Author Topic: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?  (Read 8716 times)

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Offline rumborak

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I mean, seriously, did anyone in either camp (Dems, GOP) believe they could agree on 1.2 trillion dollars of cutting?

I guess the good news is that defense will see big cuts too.

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Offline MasterShakezula

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2011, 01:58:14 AM »
How are you so sure defense is getting cuts?

Isn't the US government obsessed with the spending of funds on the military? 

(If that is true, though, I say that's a good thing; the immense military budget really needs a downsizing)

Offline rumborak

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2011, 02:09:23 AM »
It's written into the law apparently. I don't know the details, but apparently military will lose a good chunk.

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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2011, 03:37:29 AM »
Apparently they can still undo that portion of the law if they so choose.

And no, there's been numerous other super committee's, basically, and they've all gotten ignored. It's all for show.

Offline lordxizor

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2011, 06:10:05 AM »
The original law saw automatic cuts of $1.2 trillion with half being in defense and the other half in other areas. However, Congress can repeal or change the law, and there's already movement afoot to do that. I would love to see the cuts to defense. I was reading something the other day that said people are saying it would cripple our military, but in reality it will bring spending back to 2007 levels.

And to answer the original question, no I didn't think they would be able to compromise on anything. I don't think the Democrats and Republicans could even agree on what to have for lunch these days.

Offline Tick

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2011, 06:21:15 AM »
I hate fucking politicians! A bunch of arrogant assholes filled with stubborn pride that couldn't give two shits about the country they think they are serving. Fuck um all!
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Offline MasterShakezula

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2011, 06:31:29 AM »
Much of the time, I bet the Repubs and Dems just manufacture "bipartisanism" to give the illusion to the parties' demographics that each one is out to better their respective demographic, when in actuality, they both are simply 2 marketing groups for the sake of being able to gain the greatest possible # of votes for tools paid of to make policies paying off corporations. 

Offline Tick

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2011, 06:40:46 AM »
Much of the time, I bet the Repubs and Dems just manufacture "bipartisanism" to give the illusion to the parties' demographics that each one is out to better their respective demographic, when in actuality, they both are simply 2 marketing groups for the sake of being able to gain the greatest possible # of votes for tools paid of to make policies paying off corporations.
You are correct.
Here is reality. You have two groups that wear two different masks to appeal to the two biggest factions of all people. You have the so called, "anything goes" party, and the so called party of "morality". They are both full of shit, so whether you're for gay marriage, or you are pro life, the group you think represents you is a facade. They don't give a rats ass about you. They both have an agenda that obviously has they're and not you're best interest at heart.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2011, 07:07:22 AM »
...Anyway, yes, these military cuts were sorely needed. Anyone who says we're crippling our military hasn't taken a good look at the military and technological power harnessed by the DoD these days. If you compare our air force to, say, that of China, we're not only ahead of them, we're ahead of them technologically by two full generations of fighter technology. We spend more on defense than the next 43 countries combined. We have enough nukes to destroy an entire hemisphere of the planet. I think we'll be OK.
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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2011, 07:38:54 AM »
I mean, seriously, did anyone in either camp (Dems, GOP) believe they could agree on 1.2 trillion dollars of cutting?

I guess the good news is that defense will see big cuts too.

rumborak

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Offline ddtonfire

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2011, 07:56:59 AM »
I really think that each party is worse than the other.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2011, 08:13:50 AM »
The most laughable part of it all is that over the 10 year period they were trying to cut 1.2 Trillion dollars from....the United States is scheduled to spend 44 Trillion dollars! This entire 'Super Committee' dog and pony show was a joke anyway....really...cut 1.2 Trillion dollars from 44 Trillion. What's the F'n point? Even if they would have come to an agreement it would have been of no consequence or meaning...it'd had been a BS project here and there or whatever. If you're going to truly dig in and cut then cut something like 15 or 20 Trillion, that's a cut. The suggestion that cutting 1.2 Trillion would have made some sort of difference is an insult actually but I expect nothing less from these Crooks that are controlling our country...both (R) and (D). ALL crooks....ALL useless. Absolutiely fed up with and sick and tired of Politicians PERIOD.
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Offline Tick

