Would Dream Theater Have....

[KevShmev]

Think of DT like a sandwich: ADTOE is now like the perfect sandwich again, and while Portnoy was a big part of the sandwich being so good for so long, he started adding spices in recent years that made it not taste quite as good as it should or could.  Sure, it still tasted good, and you still ate it, but now those spices have been eradicated from the sandwich, and the overall taste is that much better again.  It's like, "Okay, this is what this sandwich should taste like!"

[FlyingBIZKIT]

it was time for a change.

[theseoafs]

I don't think a passive person would be able to tell MP that they were heading into the studio with or without him.

We also mustn't forget that Day After Day would've sounded much different if JP were passive.

[The Letter M]

Oh, that was for Neal Morse' own solo tour? Good thing Neal Morse also has like five songs.






Neal Morse actually has more than five songs.

Well, if you count most of his albums as one "song" because they're all concept albums of some sort (Testimony, One, ?, Sola Scriptura, Testimony 2), you could say he has only "five songs"...



-Marc.

Each Testimony album is really groups of tracks as part of one song, so like T2 has 3 songs (not counting the 2nd disc), and T1 has 5(?). "?" is obviously one song, but albums like One, SS, or Lifeline, are clearly made of individual songs (SS is more like a suite).

I know, I was just joking, hence the

One and Lifeline are definitely more a collection of songs, although the former is more conceptual over-all than the latter, and Sola Scriptura is a suite in the same sense that TA's Bridge Across Forever is a suite, with repeating themes and motifs and movements.

And Testimony (as a whole, both 1 and 2) is a collection of 8 Parts, all made up of smaller songs/movements in each part, so it's really 8 "songs" as Parts of the story.

-Marc.

[Orbert]

Let me just add one little tidbit on the "passive" issue.  I think John P. comes across in interviews and videos as a happy-go-lucky, laid back, kind of guy.  But having sat down with him and discussed the business side of things a bit, it became very obvious to me very quickly that he is anything but passive.  He is a very strong personality--he just isn't "in your face about it."  He may choose to keep silent at times and take the path of least resistance when he believes that is the best outcome for everyone involved.  But after talking with him for quite awhile, I would never use the term "passive" to describe him.  I can see why people might think he was, but I think it's a mistake to assume that. 

That's my impression of JP as well, though I only have videos and interviews to base it on.  He seems more of a guy to choose his battles.  Set lists aren't a huge deal, sure, let Mike do those if it makes him happy.  Various things regarding the arrangements and how certain licks are played, well, it's a collaborative process.  Mike just seems so much more intense about everything that everything is a battle.  Well, not always a battle, but he has definite ideas how things should be and is willing to push on all of them.  JP lets things go if it means that overall everyone's happier.  That's not being passive; that's being selective and smart.

[Tick]

The thing is, even if MP was pushing for something else, there are still 4 other guys in the band that could have said they didn't like it and try to create something different. It's like MP was an evil terrifying guy in the studio.

I just think the other 4 are passive and Mike is a control freak. It seems he usually gets his way. Hell, he wrote Neal Morse's US Tour set list for him based on what he wanted to play! That tells you all you need to know.
Mike=control.

To be fair, Transatlantic has like five songs total.

No, not really. and I never said Transatlantic did I?
 Mike made the set lists for Neal Morse's US solo tour. and Neil has a bunch of albums so my point still stands.

[Tick]

The thing is, even if MP was pushing for something else, there are still 4 other guys in the band that could have said they didn't like it and try to create something different. It's like MP was an evil terrifying guy in the studio.

I just think the other 4 are passive and Mike is a control freak. It seems he usually gets his way. Hell, he wrote Neal Morse's US Tour set list for him based on what he wanted to play! That tells you all you need to know.
Mike=control.

To be fair, Transatlantic has like five songs total.

Don't think he meant TA, but Neal's recent US tour for Testimony 2, and to think on it more, the songs were very either very heavy ("Leviathan" and the Sola Scriptura medley) or very long ("Lifeline", "Seeds Of Gold" and the T1-Part 5 section), and many of them feature Mike on some short solo spots with exposed fills.

And I agree, if Neal didn't like the set list, he would have said something, but it's possible Neal is just as passive as the guys in DT were with Mike, so Neal may have just let him have that one.

-Marc.

You all understand the point I was making. You want to say Mike isn't a control freak? You'd be wrong.
and Neal loves Mike and obviously didn't care if he made the set list or he wouldn't have let him.

[Tick]

I don't think a passive person would be able to tell MP that they were heading into the studio with or without him.

Point, set, match.

Not really. I mean passive in the sense they allowed Mike to do pretty much as much as he wished for the most part. I never said they were spineless. Obviously, they cut him loose so that isn't the case.
Mike was the workhorse of the band and they were ok with it. If you don't like the term "passive" use something else but that's my point.

[gmillerdrake]

I don't think ADTOE would sound like it does with MP still in the band. He admitted in a recent interview that he had no desire to ever return to their past sound...he always wanted DT to keep evolving in sound while keeping thier identity. To me that meant he would have aggressively pushed to keep DT on that 'heavy' track.
  SC and BC&SL had (IMO) had a couple good songs (ITPOE and TCOT) all others to me were just...whatever. Cool parts here and there but I am/was not a fan of the heavy DT. I couldn't be more pleased with what ADTOE gives us, I love the sound and am not an audiophile so I could care less about the mix...blah..blah. MP's drums were always out front and I rather enjoy a more balanced sound like we were given here.
  I think it has been mentioned already and is easily noticed that the DT guys are way more laid back and happy at the moment. It was no secret how MP 'ran' DT...and it worked for quite some time. If some of those guys didn't like it maybe they should have spoken up sooner but all in all it seems to me that MP's desire to mandate a break was a 'straw that broke the camels back' type deal.
  I love MP's drumming, I think it is incredible some of the stuff he does. But I also really like what MM brings to DT...I think his drum parts fit perfectly and once they enter the studio to record their second album with MM at the helm I'd be willing to bet that there next effort is even better. Having all the touring experience and getting the feel for one another is only going to improve DT.
  Both camps are doing thier own things and it looks like all parties involved are happy so let that be that. 

[Aythesryche]

Whether or not the album would have been good and bad is all subjective and I think that's not the right question. For one reason, it's the wrong question because you have the same small handful of people voting yes or no on this forum and it sort of invalidates the poll altogether. There's no real overall census and perspective. If Mike Portnoy was still in the band, the album would be drastically different. Sure, there might have been a few of the same or similar riffs throughout the album, but it would have certainly been a lot different. This is due to the fact that JP, JM and JR all said in one way or another they felt refreshed/renewed after Mike Mangini came aboard. Sure, there are other reason, however, this alone inspires people to do things differently from how they would have done if things were the same. Having such a drastic change woke up certain parts of their minds that haven't been explored in quite a long time. It's brain math!

So, my answer to the modified question would be yes. Yes, the album would have been incredibly different if Mike Portnoy was still in the band. Anyone that disagrees with me is wrong.

[Jamariquay]

No, not really. and I never said Transatlantic did I?
 Mike made the set lists for Neal Morse's US solo tour. and Neil has a bunch of albums so my point still stands.

Indeed.

[Dublagent66]

I think they would've made a better album if they had taken a break like MP suggested.  I don't know what to make of this new material.  It has no identity and as far as I'm concerned, it's just hanging out there in no man's land.  Like someone had said before in other thread, certain songs have moments but they are few and far between.  Like I've said before, the album was rushed with a sense urgency and something to prove.  They should've taken more time to think about what to do instead of jumping headlong into the project.

[Perpetual Change]

Yeah, I don't think JP is passive at all. Not commenting on something =/= passive. Mike P's behavior seems to be slightly more on the passive/aggressive side, with all the strange facebook "likes" and hit-and-run side-comments and whatnot.

To answer the question, I don't think DT would have produced an album as good as ADTOE with Mike P. In fact, Mike's been pretty clear that he's not a fan the record. I think it would have had that slightly more "rushed" feel that the last four Dream Theater records have had, and it would have certainly included Mike Portnoy's harsher vocals and more of his thrash metal influences. Since I'm not a fan of any of those things, I think there's no way I'd have liked the album they would have written with Mike P in as much.

Then again, if DT had indeed taken a hiatus, it would have given the members even more time to focus on writing, and we might have wound up with a double-album or concept album that instantly would have become a DT "classic", which I'm still not sure if ADTOE is. Right now, I'd rank it at 5th, with a pretty decent jump in quality to it from what I consider DT's "perfect" albums: SDOIT, SFAM, Awake, and IaW.

So I tend to agree with Kev. It would have been good, just not great.

[Tick]

Ok, let me change passive to non confrontational. I don't think they wanted to battle Mike all that much so they let him pretty much do his thing in a lot of cases. I think its safe to say Mike likes to control his world. I played in a band where the drummer actually looked and kind of mirrored Mike. He made the set lists, booked the gigs. Planned the stage props. Pretty much controlled everything, and we kind of just went with it because he liked doing the lions share of the work, and it made it easy on the rest of us in so many ways.