Apparently this is what Republicans are concerneda about...

[rumborak]

Well, you can't blame the foreigners for purchasing a service that is up for sale, after all in the US schools are essentially "shops" where you buy education.
Regarding the local population, yeah, I think a good amount of laziness plays into it, and the lack of concerted effort to get the population educated. Any attempt to raise the baseline of education has been undercut by quibbling parties.

rumborak

[MasterShakezula]

What do you think could rectify this issue of a weak willed population?

[rumborak]

Things getting bad enough. That's how all humans around the world learn, frankly.

rumborak

[MasterShakezula]

So, if the economy proves poor enough, people will come to their senses and work their asses off to better themselves?

Shouldn't the government proceed to, I dunno, let it all fall apart, or artificially destroy it, for the sake of letting this happen, or something? 

[rumborak]

What government would get elected with that kind of platform?
There is a difference between what people want, and what gets the job done.

rumborak

[Scheavo]

Shouldn't the government proceed to, I dunno, let it all fall apart, or artificially destroy it, for the sake of letting this happen, or something? 

oh my god... republicans are geniuses! It all makes sense now...

It's cultural, so really government can't do anything. Gotta have parents who care about their kids education, otherwise there's no quality control, free-market or not.

[MasterShakezula]

Is there any way to make these useless parents do their jobs as parents and kick their kids' asses into gear?

What government would get elected with that kind of platform?

Also, yeah, obviously no government could get elected running on that platform.  However, I'm pretty sure a government is able to do the opposite of what they say they're going to. 

[soundgarden]

What do you think could rectify this issue of a weak willed population?

I think is a situation of "natural cycle of empires."  A burgeoning empire will have a collective will of the people for communal growth.  Once it reaches a certain level of influence and power and easy of living for its members the will for progress dies because the essential challenge is lost.  What remains is only a will to enjoy the happiness attained.  Where there is no larger, grandeur, objective for a nation of people aside form just maintaining the norm then acceptance and even retrograde seems to begin.

Our educational system is the top of the planet because it was established alongside an empire building itself.  It grew alongside an industry free and open demanding talent.  It grew alongside a country with an elite class just waiting to  be populated.  And lately in the past century it was World War 2 and The Cold War which kept education (and industry) at the helm of government objectives.

Today, we really have no grandeur objectives only that to maintain the top spot.  The people are becoming less interested in education because they rightfully see less and less of the need.  Its no surprise that graduate programs throughout the nation are populated by non-western foreigners and why the government has to give mandates to hire Americans, as Rumbo pointed out.

We can't simply TELL American students "hey, be interested in science its going to help us."  The people have to FEEL the need, understand the need. 

I really think its a natural cycle of empires and there is really no avoiding it.  Only after America has significantly lost her power and influence then its spark will be reignited*

(* or a nation-threatening War.  A War supported by the people always helps too...)


EDIT

What can also help is to open up our borders more to foreigners.  Let Americans see what lack of interest in education is costing them.  Yes, talent might be taken back oversees to home country but so will Western Ideals, American favor-ism, and capitalistic notions all of which will indirectly help us to handle and understand a global economy.

Protectionism and Isolationism is the VERY LAST thing this country needs.

[MasterShakezula]

That seems to make a good deal of sense.

However, I would like to know, would there be a way for the government and people of the US to speed up this process and force the US to lose its power and influence, therefore motivating the people to cut the crap and be of use to their nation through hard work and innovation?

Also, I notice Japan, despite having a level of power/influence similar to the US, is still super-motivated through the use of a school system that weeds the wastes of space out of any chance of getting a good paying job, and hence ruining their social standing, and rewards the diligent, allowing them to reap the benefits of getting a high-paying job and prestige in society.

Could this be successfully implemented in the US, and if so, would it have a positive effect on society?

[rumborak]

What can also help is to open up our borders more to foreigners.  Let Americans see what lack of interest in education is costing them.  Yes, talent might be taken back oversees to home country but so will Western Ideals, American favor-ism, and capitalistic notions all of which will indirectly help us to handle and understand a global economy.

Protectionism and Isolationism is the VERY LAST thing this country needs.

There is the confounding factor that at some point the flow of talented foreigners will dry out. Countries like China and India, which used to be the main source of those foreigners, are rapidly shooting upwards, and thus there is no desire for those people to leave their homeland anymore, and rather use their innate talent there.

@MasterShakezula: I dunno whether you can use Japan as a model. They have a very strong culture that is very dissimilar to Western culture.

But, I'm not sure all is so bleak. Not every empire died in a glorious dissolution. Many of them just learned their proper space on the world's stage, and this just might happen in the US too. One feature about American culture is also that they tend to fall on their feet; maybe all it takes is another Sputnik moment.

rumborak

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

well thats kind of a two wrongs dont make a right situation

Just for the record, it was established in a previous thread that two wrongs actually do make a right:

"Two wrongs don't make a right."

So we have to figure out what plus wrong WILL equal right.

X + wrong = right

So to figure for X, we subtract wrong from each side, which gives us this:

X = right - wrong.

So when we put that back into the initial equation, we end up with this:

(right-wrong) + wrong = right.

The two wrongs essentially cancel each other out, leaving this:

right = right

So two wrongs DO make a right.

[MasterShakezula]

I understand that Japan's collective culture is different from ours.  However I think that the fear of facing a lifetime in poverty/near-poverty and a very poor reputation is (hopefully) a universal fear that would transcend the cultural barrier, assuming Americans' sense isn't already too far gone. 

As for a Sputnik moment, I believe it could prove to be useful as a sort of collective kick in the ass.  I just hope that America cares enough to step it up when that does happen.  I see the people of my generation at school every day, the people who will one day be the US's workforce and government, and I wonder if these people will care enough to make the US great, and I just don't know.  They seem more apathetic than any people to come before them.