read 7045 times)

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Offline InfraredDream

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #70 on: November 27, 2011, 01:45:38 AM »
Quote from: lithium112 on November 25, 2011, 07:50:58 PM
And I think the BAI video won kind of on technical merit - particle system effects are not easy and sounds like this person spent a lot of time editing the video.

I totally agree and understand that, but it is boring, so it doesn't really make sense. Especially for a 13 min long song.
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Offline lithium112

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #71 on: November 27, 2011, 03:05:34 AM »
Maybe they were just trying to diversify the song choices for the prizes since like everyone did TITL for some reason.
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Offline Mladen

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #72 on: November 27, 2011, 06:26:24 AM »
So, which video won?
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Offline InfraredDream

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #73 on: November 27, 2011, 11:06:37 AM »
Quote from: lithium112 on November 27, 2011, 03:05:34 AM
Maybe they were just trying to diversify the song choices for the prizes since like everyone did TITL for some reason.

Could be. But the live video mixing the cameras from several people was the very best of Breaking All Illusions, in my opinion! I believe it required a lot of editing and synchronizing and is MUCH for enjoyable to watch. So, I really don't know why these two won. But oh well..
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Offline lithium112

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #74 on: November 27, 2011, 12:34:09 PM »
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Offline Mladen

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #75 on: November 27, 2011, 02:47:41 PM »
Wow, the one for Far from heaven is really cool.  :tup

I don't get what's special about the Breaking all illusions one, though, I could have done that in two minutes. Can anyone explain me why is that one the winner?
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Offline PetFish

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #76 on: November 27, 2011, 02:48:04 PM »
Well, it's been a few days, and I'm still mad that BAI was one of the winners.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not being a sore loser, I lose every day, but that video is a complete disgrace and insult to 80% of the other entries out there.

Why don't I just play BAI with a full-screen spectrum analyzer, screen-grab the video, then put some static Arial-font lyrics over it and send it in?  Let's just say "ok, I'll read the lyrics"... but what do you do the other 9 minutes?  Stare at blue bubbles?  There's no emotion or story or ANYTHING to keep anybody interested.  What a FUCKING JOKE.  GOD.
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Offline lithium112

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #77 on: November 27, 2011, 03:15:21 PM »
Making custom particle effects is not easy and you could NOT do it in 2 minutes. Here's a video of a tutorial for the same plugin that was used in the BAI video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiFGE9g0dgo . A lot of time and effort went into making the effect.

@Petfish I find your comments and attitude ironic given that earlier in the thread you were mad at someone for not showing tact towards your video. And that was just for saying that he's seen some better videos. To quote yourself, if you were having coffee with SherryZProductions, would you tell them that their video had "no emotion or story or ANYTHING" and that it's a fucking joke? I can see that you consider yourself an artist with your site and your DT art contests and stuff so I'd expect you to show some respect to your fellow artists.
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Offline iamtheeviltwin

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #78 on: November 27, 2011, 07:28:22 PM »
Quote from: InfraredDream on November 25, 2011, 05:36:22 PM
Quote from: PetFish on November 25, 2011, 04:19:23 PM
A single bubbly background for 13 minutes?  Would anyone actually want to watch that?  No, you'd minimize the window and go do something else while just listening to the song.  It looks like a visual soup spectrum analyzer that gets played in Winamp while music is playing.  The fact that this won over just about any of the others is a disgrace.

My thoughts exactly!!! The first 3 were among my personal favorites and I shared them, etc. Yours too. But the other 2  ??? Not just Breaking all Illusions that was a total WTF?? feeling for me, but the other one with the pictures... There were MANY similar ones, why this?? SkyPyro used the pictures very well and it is not just pictures... The other one with the nature images is stunning by itself and also contains a lot. The drawings one if my personal best probably, VERY good representation of the lyrics and the artists put a lot into it. Both this one and SkyPyro's one made me cry actually, they are very touching.
Anyways, nothing we can do, I guess... but at least 3 out of 5 were very good. The other 2... I have no idea what they are doing up there with the best.

