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Offline William Wallace

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Why young people leave church
« on: November 11, 2011, 11:40:51 AM »
https://www.barna.org/teens-next-gen-articles/528-six-reasons-young-christians-leave-church

It's long, but here's the gist. Has this been anybody's experience?

Quote
Reason #1 – Churches seem overprotective.
A few of the defining characteristics of today's teens and young adults are their unprecedented access to ideas and worldviews as well as their prodigious consumption of popular culture. As Christians, they express the desire for their faith in Christ to connect to the world they live in. However, much of their experience of Christianity feels stifling, fear-based and risk-averse. One-quarter of 18- to 29-year-olds said “Christians demonize everything outside of the church” (23% indicated this “completely” or “mostly” describes their experience). Other perceptions in this category include “church ignoring the problems of the real world” (22%) and “my church is too concerned that movies, music, and video games are harmful” (18%).

Reason #2 – Teens’ and twentysomethings’ experience of Christianity is shallow.
A second reason that young people depart church as young adults is that something is lacking in their experience of church. One-third said “church is boring” (31%). One-quarter of these young adults said that “faith is not relevant to my career or interests” (24%) or that “the Bible is not taught clearly or often enough” (23%). Sadly, one-fifth of these young adults who attended a church as a teenager said that “God seems missing from my experience of church” (20%).

Reason #3 – Churches come across as antagonistic to science.
One of the reasons young adults feel disconnected from church or from faith is the tension they feel between Christianity and science. The most common of the perceptions in this arena is “Christians are too confident they know all the answers” (35%). Three out of ten young adults with a Christian background feel that “churches are out of step with the scientific world we live in” (29%). Another one-quarter embrace the perception that “Christianity is anti-science” (25%). And nearly the same proportion (23%) said they have “been turned off by the creation-versus-evolution debate.” Furthermore, the research shows that many science-minded young Christians are struggling to find ways of staying faithful to their beliefs and to their professional calling in science-related industries.

Reason #4 – Young Christians’ church experiences related to sexuality are often simplistic, judgmental.
With unfettered access to digital pornography and immersed in a culture that values hyper-sexuality over wholeness, teen and twentysometing Christians are struggling with how to live meaningful lives in terms of sex and sexuality. One of the significant tensions for many young believers is how to live up to the church's expectations of chastity and sexual purity in this culture, especially as the age of first marriage is now commonly delayed to the late twenties. Research indicates that most young Christians are as sexually active as their non-Christian peers, even though they are more conservative in their attitudes about sexuality. One-sixth of young Christians (17%) said they “have made mistakes and feel judged in church because of them.” The issue of sexuality is particularly salient among 18- to 29-year-old Catholics, among whom two out of five (40%) said the church’s “teachings on sexuality and birth control are out of date.”

Reason #5 – They wrestle with the exclusive nature of Christianity.
Younger Americans have been shaped by a culture that esteems open-mindedness, tolerance and acceptance. Today’s youth and young adults also are the most eclectic generation in American history in terms of race, ethnicity, sexuality, religion, technological tools and sources of authority. Most young adults want to find areas of common ground with each other, sometimes even if that means glossing over real differences. Three out of ten young Christians (29%) said “churches are afraid of the beliefs of other faiths” and an identical proportion felt they are “forced to choose between my faith and my friends.” One-fifth of young adults with a Christian background said “church is like a country club, only for insiders” (22%).

Reason #6 – The church feels unfriendly to those who doubt.
Young adults with Christian experience say the church is not a place that allows them to express doubts. They do not feel safe admitting that sometimes Christianity does not make sense. In addition, many feel that the church’s response to doubt is trivial. Some of the perceptions in this regard include not being able “to ask my most pressing life questions in church” (36%) and having “significant intellectual doubts about my faith” (23%). In a related theme of how churches struggle to help young adults who feel marginalized, about one out of every six young adults with a Christian background said their faith “does not help with depression or other emotional problems” they experience (18%).

Offline livehard

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2011, 11:59:28 AM »
I think also that young people leave beacuse they don't understand what is real and what is just a story.  I was raised Catholic and am still confused about which events are believed to have actually happened.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2011, 12:20:17 PM »
I think also that young people leave beacuse they don't understand what is real and what is just a story.  I was raised Catholic and am still confused about which events are believed to have actually happened.

I can sympathize.  I was also raised Catholic and had a similar experience.  It wasn't until my 20's that I began to understand what was truth and what isn't.


WW, as for the original post, I see what you are saying, and I understand the points being made, but where there is solid teaching, young people generally don't leave, from what I've observed.  They grow up knowing what they believe, why they believe it, and how to defend it.
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Online Chino

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2011, 12:27:22 PM »
I left the church because I started thinking.

Offline Fuzzboy

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2011, 12:41:53 PM »
I stopped going to church because Christianity/Catholicism doesn't make any sense to me and I'd rather be home sleeping/playing xbox because church is about as fun as watching a tree grow.
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Offline PraXis

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2011, 12:48:05 PM »
I think also that young people leave beacuse they don't understand what is real and what is just a story.  I was raised Catholic and am still confused about which events are believed to have actually happened.

I'm in a similar boat, but I go to mass almost weekly, mainly because my 85 year old great aunt doesn't have a ride otherwise. I couldn't say no to that request, family is family. The one thing the pastor has been talking about for the last year (almost weekly) is the lack of youth and overall attendance.

Offline William Wallace

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2011, 01:00:54 PM »

WW, as for the original post, I see what you are saying, and I understand the points being made, but where there is solid teaching, young people generally don't leave, from what I've observed.  They grow up knowing what they believe, why they believe it, and how to defend it.
Yep. That's what's lacking most in churches, and I seen it in almost every church I've ever attended.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2011, 01:28:02 PM »

WW, as for the original post, I see what you are saying, and I understand the points being made, but where there is solid teaching, young people generally don't leave, from what I've observed.  They grow up knowing what they believe, why they believe it, and how to defend it.
Yep. That's what's lacking most in churches, and I seen it in almost every church I've ever attended.

Not matter the belief system, people just seem to have an innate desire to (1) sleepwalk through their faith rather than think about it critically, grapple with it, test it, and own it; and/or (2) substitute things that seem more attractive for foundational truths.  Both lead people away from correct beliefs (which is one of the reasons why, again, I had to leave the Catholic church), and Jesus railed against both problems constantly.
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Offline the Catfishman

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2011, 01:50:19 PM »
I think one of the most important reasons is that it has become much more socially acceptable to leave the church, or at least that's what I've experienced here (in dirty liberal Europe / the Netherlands). For the generations before me it was much more set from the beginning to which cultural religion group you belonged and that's hardly the case anymore, there is a dutch word for it 'ontzuiling' but I can't really find a good translation for it. Before the 60s/70s the specific religious sub-group you belonged to determined which news paper you read, which schools you went to, which tv channels you watched... etc..  which of course impaired social interaction outside your group a lot.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2011, 05:15:20 PM »
I think the OP is pretty good and corresponds to many of the reasons of rejection I had way back when.
And yeah, the lack of young people in churches is happening everywhere. And maybe there isn't much point in trying to stop that. My personal impression has been that the only difference between now and 100 years back is that the fake believers are now socially allowed to stay away from church (as Catfishman pointed out, that didn't used to be the case). What is better, a church that is chock full of fake believers, or one that only has the fervent ones?

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Offline tofee35

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2011, 05:49:55 PM »
I think the main reason is that the act of going to church can be very boring as a young child. Then, once high school or college hits, the Liberal views and Scientific theories become very interesting and alluring to a young mind. The combination of those 2 elements definitely play a role in young people leaving the Church.

A side story in case some of you care or want to know where my opinion comes from: I grew up Catholic, but the church services were difficult to follow and not taken seriously at CCD classes. Then in college, I read a few Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris books that swayed me away from the Church even more. My Mother said "you read books about not believing in God, but have you ever read the Bible?" I hadn't, so I did. Once I studied it and put its beliefs into the context in which it was written, it made total sense. It wasn't easy. My mother passed away before I re-found my faith, but something about her passing was very spiritual in a way that I can't explain. That also wasn't easy. Both reading the Bible and my Ma passing brought me back to Christianity after I was one of the children that left the Church. I found a non-denominational Christian Church to go to that's fun and focused on the Grace of God. It's enjoyable and I'm comfortable in my faith now. You wouldn't know that at all from talking to or even knowing me well. It's all about striving to be a better person every day. I love that.

Online Jamesman42

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2011, 06:02:54 PM »
Sometimes people aren't given much of a choice as to what they're brought up to believe. And then they see more options once they've had enough education (ages vary with this point) and make decisions based on what they know and what they feel is right based on the consequences of their choice (eternal life/damnation or a life more free to do whatever/nothing after death/reincarnation/etc.).

Also, some people see the hypocrisy in the churches and how it makes people and that turns them away from being actively involved or even leaving the faith. I can say that is true about me, though it was somewhat gradual and I had stopped going to the "main services" for years, just going to young adult groups every week.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2011, 06:38:54 PM »
Quote
Reason #1 – Churches seem overprotective.

Moreso my parents, but yeah. That was one.


Quote
Reason #3 – Churches come across as antagonistic to science.
[/b]

That was definitely another, since I was somewhat passionate about bio, especially genetics and evolution, in HS.

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Reason #6 – The church feels unfriendly to those who doubt.

And that was the biggest one, by far.


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I can sympathize.  I was also raised Catholic and had a similar experience.  It wasn't until my 20's that I began to understand what was truth and what isn't.

Can you give me some examples of where the Catholic Church just interprets scripture completely wrong? I can see the issues with not accepting the heirarchy, but I don't see what the other issues are.

Quote
where there is solid teaching, young people generally don't leave, from what I've observed.  They grow up knowing what they believe, why they believe it, and how to defend it.

Depends on your view of "solid teaching". In my view, "solid teaching" is one that is encouraging and accommodating to people who are going through natural periods of doubt and/or frustration with Christianity. Is that what you mean, or something else?

Offline William Wallace

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2011, 07:31:48 PM »
Related to the point about doubt, I've often run into the inability of churches to deal with or care about it. All things historical and theological are uninteresting unless they relate to making the congregation feel better about themselves - "Fighting depression God's way," and so forth. In deeper study of the Bible I found a way to reinforce my faith, but few Christians seem to share that interest. Incredibly annoying. That often leads to the examples of people with doubts and legitimate questions being ignored by the very people who should care the most.

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2011, 09:47:03 AM »
Regarding young people going to church:

I live in the bible belt, and over the course of the past year my girlfriend has taken me to three churches across the state, and not only were there almost no young people there, but most of the people there were older adults.

On Facebook, I probably have around 450 young "friends", and of those, I can literally only think of ten who actually go to church.

Not saying this is indicative of how it is everywhere. Absolutely not. But it's interesting, I think.
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Offline orcus116

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2011, 09:59:09 AM »
I stopped going to church because Christianity/Catholicism doesn't make any sense to me and I'd rather be home sleeping/playing xbox because church is about as fun as watching a tree grow.

Definitely this. Church felt like a chore.

Offline ehra

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2011, 10:01:09 AM »
I see no reason to spend an hour every weekend in a church full of old people that don't like my hair when I already get plenty of valid theological leaning/debate on forums like here.

Online Jamesman42

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2011, 10:18:03 AM »
I stopped going to church because Christianity/Catholicism doesn't make any sense to me and I'd rather be home sleeping/playing xbox because church is about as fun as watching a tree grow.

Definitely this. Church felt like a chore.

But lunch afterward tasted sooooooooooooooooo good!

Offline rumborak

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2011, 01:52:00 PM »
I stopped going to church because Christianity/Catholicism doesn't make any sense to me and I'd rather be home sleeping/playing xbox because church is about as fun as watching a tree grow.

Definitely this. Church felt like a chore.

Same here of course. Thing was also, this trend of young people not going to church (at least in Germany) was in full blow when I was growing up in the 80s, and the priests were trying to "engage the youth". Only, the priests were so removed from the youth (not surprisingly, if you've never had kids yourself) that all they did was to rant on stuff like "Rambo" (and I vividly remember the priest hilariously mispronouncing the name), any attempt of theirs had the feeling of those educational movies where some old fucks decided to make a rap song, because "that's what the youth listens to these days".

Christianity in the Western world is in self-devouring mode right now. Its demographics is constantly aging, and of course the old people have no interest in modernizing the approach of it. So, it ends up digging in its heels on its stances, with fewer and fewer people willing to commit to something that feels so wrong on so many levels.
On the other hand, I don't know what a "modern Christianity" would look like. Would they openly say stuff like "yeah, the flood didn't happen, and Genesis didn't either. A lot of stuff in the gospels is plain made up too and added by whoever happened to write it down. But other than that, it'll save your soul!!"
(Interestingly, that was actually somewhat the angle my "Religion class" teacher was taking. But, I also couldn't help but notice that in church, they drove the hard line of "no, it's all true". I got the drift pretty quickly that they were trying to pull wool over my eyes)


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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2011, 08:58:28 PM »
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"yeah, the flood didn't happen, and Genesis didn't either. A lot of stuff in the gospels is plain made up too and added by whoever happened to write it down. But other than that, it'll save your soul!!"

You could just say that the old testament is not meant to be taken literally, but that it's a collection of records from the Jewish tradition that often hold some kind of allegorical or moral truth about how God wants people to live, or else are a wonderful source of information on how the ancient Jews reacted to God.

That's what the evil, cult-like Catholics say anyway. 

Offline rumborak

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2011, 09:25:33 PM »
That only moves the line though. The NT isn't flawless either; many parts have been proven (beyond reasonable doubt) to be additions and modifications.
And Christianity as a whole has been playing that game for too long, of always retreating the exact amount to remain barely out of the crossfire. That way the geocentric system was conceded; Genesis was conceded to Evolution. But almost never as a proactive action, but instead with grinding teeth, many many years after they had become the laughing stock for their claims.
If Christianity wants to stop itself from becoming a "religion for the under-educated and 3rd world countries", they need to make a dash forward and be honest about its failings. I think one major unmentioned aspect in that OP list is that people gets the feeling they're being lied to constantly.
I personally don't care either way about Christianity's fate because I think it outlived its usefulness, but from my perspective it needs to move forward fast, or die in the trenches.

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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2011, 10:32:41 PM »
Yeah, I'd be lying if I said during our Bible reading this year, I had to stop myself from thinking "bullshit, bullshit, bullshit" as I read through most of the OT, and instead had to train myself to think more along the lines that I was reading ancient historical documents that fused knowledge of the past with the deeply held religious convictions of the ancient Jews. After that, I was able to glean a bit more from it, though I still never finished the readings.

I'm not sure where you're going with "dead in the trenches" and "for the uneducated and 3rd world" comments. Sorry, but neither of those scenarios reflect where Christianity actually stands in the modern world at all. Not sure how you could come to those conclusions, honestly.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2011, 10:35:24 PM »
Well, I'm going by the fact that in Europe, for many years people leaving the churches have far outnumbered the people entering it, and in the US hardly any young people go to church either. The only places where Christianity is growing is in 3rd world countries.

EDIT: To back it up with numbers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_population_growth#United_States
https://www.atlasofglobalchristianity.org/images/samplepages_4.pdf

In the US, Christianity shrunk by 10% in the last 20 years, and in Europe even 15%.

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« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 10:47:04 PM by rumborak »
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2011, 11:13:08 PM »
But I think that has more to do with the Churches than it has to do with the faith itself "outliving its usefulness." 10 percent over 20 years isn't terrible when you consider the scandals that have rocked the church, and the fact that many churches have admittedly done a bad job of handling them.  Churches far away from all of that, like those in China and Asia, have been growing enormously over the last decade. The thing is, people naturally want to turn to sources of spiritual fulfillment, and Christianity still represents one of the longest standing and richest traditions in that department. That can not change. So, I don't think it's time to rule out Christianity as an outdated religion for the poor and stupid.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2011, 11:36:07 PM »
I definitely do not see any reason to assume the rate of leavings will decrease in the future. Anywhere churches end up in the news it's negative, be it Westborough, child abuse or whatever.
My point is really that Christianity makes its best headway in countries where people are still easy to sway, and have little exposure to competing world views.

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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2011, 12:00:55 AM »
What I'm saying is that I think the leavings have much more to do with exterior issues, like the scandals, than they do with people thinking the faith itself is "ridiculous." You seem to think that the majority of the churches still hold to that literalistic interpretation of the Bible which is so easy to discount. I'm not sure how you've gotten that impression. That is not what many of the largest churches teach, and it certainly shouldn't be what the Catholic Church teaches to those "easy to sway" people in the Southern Hemisphere.

From what I can tell, it's mainly American conservative churches that indoctrinate their young from birth with the ancient OT fairy-tales and the "The Bible is perfect and you're going to hell if you don't believe in its infallible, literal truth" way of thinking, and then teach them that "science" is evil as they get older. But those churches and the doctrine they teach are actually in the minority, and, from what I can tell, a unique phenomenon of conservative America. Between the two, I'm not sure I agree with the statement that the people the Catholics are converting in South Asia, Africa, and South America are somehow the more easy-to-sway of the two populations.


Offline rumborak

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2011, 12:23:11 AM »
What denomination is openly saying "yes, the Bible is plain wrong in numerous places"?

What the exact reasons are for Christianity booming in 3rd countries might be up for speculation, but I don't share your view it's because the faith is so "awesome". I you read any historical account of conversions, the local population usually heavily resists the new faiths (or secretly keeps practicing their old faiths at home), until adequate "incentives" are used (medical help after conversion, food etc.)

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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2011, 02:09:47 AM »
What the exact reasons are for Christianity booming in 3rd countries might be up for speculation, but I don't share your view it's because the faith is so "awesome".

Haha, no. I'm not saying the Church is doing well in those places because it's "so awesome," I'm saying it's doing well there because it is able to communicate with people in those places in a way that is relevant to the realities they experience in their daily lives. In the US and EU, it has done the opposite, as you've noticed.

I'm not sure you're clear on where I'm actually disagreeing with you. You seem to think this has more to do with people "leaving" the Church because the object to issues like the existence of God and the teachings of Jesus. You cite the Church's continued defenses of indefensible scriptural passages an example. That is what I am disagreeing with. I agree that people in the US and EU are showing less interest in being an active part of the Church community and not attending masses as often, but I am saying that is has more to do with the Church having "dropped the ball" on playing a positive role in their communities than it does beef with core beliefs. As far as scripture goes, the Catholic Church and several Protestant churches take a very reasonable stand on those types of passages you are talking about, both in the OT and NT. Honestly, I think your wide experience dealing with fundamentalists has maybe tainted your view of what most Christians actually believe?

I'd also like to note: "leaving" and "not attending" are two different things. I don't often attend mass, and nor do I belong to one in an official capacity, but I haven't "left" Christianity, or the Catholic Church. I'd imagine most of these Christians who've "left" are the same: they might not show up, but they still are a part of the faith. They still want to be married in the eyes of God in the Church, they still want their children to do the same, etc. 

Quote
What denomination is openly saying "yes, the Bible is plain wrong in numerous places"?

Catholic scholars generally agree that the Bible is not an infallible work, but an "interpretation" of the "Truth" which itself includes varied interpretations of what that is.
https://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HTM#5
Quote
Catholic exegesis does not claim any particular scientific method as its own. It recognizes that one of the aspects of biblical texts is that they are the work of human authors, who employed both their own capacities for expression and the means which their age and social context put at their disposal...

From what has just been said one can conclude that the Bible contains numerous indications and suggestions relating to the art of interpretation. In fact, from its very inception the Bible has been itself a work of interpretation. Its texts were recognized by the communities of the Former Covenant and by those of the apostolic age as the genuine expression of the common faith. It is in accordance with the interpretative work of these communities and together with it that the texts were accepted as sacred Scripture (thus, e.g. the Song of Songs was recognized as sacred Scripture when applied to the relation between God and Israel). In the course of the Bible's formation, the writings of which it consists were in many cases reworked and reinterpreted so as to make them respond to new situations previously unknown.
 

For a good, Catholic defense against "Sola Scriptura", view the following. Most notable is the first example: The Bible itself never claims the be the soul source of the "Truth", not does it claim it's own infallibility.
https://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 02:30:00 AM by Perpetual Change »

Offline rumborak

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2011, 03:58:03 AM »
You know what I mean though, right? The article you quoted from the CC, do you not get the feeling that they mincing words, dragging their feet? It reads like a politician's statement who doesn't want to admit something that is obvious to everybody else.

One thing that needs to be considered, I think, is also that church attendance and affiliation isn't something that people are sitting at home, pondering about over dinner. I think whether or not you feel like going to church or not is something that gets decided on gut feeling a lot. The point being, that one's decision to go to church will be decided on the cumulative effect of all of the above. The fact that it doesn't answer questions you want to have answered. The fact that they're pushing a document as essentially perfect that so clearly isn't. I think those things pile up, where on Sunday a person says "my friends are going to brunch at XYZ. I think I'll go there,"
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the people who get polled, for the first time spend thought on the issue at the time they're answering the call.

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Online hefdaddy42

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2011, 04:15:09 AM »
I read a book not long ago called Leaving Church, and the studies in that indicated that many of the people that are leaving church attendance are not leaving their belief; they just aren't getting their needs met in their local churches, so they are no longer attending.  They still believe in God, they just no longer believe in church.

I can relate in many ways.
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Offline ThroughHerEyesDude6

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2011, 04:21:32 AM »
So can I.

I consider myself a very spiritual guy. Christian? No. The views I have on God and her ways of living are completely radical compared to those in the Bible, but she and I have this agreement that whenever she needs me to do something I do it, and vice versa. We understand each other, and that only started when I came back to Christianity.