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2011, 08:22:23 AM »
The most laughable part of it all is that over the 10 year period they were trying to cut 1.2 Trillion dollars from....the United States is scheduled to spend 44 Trillion dollars! This entire 'Super Committee' dog and pony show was a joke anyway....really...cut 1.2 Trillion dollars from 44 Trillion. What's the F'n point? Even if they would have come to an agreement it would have been of no consequence or meaning...it'd had been a BS project here and there or whatever. If you're going to truly dig in and cut then cut something like 15 or 20 Trillion, that's a cut. The suggestion that cutting 1.2 Trillion would have made some sort of difference is an insult actually but I expect nothing less from these Crooks that are controlling our country...both (R) and (D). ALL crooks....ALL useless. Absolutiely fed up with and sick and tired of Politicians PERIOD.
Well said!
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2011, 08:33:17 AM »
Wow,  strange for me to be the optimist.  I thought they would get it done.  I liked how the compromise bill was set up a few months ago, with the automatic cuts to entitlements and defense spending.  It was a good approach,  and now reasonable consequences will kick in; ones that they couldn't agree on 4 months ago,  but now have no choice in.   

Obama has made it crystal clear that he'll veto any legislation to alter the automatic cuts,  and rightfully so. 
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2011, 11:35:28 AM »
Wow,  strange for me to be the optimist.  I thought they would get it done.  I liked how the compromise bill was set up a few months ago, with the automatic cuts to entitlements and defense spending.  It was a good approach,  and now reasonable consequences will kick in; ones that they couldn't agree on 4 months ago,  but now have no choice in.   

Obama has made it crystal clear that he'll veto any legislation to alter the automatic cuts,  and rightfully so.

What do you mean? In terms of balancing the budget or what?
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2011, 12:30:04 PM »
It's written into the law apparently. I don't know the details, but apparently military will lose a good chunk.

rumborak

Details

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2011, 12:30:52 PM »
Wow,  strange for me to be the optimist.  I thought they would get it done.

Grover Norquist had other plans

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2011, 12:33:22 PM »
The most laughable part of it all is that over the 10 year period they were trying to cut 1.2 Trillion dollars from....the United States is scheduled to spend 44 Trillion dollars! This entire 'Super Committee' dog and pony show was a joke anyway....really...cut 1.2 Trillion dollars from 44 Trillion. What's the F'n point? Even if they would have come to an agreement it would have been of no consequence or meaning...it'd had been a BS project here and there or whatever. If you're going to truly dig in and cut then cut something like 15 or 20 Trillion, that's a cut. The suggestion that cutting 1.2 Trillion would have made some sort of difference is an insult actually but I expect nothing less from these Crooks that are controlling our country...both (R) and (D). ALL crooks....ALL useless. Absolutiely fed up with and sick and tired of Politicians PERIOD.
Well said!

I dont think it is well said.  Cutting half the budget immediately isnt really realistic.  Cutting 10% is a realistic and attainable goal to start.
Oh shit, you're right!

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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2011, 12:47:32 PM »
Yeah, I get the anger, but it would literally be impossible to cut much more than the targeted amounts that the sequestration clause in the supercommitte legislation calls for.

Offline Tick

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2011, 12:59:37 PM »
The most laughable part of it all is that over the 10 year period they were trying to cut 1.2 Trillion dollars from....the United States is scheduled to spend 44 Trillion dollars! This entire 'Super Committee' dog and pony show was a joke anyway....really...cut 1.2 Trillion dollars from 44 Trillion. What's the F'n point? Even if they would have come to an agreement it would have been of no consequence or meaning...it'd had been a BS project here and there or whatever. If you're going to truly dig in and cut then cut something like 15 or 20 Trillion, that's a cut. The suggestion that cutting 1.2 Trillion would have made some sort of difference is an insult actually but I expect nothing less from these Crooks that are controlling our country...both (R) and (D). ALL crooks....ALL useless. Absolutiely fed up with and sick and tired of Politicians PERIOD.
Well said!

I dont think it is well said. 

Well, I do.
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2011, 01:14:08 PM »
I'll admit I haven't followed this closely but this is what I feel will happen: No way in hell the automatic cuts to defense will kick it. Democrats will "give in" to the Republicans demands at the zero hour and it will be hailed as a "great compromise."

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2011, 01:15:45 PM »
The most laughable part of it all is that over the 10 year period they were trying to cut 1.2 Trillion dollars from....the United States is scheduled to spend 44 Trillion dollars! This entire 'Super Committee' dog and pony show was a joke anyway....really...cut 1.2 Trillion dollars from 44 Trillion. What's the F'n point? Even if they would have come to an agreement it would have been of no consequence or meaning...it'd had been a BS project here and there or whatever. If you're going to truly dig in and cut then cut something like 15 or 20 Trillion, that's a cut. The suggestion that cutting 1.2 Trillion would have made some sort of difference is an insult actually but I expect nothing less from these Crooks that are controlling our country...both (R) and (D). ALL crooks....ALL useless. Absolutiely fed up with and sick and tired of Politicians PERIOD.
Well said!