I was really disappointed in the BAI video, especially when there was that amazing outcry video with all the footage from Egypt.  That was probably the best epic video i found among the entries.
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Offline PetFish

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #79 on: November 27, 2011, 10:04:27 PM »
@lithium
Yeah, I'm not proud of my attitude at all and I'll get over it, but it's how I feel about this winning submission.

You know about particle systems, great, but to the vast majority of us who don't, this video is just a bunch of bubbles floating around.  Do you think the RR judges know what it takes to make that?  Think of it from the viewpoint of "Joe Average"... all he sees are bubbles and that's all he has to go on and that's all *I* have to go on.

As for the others, I see drawings, I see nature video, I see 3D effects, I see relevant images, and I see substance.  I shouldn't need advanced knowledge to see that this took effort to make bubbles.  It's like Dream Theater fans generally know a lot about music and can tell when music is "basic" and doesn't take much effort to create (ie. a 4-minute 4-chord pop song).

The difference between my ranting about bubbles and me getting upset at someone dismissing my video in an earlier post is that I'm trying to explain my reasons, I'm not just saying something like "I saw X videos that were far better than anything submitted".  The BAI live video that was put together from many sources and synced up *probably* took more effort, but the bottom line is, I WANT TO WATCH that video cuz it actually does something.  The BAI that won does nothing but look like a screen saver.  Pretend the song had NO lyrics, would you actually think 13 minutes of bubbles is a good video?  Please.

As for me having coffee with the bubbles creator?  I would say how I feel but obviously not so harshly and I'm assuming we'd be "friends" since we're having coffee and they are asking me for an honest opinion.  They'd ask what I thought and I'd say "You know, don't expect to win cuz I don't see much there that's relevant to the music and I don't think the judges will understand how much effort you put in cuz I doubt they are animation wizards like you.  I just think it has nothing to do with the lyrical content and makes no sense.  You didn't even choose a non-standard font."

I show respect to fellow artists when I see something to respect.  There are many other videos that I think are terrible but they didn't win and that's as it should be.  The fact that this thing actually won over DOZENS of better videos is what the real problem here is.

God I hate being a bitch like this but for whatever reason some nerve has been plucked.
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Offline lithium112

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #80 on: November 27, 2011, 10:47:08 PM »
I get your frustration man. You put a lot of time into making a sweet video and one of the winners is something that's seemingly not nearly as good. But art is multi-dimensional. You can judge it based on the emotion it evokes, or the story it tells, or the message it stands for, but sometimes you can also judge it on the creative process that it took to get it there. For instance, there are moments in DT's music that I enjoy not for their melodic qualities but purely from a technical standpoint. When JP and JR go into a face-melting unison it's not something that I can hum to myself later but I can appreciate the amount of musicianship it took to write, practice and perform that part live.

I get what you mean when you say that you shouldn't need advanced knowledge to appreciate the video but the same applies to music and other art. There have definitely been times when I'm listening to DT or some other more technical band and people's response is "wtf are you listening to?".

Before seeing this video I had some knowledge of particle systems from CS and graphics courses I took but I wasn't familiar with the tools SherryZ used so I found the tutorial video I linked to earlier and saw how much effort it actually takes. So whoever was judging the contest either already had the knowledge or took a similar approach as me, realized that there's a ton of work involved and decided to reward it.

So yeah, to summarize, I'll say that the video is by no means without merit and maybe the fact that it was a bit different from the other submissions helped it win.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #81 on: November 27, 2011, 11:05:01 PM »
I have to side with a lot of people here saying, no matter how many parameters it took to create those bubbles, they were still pretty lame. Let's be honest, any Winamp visualization or Apple screensaver would have had the same effect.
I like the epic landscapes video, that was very nice. Had to wonder about the rights to those sequence though, I hardly imagine the creator of that video flew with his Cessna over Mt. Everest when he heard about the DT competition.

rumborak
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #82 on: November 27, 2011, 11:08:12 PM »
Quote from: iamtheeviltwin on November 27, 2011, 07:28:22 PM
I was really disappointed in the BAI video, especially when there was that amazing outcry video with all the footage from Egypt.  That was probably the best epic video i found among the entries.

