Are musicians capable of judging their own music?

[KevShmev]

Or are they too close to it to really be able to tell what is really good and maybe what really isn't?

I would say "yes" to an extent, but I just don't like when fans act like the opinion of the musician trumps everything else, like, "The band member thinks this, so it is probably true," or something to that effect.  But when a band releases a new album, it seems like most of them often know what songs the fans like the most and play those.  Then again, you occasionally get something like dredg playing The Tent at every show even though the fanbase seems to despise it, but that seems to be an exception rather than the norm.

Thoughts?

[TAC]

I think it's funny when a band latches onto a song and plays it consistently even though it sucks. Ex: Megadeth's A Tout Le Monde.

They can certainly judge it, as can everyone else. They obviously liked it enough to record and release it.

[Zantera]

Hard to say.
Quality is hard to determine seeing as it's very individual, but there are always songs that are a bit "odd" in a band's catalog, but the band-members love themselves.
When it comes to new albums I'd say the artists have no chance at judging their music, X amount of years after they release an album, they will look back at it with some criticism, but when they made it, it was the best thing ever.
So in terms of new songs and albums, the artists will always say "this is the best thing we've done" pretty much, and it's great that they have confidence, but it's way too early to tell.

Otherwise I think it's hard to say, an artist might dislike a song that everyone likes, because they have some personal experience related to recording or writing the song, which will sorta "taint" it forever.

[black_biff_stadler]

I think most musicians are a tad harsh on their own material. My stance on what I write is that I always strive for it to be something I would like even if I didn't know that it was written by me. Sounds impossible but basically imagine if you had amnesia and could then judge it without episodic subjectivity.

*If that ain't a Meshuggah track title waiting to happen.

[Jamesman42]

^What negro_male-name said.

I am super harsh on my material. People can praise it all day and I'll still not like it. I dunno why, since I made it.

[Heretic]

Yeah, as an artist, I'm always incredibly tough on myself and aren't always satisfied when I've completed things. I'm sure it works similarly with musicians. I mean, sure, lots of musicians complete and album and say "it's the best thing we've ever done!" but I'm certain that to reach the point of thinking that they have to go through a lot.

I'm also sure that musicians look at what fans like and dislike and sometimes go off of that when writing new material, but oftentimes artists just create for themselves and judge their music by what /they/ think, rather than the general public.

[black_biff_stadler]

Yeah, as an artist, I'm always incredibly tough on myself and aren't always satisfied when I've completed things. I'm sure it works similarly with musicians. I mean, sure, lots of musicians complete and album and say "it's the best thing we've ever done!" but I'm certain that to reach the point of thinking that they have to go through a lot.

I'm also sure that musicians look at what fans like and dislike and sometimes go off of that when writing new material, but oftentimes artists just create for themselves and judge their music by what /they/ think, rather than the general public.

Thank god Metallica never pulled that shit.

[rumborak]

It's tough. It's certainly possible to judge the objective aspects of the music one has written. That is, was the delivery good, were the fudged sections etc. My rule is, if I can hear it, somebody else can.
The subjective stuff, very hard. You will like some stuff nobody else likes, and hate stuff people are gaga about.

rumborak

[carl320]

I agree when it comes to some bands producing themselves.  It's hard for someone to trim off excesses of their own music, especially when the song could use a pruning.

[Fluffy Lothario]

Of course they are. But their judgement is subjective, just like anyone's.

[Ben_Jamin]

yes. because music isn't about being good it's about emotion which has a wide range

[ZBomber]

music isn't about being good

yeah fuck good music

[juice]

music isn't about being good

yeah fuck good music

[black_biff_stadler]

 

[hefdaddy42]

yes. because music isn't about being good it's about emotion which has a wide range

what

[BlobVanDam]

Speaking generally for any creative output, you can judge something yourself to a degree. But there will always be at least some degree of personal attachment and investment in the way of being objective (relatively speaking). It's easy to perceive something differently to other people because of your involvement. It can vary how much.
Any good artist should be able to step back from their work once its done, and listen to the feedback of others to gain some perspective on the matter.

[MetalManiac666]

It's hard for someone to trim off excesses of their own music, especially when the song could use a pruning.

Agreed completely.  That being said, artists are more than capable of judging their own work, and are often even harsher than an outside POV would be.

[73109]

I read the first response and flipped shit. A Tout Le Monde is awesome.

[rumborak]

It's hard for someone to trim off excesses of their own music, especially when the song could use a pruning.

Agreed completely.  That being said, artists are more than capable of judging their own work, and are often even harsher than an outside POV would be.