I dont think it is well said. 

Well, I do.

But it's not practical or realistic and anyone who knows anything about how an economy of this size works would have to agree that you can't cut that much.  Even 10% is pushing it quite a bit and that will be felt far and wide.





Offline Tick

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2011, 01:17:40 PM »
The most laughable part of it all is that over the 10 year period they were trying to cut 1.2 Trillion dollars from....the United States is scheduled to spend 44 Trillion dollars! This entire 'Super Committee' dog and pony show was a joke anyway....really...cut 1.2 Trillion dollars from 44 Trillion. What's the F'n point? Even if they would have come to an agreement it would have been of no consequence or meaning...it'd had been a BS project here and there or whatever. If you're going to truly dig in and cut then cut something like 15 or 20 Trillion, that's a cut. The suggestion that cutting 1.2 Trillion would have made some sort of difference is an insult actually but I expect nothing less from these Crooks that are controlling our country...both (R) and (D). ALL crooks....ALL useless. Absolutiely fed up with and sick and tired of Politicians PERIOD.
Well said!

I dont think it is well said. 

Well, I do.

But it's not practical or realistic and anyone who knows anything about how an economy of this size works would have to agree that you can't cut that much.  Even 10% is pushing it quite a bit and that will be felt far and wide.
I know, I just said that to fuck with Eric. :biggrin: It would be nice if were weren't eternally fucked.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2011, 01:18:18 PM »
 :lol   Well, alrighty then  :lol

Offline El Barto

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2011, 01:19:16 PM »
I'll admit I haven't followed this closely but this is what I feel will happen: No way in hell the automatic cuts to defense will kick it. Democrats will "give in" to the Republicans demands at the zero hour and it will be hailed as a "great compromise."
I don't think so.  This was crafted as sort of a MAD strategy.  Both sides lose bigtime if it didn't get done.  If you let them off the mat,  then you've really caved monumentally.  I don't think Obama would have any choice but to veto any attempt to undo the deterrent. 



The most laughable part of it all is that over the 10 year period they were trying to cut 1.2 Trillion dollars from....the United States is scheduled to spend 44 Trillion dollars! This entire 'Super Committee' dog and pony show was a joke anyway....really...cut 1.2 Trillion dollars from 44 Trillion. What's the F'n point? Even if they would have come to an agreement it would have been of no consequence or meaning...it'd had been a BS project here and there or whatever. If you're going to truly dig in and cut then cut something like 15 or 20 Trillion, that's a cut. The suggestion that cutting 1.2 Trillion would have made some sort of difference is an insult actually but I expect nothing less from these Crooks that are controlling our country...both (R) and (D). ALL crooks....ALL useless. Absolutiely fed up with and sick and tired of Politicians PERIOD.
Well said!

I dont think it is well said.  Cutting half the budget immediately isnt really realistic.  Cutting 10% is a realistic and attainable goal to start.
Plus,  as I understand it,  they're not trying to cut overall spending as much as they're trying to lessen deficit spending.  You can't weigh the 1.2 trillion against the entire budget.  You have to weigh it against only the amount that's unfunded.
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2011, 01:25:24 PM »
I'll admit I haven't followed this closely but this is what I feel will happen: No way in hell the automatic cuts to defense will kick it. Democrats will "give in" to the Republicans demands at the zero hour and it will be hailed as a "great compromise."
I don't think so.  This was crafted as sort of a MAD strategy.  Both sides lose bigtime if it didn't get done.  If you let them off the mat,  then you've really caved monumentally.  I don't think Obama would have any choice but to veto any attempt to undo the deterrent. 


This is what I get for not reading up on things before commenting. I didn't realize the Supercommittee announced it failed to reach a deal, and that negotiations were ending. I am surprised, actually. Figured the Dems would acquiesce as usual. I'll be impressed if the President sticks to his guns and vetoes legislation designed to remove the automatic cuts, especially since his boy Panetta said cutting defense at all would trigger a "doomsday" scenario :lol

Offline rumborak

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2011, 01:27:28 PM »
At the people here who think the automatic cut law will be revoked by Congress, I think this time actually not. The consequences could be very dire in terms of market perception and credit rating because it would cement in the fact that the US government is incapable of tackling its problems.