For the longest time I felt compelled to question my faith simply because it felt wrong to follow the teachings of something I didn't whole-heartedly agree with. Since I came back, I've read passages, studied sources, compared and contrasted ideologies, and in the end came up with my own faith. It's loosely Christian, but not Christian enough to call it that.

I pray, I ask for forgiveness, I seek counsel, and in the end I believe in a Heaven and reincarnation afterwards. However, none of this could have been possible without going back. When I read this thread about the reasons for and effects of leaving the church I think about what it did for me to go back.

Sure, it made me 'leave' it again, if you want to call it that, but I still feel close to God, and I think she appreciates that.


PS: if anyone is offended that I am calling God a girl, I apologize for nothing.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2011, 05:18:10 AM »
You know what I mean though, right? The article you quoted from the CC, do you not get the feeling that they mincing words, dragging their feet? It reads like a politician's statement who doesn't want to admit something that is obvious to everybody else.

Not really. I think it's a very reasonable approach to studying the Bible, actually. I don't get how it's "obvious to everybody else" either, since as you have noticed there are still plenty of fire-and-brimstone "let's see what Leviticus says about this!" based churches around the States. Those extreme voices tend to be the loudest, unfortunately-- I've known other Catholics who had no idea the RCC didn't require them to reject Evolution; they simply weren't aware of their own church's teachings enough to know that it was a lot different than the types of churches you see making a big fuss about those issues on the media.

I read a book not long ago called Leaving Church, and the studies in that indicated that many of the people that are leaving church attendance are not leaving their belief; they just aren't getting their needs met in their local churches, so they are no longer attending.  They still believe in God, they just no longer believe in church.
The thing you gotta consider is, rumbo, the divinity of Jesus and the merit of his teachings shouldn't have been any easier  for people living fifty years ago or even a couple of centuries ago to swallow, yet the drop off in the US and EU has only really started occurring in the last two decades. Why? Simply put, the Church is not delivering a message that people today would benefit from hearing, and the scandals in the US and EU have left people with a bitter impression of it all. Those people go on believing privately and showing up when need be, but they don't really feel any connection to the Church. Again, I think what the issue here is the Church has lost its standing in the communities of the US and EU. It has a lot less, if anything at all, to do with modern people in the first world being less inclined to take Jesus or Christianity seriously, which I think is what you're suggesting?

Offline William Wallace

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2011, 06:41:50 PM »
Would they openly say stuff like "yeah, the flood didn't happen, and Genesis didn't either. A lot of stuff in the gospels is plain made up too and added by whoever happened to write it down. But other than that, it'll save your soul!!"
rumborak
You're right, I think, that ordinary Christians need to be better informed and have at least some familiarity with biblical scholarship, but what you're suggesting is a sort of sanitized, ignore-all-but-liberal-scholarship version of Christianity, spurred on by people like John Shelby Spong. That's an unnecessary revision.

Offline Dark Castle

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2011, 07:15:17 PM »
I stopped going to church because Christianity/Catholicism doesn't make any sense to me and I'd rather be home sleeping/playing xbox because church is about as fun as watching a tree grow.

Definitely this. Church felt like a chore.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Why young people leave church
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2011, 10:16:48 PM »
The thing you gotta consider is, rumbo, the divinity of Jesus and the merit of his teachings shouldn't have been any easier  for people living fifty years ago or even a couple of centuries ago to swallow, yet the drop off in the US and EU has only really started occurring in the last two decades. Why? Simply put, the Church is not delivering a message that people today would benefit from hearing, and the scandals in the US and EU have left people with a bitter impression of it all. Those people go on believing privately and showing up when need be, but they don't really feel any connection to the Church. Again, I think what the issue here is the Church has lost its standing in the communities of the US and EU. It has a lot less, if anything at all, to do with modern people in the first world being less inclined to take Jesus or Christianity seriously, which I think is what you're suggesting?

The teachings of the churches across the world are pretty similar though, why would the Western churches be singled out to be the ones losing people due to its message?
My view on it it's because we're still experiencing the ramifications of the Enlightenment. Up until 100 years ago you couldn't speak out publicly against religion, and not showing up for church was equally a social death sentence (and it still is to this day in certain parts). However, that freedom is only slowly asserting itself over time, and the more it settles in, the more people disassociate themselves publicly from their church/religion.

rumborak
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."