Author Topic: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?  (Read 8943 times)

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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #70 on: November 01, 2011, 07:04:43 AM »
Only if you believe in a creator, really.   

Yes, but the existence of a creator is not dependent upon whether or not anyone subjectively believes in the creator.
 
It has more to do with believing one narrow view of a creator, than the fact that a creator may exist.
You subjectively believe you know specific attributes of a creator...that doesnt mean the creator is anything like you think...or even exists at all.

There's nothing terribly wrong with using your religion as a reason for your position, but you're going to lose everyone who has different beliefs (or lack there of) at square one if you do so. 

That's okay.  Anyone who attempts to answer this question without reference to the creator loses me at square one.

They dont lose you if they dont reference a creator....just your narrow view of a creator.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #71 on: November 01, 2011, 07:08:14 AM »
Yes, but again, my subjective belief is irrelevant.  Whatever you or I may happen to subjectively believe on the subject does nothing to change the answer to the question posed in the thread title.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2011, 07:11:07 AM »
Yes, but again, my subjective belief is irrelevant.  Whatever you or I may happen to subjectively believe on the subject does nothing to change the answer to the question posed in the thread title.

It doesnt?  I think it absolutely does.  The value something has is absolutely subjective.  The value something has can mean different things to different people.  There is no absolute answer to this question.  The real answer is that some things have more value to some than to others.  It has to be done on a case by case basis, and cant be answered with a blanket absolute rule.  I think that has become clear considering the varying answers in this thread.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2011, 07:18:21 AM »
I don't think the fact that a mere dozen or so people on the Internet have different opinions makes anything "clear."  :lol
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2011, 07:22:48 AM »
I would think that anyone having another opinion illustrates my point.
I am not saying the "answer" to the question is clear....the fact that there are so many differing opinions, and so many varying degrees to similar opinions, that the "answer" is that there is no clear over-arching answer.
It isnt a question that can be answered for everyone with one YES or NO.  Value is assigned differently by different people for different reasons.
Get it?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #75 on: November 01, 2011, 07:27:45 AM »
Oh, I absolutely get what you are saying.  I just don't think it is correct.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #76 on: November 01, 2011, 07:33:47 AM »
I don't think the fact that a mere dozen or so people on the Internet have different opinions makes anything "clear."  :lol

But an old book does I guess.   :lol

Oh, I absolutely get what you are saying.  I just don't think it is correct.

I get what you are saying, and think your belief on this matter are correct....for you.  If you assign value to something over another, whatever your reasoning, then it does indeed have more value to you....which as you know, is exactly my point.  :) 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 09:19:10 AM by eric42434224 »
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2011, 09:19:09 AM »
I don't think the fact that a mere dozen or so people on the Internet have different opinions makes anything "clear."  :lol

But an old book does I guess.   :lol

Depends on the book.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2011, 09:21:32 AM »
I don't think the fact that a mere dozen or so people on the Internet have different opinions makes anything "clear."  :lol

But an old book does I guess.   :lol

Depends on the book.

No it doesnt.  Whatever your reason, that is fine.  I dont care if you take your reasons from an old Spiderman comic.  If your beliefs and reasoning cause you to assign one thing more value than another, then that is perfectly reasonable, and the basis of my point.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #79 on: November 01, 2011, 09:28:02 AM »
I don't think the fact that a mere dozen or so people on the Internet have different opinions makes anything "clear."  :lol

But an old book does I guess.   :lol

Depends on the book.

No it doesnt.  Whatever your reason, that is fine.  I dont care if you take your reasons from an old Spiderman comic.  If your beliefs and reasoning cause you to assign one thing more value than another, then that is perfectly reasonable, and the basis of my point.

Yes, actually it does.  If my beliefs are based on a Spider Man comic, then I'm pretty much a nut.  If my beliefs are based on a reliable, objectively true source, then my beliefs have a foundation in that truth.

It would be kind of (but not exactly) like if my beliefs on gravity came from what Newton wrote on the subject, then even if my understanding is a little off, my beliefs are based on fairly objective, immutable information.  If my beliefs about how gravity works come from a science fiction novel about a fictitious world where gravity functions according to a different set of rules than what we observe in the universe, my beliefs will be flawed.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #80 on: November 01, 2011, 09:32:33 AM »
I don't think the fact that a mere dozen or so people on the Internet have different opinions makes anything "clear."  :lol

But an old book does I guess.   :lol

Depends on the book.

No it doesnt.  Whatever your reason, that is fine.  I dont care if you take your reasons from an old Spiderman comic.  If your beliefs and reasoning cause you to assign one thing more value than another, then that is perfectly reasonable, and the basis of my point.

Yes, actually it does.  If my beliefs are based on a Spider Man comic, then I'm pretty much a nut.  If my beliefs are based on a reliable, objectively true source, then my beliefs have a foundation in that truth.

It would be kind of (but not exactly) like if my beliefs on gravity came from what Newton wrote on the subject, then even if my understanding is a little off, my beliefs are based on fairly objective, immutable information.  If my beliefs about how gravity works come from a science fiction novel about a fictitious world where gravity functions according to a different set of rules than what we observe in the universe, my beliefs will be flawed.

You completely missed my point.  You are looking for one answer for everyone on this question.  You cant equate a subjective assignment of value to a proven physical law of nature.  Apples and Oranges.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #81 on: November 01, 2011, 09:35:16 AM »
No, I understand your point.  But mine is that there is an objective answer for everyone, whether they realize that or not.  The application of that answer may vary depending on the circumstances, but that isn't the question.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline ehra

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #82 on: November 01, 2011, 09:42:20 AM »
I'd be interested in discussing my short paragraph on this topic. At the very least I think it'd be a more productive discussion than "the bible is objective truth" "nuh-uh" "yeah-huh"

Offline Liberation

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #83 on: November 01, 2011, 09:46:21 AM »
Agreed.

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #84 on: November 01, 2011, 09:47:15 AM »
No, I understand your point.  But mine is that there is an objective answer for everyone, whether they realize that or not.  The application of that answer may vary depending on the circumstances, but that isn't the question.

And I understand your point.  You feel the need to have one objective answer, as if it were a fact like gravity.  You think the word of the god of the bible is that objective answer....got it.  I got it pages back.
My point is that I accept your reasoning as your reasoning.  No arguements.  But simply judging for the fact that some disagree with you, not just on your reasoning, but on the answer itself, illustrates my point that value is assigned on an individual basis.  Your god may say that all humans are more valuable, but actions speak louder than words.  Humans both say and do things that show the contrary, and that is indisputable.  If the question asked, "does GOD say humans are more valuable than other animals?", your point is more appropriate.  But the simple fact that not only do people have varying opinions on the question, but also do things to support their position, seems to me at least, to support the view that it is subjective.  Even if god does say humans are more valuable....it is clear that that is not always the case as evidenced by things happening every day around us.  It doesnt matter if god says something is more valuable....if it is treated as less valuable, it IS less valuable to someone plain and simple.

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Offline yeshaberto

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #85 on: November 01, 2011, 09:55:47 AM »
I think I hear ur point eric.   The operative word for me in the op is inhrently.  Practically we all place differing values in things like say a dollar bill.   I understand inherent to point to the actual true value beside what we place on it.   

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #86 on: November 01, 2011, 09:56:55 AM »
Interesting/Ironic that we are in a discussion about god assigning more value to humans over animals, when many say that god assigns more value to some humans over other humans (as in you must accept/believe/do certain things or no heaven for you, etc).  I guess even god's assignment of value is viewed as subjective, considering the varying interpretations of gods views.   :lol
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Offline Rathma

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #87 on: November 01, 2011, 09:59:17 AM »
Yes, but again, my subjective belief is irrelevant.  Whatever you or I may happen to subjectively believe on the subject does nothing to change the answer to the question posed in the thread title.

This is actually correct, since the question in the thread title implies that value can somehow be objective ("inherently"), even though a majority of people today probably wouldn't even acknowledge objective value, myself included. The result; a bunch of unproductive posts.

Offline yeshaberto

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #88 on: November 01, 2011, 10:00:10 AM »
The parable of the prodigal son declares otherwise



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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #89 on: November 01, 2011, 10:00:21 AM »
I think I hear ur point eric.   The operative word for me in the op is inhrently.  Practically we all place differing values in things like say a dollar bill.   I understand inherent to point to the actual true value beside what we place on it.

I see where you are coming from, but that view can only come from a religious/creator framework.  Inherent only means that it comes from within the organism.  You are assigning an over arching value from the presumption that your god says it to be so.  I get that and respect it.  But the fact, for me, is that everybody is inherently different, and everybodys perception of things are different...therefore values assigned to things...both by the self and others, will be different.

EDIT: and the dollar bill illustrates my point.  You take the dollar bills true value to be what some entity (the govt) says it should be...1$.  Yet the dollar bill value can increase or decrease daily....it can buy more or less at different times....even more or less at the same time in different regions.  Your premise relies on the fact that all dollar bills are the same.  Humans arent.  They have wide ranging qualities/skills/abilities that make them quite unique.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 10:08:03 AM by eric42434224 »
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #90 on: November 01, 2011, 10:01:02 AM »
Yes, but again, my subjective belief is irrelevant.  Whatever you or I may happen to subjectively believe on the subject does nothing to change the answer to the question posed in the thread title.

This is actually correct, since the question in the thread title implies that value can somehow be objective ("inherently"), even though a majority of people today probably wouldn't even acknowledge objective value, myself included. The result; a bunch of unproductive posts.


No.  Inherent and Objective are not the same.  And I wouldnt call the posts unproductive.  I would call your post saying so to be a bit insulting.
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Offline Rathma

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #91 on: November 01, 2011, 10:14:09 AM »
Lol sorry if I insulted. It was just my subjective opinion on the value of the argument  ;)

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #92 on: November 01, 2011, 10:24:37 AM »
Lol sorry if I insulted. It was just my subjective opinion on the value of the argument  ;)

Seriously, you bring up a good point.  If we cant even agree on what a very important term in the discussion means, how can there be a productive discussion?  Inherent simply means "from within".  What about that organism makes it valuable?  That doesnt necessarily mean what gods views on the value are.  If someone views that something as more valuable, then it has a higher value to them.  Great.  If you believe that gods opinion that being human is more valuable, which as a believer makes it your opinion, that is great too.  There is no "objective" assesment here.  It is all predicated on your opinions or beliefs...therefore subjective.
Just like the dollar bill.....the govt can say that is is worth "one US dollar", but that is arbitrary.  Its real objective value fluctuates constantly.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 02:11:04 PM by eric42434224 »
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Offline yeshaberto

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #93 on: November 01, 2011, 03:39:56 PM »
actually, my reference to the intrinsic value of the dollar bill was the fact that it was a piece of paper.  whatever it was worth as a piece of paper is its intrinsic value.  what value is placed on it by economies or gov't is its practical value.

but probably not the best analogy in the world  :lol

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #94 on: November 01, 2011, 03:52:13 PM »
What's interesting to me about these kinds of conversations, is that the course of the conversation seems to answer the question more fully than what actually goes on in the conversation. If there were objective values, why would people disagree on them so much? Why would everyone have their own values? I don't have my own law of physics, which is why physics is objective. Values and morals are not "reproducible," and I would say that reproducibility is a qualifier for objectivity.

Offline PraXis

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #95 on: November 01, 2011, 05:42:35 PM »
Yes, a human life is more valuable. Animals are tasty.

Offline HarlequinForest

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Re: Is a human life inherently more valuable than that of a different animal's?
« Reply #96 on: November 02, 2011, 12:54:37 AM »
There is no inherent value to any life, only the value that you give it.  To me, yes, human life is generally more valuable than that of other lifeforms.