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Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2011, 01:28:12 PM »
We could cut the defense budget if we ended our wars.  I don't think we should cut the defense budget in ways that would put troops in danger or make them under equipped.  And I strongly believe we shouldn't cut the budget for Research and Development for the military.  Staying ahead of all other countries in military technology is really important for maintaining security.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2011, 01:30:06 PM »
Well, maybe the budget should be shrunk to a point where it stretches the limit of the military to wage one war. Right now it's in the position to wage multiple wars, and still have spares.

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Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2011, 01:43:06 PM »
Well, maybe the budget should be shrunk to a point where it stretches the limit of the military to wage one war. Right now it's in the position to wage multiple wars, and still have spares.

rumborak

I don't really think the military has the budget for these wars currently.  I think we are over budget and are just racking up debt.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2011, 01:55:30 PM »
At the people here who think the automatic cut law will be revoked by Congress, I think this time actually not. The consequences could be very dire in terms of market perception and credit rating because it would cement in the fact that the US government is incapable of tackling its problems.

rumborak

I think we crossed that bridge a long time ago.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2011, 02:32:45 PM »
Our military was designed around the notion of fighting two separate wars.  Actually,  it seems to have served pretty well in that capacity.  I suspect that strategy will be one of the things to get the axe.

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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2011, 02:33:11 PM »
We could cut the defense budget if we ended our wars.  I don't think we should cut the defense budget in ways that would put troops in danger or make them under equipped.  And I strongly believe we shouldn't cut the budget for Research and Development for the military.  Staying ahead of all other countries in military technology is really important for maintaining security.

To the first, good thing we'll be finished with them this January. ;)

To the second, see what I said above. We'll probably be okay for another few decades, and even then it won't be hard to regain our ground.
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Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2011, 02:58:06 PM »
We could cut the defense budget if we ended our wars.  I don't think we should cut the defense budget in ways that would put troops in danger or make them under equipped.  And I strongly believe we shouldn't cut the budget for Research and Development for the military.  Staying ahead of all other countries in military technology is really important for maintaining security.

To the first, good thing we'll be finished with them this January. ;)

To the second, see what I said above. We'll probably be okay for another few decades, and even then it won't be hard to regain our ground.

I don't agree at all that we can slow down our research and be ok for decades.  The stuff the military develops and invents in terms of not only just technology, but also tactics, saves lives and gets the job done faster.  It cements our security in the world.  It is the reason our enemies really can't do much against us.  It keeps us safe passively as well as actively.

Also, the way I see it, is green technologies will most likely be incorporated into the army first.  If they can find a way to make it work for them, they will do it.  Then that stuff will eventually make its way into the civilian market.  I'm sure the army would absolutely love to have a fuel source that is not oil.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Did anyone really think that "super-committee" would get anything done?
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2011, 03:31:04 PM »
We could cut the defense budget if we ended our wars.  I don't think we should cut the defense budget in ways that would put troops in danger or make them under equipped.  And I strongly believe we shouldn't cut the budget for Research and Development for the military.  Staying ahead of all other countries in military technology is really important for maintaining security.

To the first, good thing we'll be finished with them this January. ;)

To the second, see what I said above. We'll probably be okay for another few decades, and even then it won't be hard to regain our ground.

I don't agree at all that we can slow down our research and be ok for decades.  The stuff the military develops and invents in terms of not only just technology, but also tactics, saves lives and gets the job done faster.  It cements our security in the world.  It is the reason our enemies really can't do much against us.  It keeps us safe passively as well as actively.

Also, the way I see it, is green technologies will most likely be incorporated into the army first.  If they can find a way to make it work for them, they will do it.  Then that stuff will eventually make its way into the civilian market.  I'm sure the army would absolutely love to have a fuel source that is not oil.

That's already started, last I checked as of late May this year. Not that it's been fully implemented, but the procurement has begun as of this past May. And the stuff has already made its way into the civilian market, albeit less so as fuel and moreso as straight-up power generation for like homes 'n' shit. The real irony of Solyndra: it failed because the solar market grew faster than the company could afford to compete with.

And like I said earlier in the thread, we most likely can afford to slow down research, because as I said, we're not only a generation ahead of most countries including our allies, we tend to be a generation and then another generation ahead of most of our potential enemies (not that I consider China an enemy, but some do).
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude: