Author Topic: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy  (Read 4948 times)

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Offline black_biff_stadler

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Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« on: November 04, 2011, 03:44:33 PM »
Are you capable of it, does it completely destroy your ability to like a band if you don't care for the vocals, or do you fall somewhere in the middle? I'm in the middle but used to lean more strongly toward an attitude of "Fuck it! The music's good so I can put up with it." I got the idea for this thread when listening to Death's cover of Judas Priest's Painkiller and it reminded me of how Chuck Schuldiner and Mikael Åkerfeldt helped me through my distaste of death metal vocals because their music was so damn good.

I also had already been a DT fan for 5 years by the time I finally started liking DM vox so by that point I was pretty good at ignoring vocals since I've never been big on JLB's vocal style but will instantly give him props on his ability (once again it's an issue of his style not being to my liking and nothing to do with his ability.)

Nowadays my main issue is dealing with (forgive me for sounding dismissive but it's just an honest opinion) "wimpy" vocals. I have never enjoyed the sound of someone taking the softy approach as a major means of delivering their vocals and this seems to dominate many power/prog/emo/pop bands. I'm cool with someone having a subdued, sensitive delivery when a section of a song or even an entire ballad calls for it but some bands have singers that just do it all over the place and it really drains the energy from it for me and can frequently pull the whole song down like an anchor.

I also dislike when singers go all-out on the roaring to an extent beyond what the song seemed to call for (I'm looking at you Between the Buried and Me) but can more easily get over that since at least the energy is there and I can still focus on the music without being annoyed by the feeling that a singer didn't try their damndest to bring the song alive. These are obviously all opinions and I hope no one thinks I have any kind of axe to grind with prog/other genres.

So ladies/germs, tell _floyd about how you deal with bands where the vocals are the only thing stopping you from fully enjoying them.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2011, 04:01:46 PM »
You make it sound like vocals are separate and are an obstacle that sometimes must be overcome to get to the music.  I guess if you want to look at music like that, that's your prerogative.  But that's not how I look at music, generally speaking.  To me, the vocals are part of the song, just as much as the lead instrument(s), rhythm instrument(s), percussion instrument(s), etc.  Is it possible in music to like some of what is going on in a song and not other parts?  Sure.  I can like, for example, the percussion without liking the guitars.  Or I can like the keyboards without liking the vocals.  But if a major part of the music, such as the lead vocals, is something that I don't enjoy, odds are, I won't enjoy the song as a whole package very much.  But it's not an issue of separating the vocals.  For example, I don't generally like screams/growls.  Sometimes they work, but as a general rule, that's not my thing.  That being said, I find myself liking some music that has those styles.  Recently, for example, I find myself liking the new Trivium album.  They music is pretty good, the clean vocals are pretty good, and the screamy growly stuff I find sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.  So, anyway, for what it's worth, that's my take.
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Offline FretMuppet

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2011, 04:02:48 PM »
I'm on the fence with Opeth, instrumentally they're fucking brilliant but I can't stand growls, even though I listen to bands like Trivium, growling just isn't my thing

Offline Zantera

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2011, 04:09:48 PM »
I don't think vocals have made me give up on a band.
There are a few ones that were "obstacles" for me to overcome, a few that comes to mind would be Opeth and Between the Buried and Me, mostly cause that type of singing was something new to me.
I didn't dislike it at first, but it took some time before it really started to grow on me.
I sometimes have the same "problem" or thing with other bands, but again, I almost always get used to them.

Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2011, 04:12:49 PM »
I don't like the vocals of Yes and Neutral Milk Hotel but I love both bands.

Offline Gorille85

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2011, 04:18:48 PM »
The vocals are a part of the music and if I don't enjoy a part of what I'm listening then it's hard to appreciate it.

Offline jammindude

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2011, 04:26:42 PM »
If you *TRULY* believe that vocals should not be an obstacle to enjoying a song...I DEFY you to sit through William Shatner's version of Bohemian Rhapsody.   Then we can talk.
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Offline zxlkho

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2011, 04:33:50 PM »
If you *TRULY* believe that vocals should not be an obstacle to enjoying a song...I DEFY you to sit through William Shatner's version of Bohemian Rhapsody.   Then we can talk.

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Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2011, 04:34:02 PM »
I find the NORMAL version of Bohemian Rhapsody is bad because of the vocals. I find them really obnoxious in that song.

Offline Zook

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2011, 05:02:58 PM »
Pretty much what bosk said. There are always exceptions. I can sit through the horridness of Gene Adam's voice on Iced Earth's debut because the music is great, but I can't sit through something like... wait for it... Protest The Hero because even though I think Gene Adam is the worst singer in the universe, the guy fro PTH annoys me so much that I can't even find appreciation in the music.

Also, I need vocals to have some sense of melody and da screamin' and da growlin' just don't give me that.

That being said, Into Eternity is the only band where I've been able to appreciate screams and growls. What they do (at least on Buried In Oblivion and The Scattering Of Ashes) just meshes so well.

In closing, if vocals sound like shit, I usually don't stick around just for the music.

Offline zxlkho

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2011, 05:06:19 PM »
Holy shit, he DIDN'T mention Mike Patton...
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Orion....that's the one with a bunch of power chords and boringly harsh vocals, isn't it?

Offline Zook

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2011, 05:11:58 PM »
Don't even get me started on Mike "I can make weird noises, please like me" Patton.

Offline Pols Voice

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2011, 05:13:06 PM »
Vocals consistently ruin music I'd otherwise check out. That's one of the reasons why I love instrumental music. I don't like most of the metal vocalists that everybody worships (I won't name names), but LaBrie is one of my favorite singers. If DT had a more stereotypical "metal" voice, I probably wouldn't listen to them.
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Offline HarlequinForest

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2011, 05:26:29 PM »
The only kind of vocals I tend to dislike are metalcore, but there are still a few bands I like despite them, such as Between the Buried and Me, Protest the Hero, All That Remains, and What's Left of Her.

I even listened to Cacophony, despite them having the worst vocalist ever, relative to the music.

Offline TAC

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2011, 05:31:17 PM »
I'm on the fence with Opeth, instrumentally they're fucking brilliant but I can't stand growls, even though I listen to bands like Trivium, growling just isn't my thing
The problem with Opeth is not only the growls, but when he goes clean, they're "wimpy" as the OP says.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2011, 05:50:40 PM »
I'm on the fence with Opeth, instrumentally they're fucking brilliant but I can't stand growls, even though I listen to bands like Trivium, growling just isn't my thing

I totally agree. I have had so many failed attempts to get into Opeth for this very reason. The music is quite brilliant though. Hope Leaves is one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard. I really need to check out Heritage.

Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2011, 06:18:09 PM »
does it completely destroy your ability to like a band if you don't care for the vocals
Pretty much.

Offline Ultimetalhead

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2011, 06:25:15 PM »
The vocals have to be pretty horrendous for me to dislike a band solely because of the singer. Really, the only band I can think of is Coheed & Cambria.

Oh, and whatever they're calling the band that created Lulu.
Orion....that's the one with a bunch of power chords and boringly harsh vocals, isn't it?
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Offline Zantera

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2011, 06:42:59 PM »
Pretty much what bosk said. There are always exceptions. I can sit through the horridness of Gene Adam's voice on Iced Earth's debut because the music is great, but I can't sit through something like... wait for it... Protest The Hero because even though I think Gene Adam is the worst singer in the universe, the guy fro PTH annoys me so much that I can't even find appreciation in the music.

I can somewhat agree on the Protest the Hero-part.
Being a newbie, I can't speak for Kezia or Fortress (maybe the vocals there are much different), but on Scurrilous, I think it has some interesting music, dragged down by the vocals, frankly I find them to be fairly cheesy and "doesn't fit the music".

I honestly don't even care if people will flame me for that, but Kezia and Fortress might be much different obviously, so this only applies to what I think about Scurrilous.

Offline Jirpo

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2011, 06:55:51 PM »
Depends on just how bad the vocals are. If its just a matter of me slightly disliking a persons voice (eg. Roger Waters, Axl Rose) I can get past it easily if I like the music.

Offline black_biff_stadler

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2011, 07:12:47 PM »
I'm on the fence with Opeth, instrumentally they're fucking brilliant but I can't stand growls, even though I listen to bands like Trivium, growling just isn't my thing
The problem with Opeth is not only the growls, but when he goes clean, they're "wimpy" as the OP says.

I don't think you were implying that I thought Åkerfeldt's clean vocals are wimpy but just to clarify the issue, I only find clean vocals "wimpy" when the singer (by my own opinion) attempts to force emotion and/or sing in a way that seems to be intentionally effeminate/emasculated/stripped of the usual level of strength in their voice.
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Offline The King in Crimson

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2011, 07:40:53 PM »
It really depends on the ratio of shitty vocals to good/awesome music but since I've started to tolerate death growls I find that vocals rarely ruin music anymore. Unless they're really, ridiculously terrible. Like Neutral Milk Hotel bad.

Offline carl320

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2011, 09:36:36 PM »
My biggest hurdle with Katatonia was the vocals.  I bought Viva Emptiness on blind faith and that was the first thing I noticed.  I don't know what it is about Jonas' vocals but they are kind of strange.  It took a lot of listens to VE before it really grew on me.
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Offline MasterShakezula

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2011, 09:38:25 PM »
I don't especially like a lot of modern rock vocals, but generally, if the music's good, the vocals don't have to be great for me to enjoy.

Now, with jazz, I definitely must have it instrumental.   Just my personal preference, there. 

Offline Jirpo

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2011, 12:10:20 AM »
I don't especially like a lot of modern rock vocals, but generally, if the music's good, the vocals don't have to be great for me to enjoy.

Now, with jazz, I definitely must have it instrumental.   Just my personal preference, there. 
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2011, 12:14:10 AM »
does it completely destroy your ability to like a band if you don't care for the vocals, 

For the most part, yes.  Don't get me wrong, I listen to plenty of bands that have what I would call average vocals, but I can safely say that I do not like the vocals at all, I am probably not gonna like the band (assuming they are featured regularly).

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2011, 12:16:49 AM »
I'm very picky with vocalists. They're definitely a deal breaker. I can't listen to music that would otherwise be good but has crap vocals, because vocals are a big part of the music for me.
When it comes to the rock/metal stuff, I don't like vocalists with really soft voices (I don't mean clean, I mostly mean weak and girly), and I generally don't like vocalists who can only sing in a lower register. I like the big powerful vocals that fit the music.
And I'm even pickier for death metal vocals, as it's not a genre I'm hugely in to. I don't like screams or yells or pig squeals. I like a good growl.
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Offline Zook

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2011, 12:17:25 AM »
What kinda jazz are you guys talking about? Smooth Jazz like on the radio with saximaphones and stuff? Nora Jones type stuff?

Offline Ravenheart

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2011, 12:36:57 AM »
I guess a vocalist would have to be remarkably bad to ruin my enjoyment of the songs as wholes.

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2011, 12:48:22 AM »
I've become a lot more tolerant. I started metal with a "no-growl" policy, basically. Children of Bodom was the first "growling" band I ever got into, and it snow-balled from there.

Growl vocals still only work on a case-by-case basis. I don't really like Periphery, but I like BTBAM and Opeth. Don't like Gojira, but I like Devin Townsend and Immortal.

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Offline MasterShakezula

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2011, 07:27:06 AM »
What kinda jazz are you guys talking about? Smooth Jazz like on the radio with saximaphones and stuff? Nora Jones type stuff?

Hard bop, bebop, big band, cool, post bop, bossa nova (may or may not be jazz), fusion (also may or may not be jazz), third stream (another fuzzy area), ect.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2011, 07:45:22 AM »
Vocals are make or break for me.  There's not way I can overlook vocals I don't like just to enjoy the surrounding music.

If I don't like the vocals, I don't listen to the band.



Offline TAC

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2011, 11:20:37 AM »
I'm on the fence with Opeth, instrumentally they're fucking brilliant but I can't stand growls, even though I listen to bands like Trivium, growling just isn't my thing
The problem with Opeth is not only the growls, but when he goes clean, they're "wimpy" as the OP says.

I don't think you were implying that I thought Åkerfeldt's clean vocals are wimpy but just to clarify the issue, I only find clean vocals "wimpy" when the singer (by my own opinion) attempts to force emotion and/or sing in a way that seems to be intentionally effeminate/emasculated/stripped of the usual level of strength in their voice.
No, no. I was taking your defiition of "wimpy" and I was applying them to Akerfeldt. While Opeth's music is very good, I can't even get into the clean vocals, never mind the growls! :lol

If I don't like the vocals, I don't listen to the band.
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would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Sigz

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2011, 11:44:20 AM »
If I really dislike the vocals I won't listen to the band. However, there are very few bands with vocals I legitimately dislike - I'm pretty open when it comes to singing.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Vocals: Not letting them ruin music you'd otherwise enjoy
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2011, 01:47:45 PM »
For me, 'music' encompasses all aspects of it - the instrumentation and the vocals.  If any part of it is weak (for my own preferences), I have trouble with it.  Like Bosk and others, I'm generally not a fan of growl/scream vocals (but they have their moments).  However, put a good vocalist with music (a style or sound) that I don't like, and it can't make up for it (for example, JLB in True Symphonic Rockestra). 

So, to answer the OP, if I don't like the vocals (or instruments), I can't 'get past' them to enjoy the instruments (or vocals).
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