Thank you that's mine :) https://youtu.be/cQgHVe17oW0

PetFish you are right but you gotta chill and grasp how unimportant this contest was. RR probably forgot about it for the longest time and suddenly just picked some random videos for winners. Your video is still there for people to watch and appreciate the work.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #83 on: November 27, 2011, 11:16:31 PM »
First of all, on technical merit, particle effects are not hard to do. They're a basic element of graphics, used to form part of something bigger. Sure they look kind of cool, but to sustain it for 12 minutes is lazy and simple. This is not some difficult, pro level thing to do. It is an elementary understanding of a plugin, and used like this doesn't even show mastery of the tool.

And on an artistic level, this shows no interpretation of the variety of ideas and emotions the song is trying to convey. It's monotonous. Using a particle system and sticking words over the top doesn't show that the person really cares about the music.

I agree that the video should not have been chosen.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #84 on: November 27, 2011, 11:41:53 PM »
Quote from: metty on November 27, 2011, 11:08:12 PM
PetFish you are right but you gotta chill and grasp how unimportant this contest was. RR probably forgot about it for the longest time and suddenly just picked some random videos for winners. Your video is still there for people to watch and appreciate the work.

If anyone remembers, the ToT competition was even more haphazard. DT (or management) totally forgot about it, and only when online people were getting grumpy and started complaining did they announce the winners.

rumborak
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Offline PetFish

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #85 on: November 28, 2011, 12:15:03 AM »
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!!!!!!!!

I'm glad I'm not the only one honked-off by that video winning but I gotta relax.  Maybe cuz I haven't had a job in 2 years and I'm bored to death I can focus my dark-side energy more efficiently.

I thought of a way to simplify my feelings on this... if there was an apple pie-baking contest and people used all sorts of apples and techniques to create their entries, but then someone enters a cherry pie instead AND IT WINS, would that be right?  Yes, it took baking skills and knowledge to make it, but it doesn't relate to the contest at all.  That's how it seems to me in this case.

Thanks, metty, I find it hard to believe they said they had 350+ to choose from when only 40 people managed to submit their videos properly.  Maybe they did just throw darts at a board but at the same time I have no problem with most of the winners so I don't know what to think.

Blob, yeah, technical merit of the same thing for 13 minutes?  Come on.  Gimme Outcry with Egypt photos, something that's actually RELEVANT to the lyrics in a LYRIC video?

I need a hug... or more people to enter my artwork contest so I can give away my DT stuff.
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Offline lithium112

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #86 on: November 28, 2011, 01:07:01 AM »
lol alright, I can see I'm in the minority here. To clarify my stance - I was also initially surprised to see this video among the winners and only after reading the video description and looking up some more stuff did I think it was win-worthy. To each their own I guess.
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Offline Mladen

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #87 on: November 28, 2011, 02:32:10 AM »
I just watched a whole bunch of videos, and this one is still my favorite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CeAcTXCLpk
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Offline Implode

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #88 on: November 28, 2011, 12:32:21 PM »
Agreed. I was about to post that.
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Offline bardic_tortoise

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Re: Make a DT Lyric Video Competition (merged)
« Reply #89 on: November 28, 2011, 01:40:21 PM »
Quote from: lithium112 on November 28, 2011, 01:07:01 AM
lol alright, I can see I'm in the minority here.

Maybe the minority, but not alone. Out of the five chosen the blue bubbles BAI was actually my favorite. It was the most purely visually interesting to me. That's art, folks. It's completely subjective.

And I don't see why people think it failed to meet the parameters of the contest. "Make a video with lyrics in it." Check.

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