But then there's the notable exceptions where you scratch you head and think "man, in all those weeks/months of writing and recording, the artist(s) never sat back and realized, 'this is just not good'?!"   *uhhmadrenalinemobimlookingatyouhhhmmm*

rumborak

[?]

When it comes to new albums I'd say the artists have no chance at judging their music, X amount of years after they release an album, they will look back at it with some criticism, but when they made it, it was the best thing ever.

I agree, bands always say "this is our best album" when they release a new record, but years later they may say it wasn't that good after all. However, artists may also be very critical of themselves and find many flaws on an album that is considered a classic by fans.

[rumborak]

MP's view of IAW is one of those cases. He says he can't listen to it these days because of the triggered snare. Never bothered me to the slightest.

rumborak

[Fluffy Lothario]

I'm in a similar boat to MP on that one.

[jsem]

I don't mind the triggered snare, but the FII snare sound is so vastly superior it's not even funny.

To the question: Of course they're capable of judging their own music. They have to somehow make a choice of what to put on an album etc, that requires judgement.

[Gorille85]

Some are capable, others aren't.

[jsem]

Some are capable, others aren't.

That doesn't make sense.

Everyone makes SOME judgement. It's not like they feel completely indifferent to their music. They're not going to release something they don't feel is actually good or worthwhile. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with their judgement though.

[missedthepoint]

I think it's funny when a band latches onto a song and plays it consistently even though it sucks. Ex: Megadeth's A Tout Le Monde.

They can certainly judge it, as can everyone else. They obviously liked it enough to record and release it.

Twice. I love the original but not the re recorded version.

MP's view of IAW is one of those cases. He says he can't listen to it these days because of the triggered snare. Never bothered me to the slightest.

rumborak

I'm with you on this, the remixes are just  not the same, mainly due  to the absence of triggered snare.

I think judging your own music objectively is quite a tricky thing. I super critical of anything I do to the point of hampering my ability to continue. I have trouble tearing myself away from thinking things are too generic or too simple. I find that fresh ears help a lot with that but even then i can't help thinking it's just not good enough.
To me this is why having someone to write with is so important. As long as you are honest with each other and don't pull your punches so to speak, you've some objectivity from the start.

[Gorille85]

Some are capable, others aren't.

That doesn't make sense.

Everyone makes SOME judgement. It's not like they feel completely indifferent to their music. They're not going to release something they don't feel is actually good or worthwhile. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with their judgement though.

Some are better than others to guess if a song will be praised or not. Some of them are too close to their art and need an outside opinion. How does that not make sense?

[ariich]

Well seeing as quality is entirely subjective, absolutely yes as I've known plenty of musicians who aren't always happy with their output.

[lateralus88]

But guys music is objective right?

[black_biff_stadler]

Used tick's emote. Reported.

[lateralus88]

Okay.

[Bill Carson]

I think that ultimately the musician has to write and perform music that says something to them. And by doing so there opinion is the only one that matters.
If they think it sounds good to them then, it sounds good. There are some extremely talented musicians on this board who can hear the smallest of glitches. But even something like a timing issue. It may be bad to us but to them, if its the feeling that their after and they like the emotion or the mood of the piece then so be it.
In a perfect world, the fact that they have a fan base should be irrelevant, they have to be true to themselves first, otherwise what's the point of writing music.
The day they start writing music for their fans is the day they have sold themselves out. Because all they are doing is trying to please others.
Yes we can have an opinion but ours is just an opinion, which is what this board is about.

Having said all that...............we don't live in a perfect world and they need the money to sustain their band, so they'd better listen to the fans, otherwise they can get another day job and play in a covers band because they can't afford to be in an original band anymore !!!!

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

My rule is, if I can hear it, somebody else can.

I feel the same way, but I cannot tell you how many times I've told Mrs. Cozmo after a show "Oh, we TOTALLY shit the bed on (insert song name here)."  And she's like "I didn't notice - I think there's a lot of times where you notice wrong things that the average person won't notice."  And if one of the band members' girlfriends noticed it, they would have no qualms about bringing it up amongst themselves.  So if any of them had noticed it, she'd tell me about it.  So yeah, I sometimes wonder if people really ARE hearing what I'm hearing.  Though I have to figure, most people are out drinking, having fun with friends, dancing, or whatever, and not paying hugely close attention to how exactly right on we're playing things.

[kirksnosehair]

It's an interesting question.  I know that I personally like some of my songs better than others, but I think it's really difficult to be 100% objective about the relative quality (or lack thereof) of music I have written.

But it is also true that I knew exactly which track on our album would become the "fan favorite" before it was ever released.