Author Topic: Dave Chappelle  (Read 12685 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 36088
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #210 on: October 20, 2021, 10:23:01 AM »
I'm just posting to declare that it took me 6 months to discover that Cis meant straight. So we went from straight to hetro to Cis.  ::)

Ugh......

I apologize for those 6 months, but cis doesn't mean straight or hetero. In this context, it simply means that you identify with the sex you were born in, that's all. You can be cis and gay or trans and straight.

fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74076
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #211 on: October 20, 2021, 10:23:41 AM »
I'm just posting to declare that it took me 6 months to discover that Cis meant straight. So we went from straight to hetro to Cis.  ::)

Ugh......

Well, no, because as it has been explained here, cis doesn't mean straight or hetero. My stepson is gay. But he a male that was born a male, hence cis..right?
He's not straight, or hetero, but he is still cis.
Did I do that right??
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 36088
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #212 on: October 20, 2021, 10:26:52 AM »
I'm just posting to declare that it took me 6 months to discover that Cis meant straight. So we went from straight to hetro to Cis.  ::)

Ugh......

Well, no, because as it has been explained here, cis doesn't mean straight or hetero. My stepson is gay. But he a male that was born a male, hence cis..right?
He's not straight, or hetero, but he is still cis.
Did I do that right??

Crushed it like Chino crushes pussy.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Online lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 29693
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #213 on: October 20, 2021, 10:43:32 AM »
I'm just posting to declare that it took me 6 months to discover that Cis meant straight. So we went from straight to hetro to Cis.  ::)

Ugh......

Cis doesn't mean straight though. You can be cis and gay. Cis just means your inner gender identity matches with your genetic sex.

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59288
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #214 on: October 20, 2021, 10:47:24 AM »
RJ is a Cis Chef.

I am a Cis Couch Potato.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Online lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 29693
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #215 on: October 20, 2021, 10:50:29 AM »
 :heart

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74076
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #216 on: October 20, 2021, 10:52:23 AM »
I'm just posting to declare that it took me 6 months to discover that Cis meant straight. So we went from straight to hetro to Cis.  ::)

Ugh......

Well, no, because as it has been explained here, cis doesn't mean straight or hetero. My stepson is gay. But he a male that was born a male, hence cis..right?
He's not straight, or hetero, but he is still cis.
Did I do that right??

Crushed it like Chino crushes pussy.

But I thought Chino was married. 
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43005
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #217 on: October 20, 2021, 10:55:58 AM »
I'm just posting to declare that it took me 6 months to discover that Cis meant straight. So we went from straight to hetro to Cis.  ::)

Ugh......

Well, no, because as it has been explained here, cis doesn't mean straight or hetero. My stepson is gay. But he a male that was born a male, hence cis..right?
He's not straight, or hetero, but he is still cis.
Did I do that right??

Crushed it like Chino crushes pussy.

But I thought Chino was married.

In keeping with this thread, you can be married and still crush pussy.  I mean, not me, but maybe Chino.  :) :)

Online hunnus2000

  • Posts: 1918
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #218 on: October 20, 2021, 11:00:30 AM »
Quote from: lonestar link=topic=48813.msg2821893#msg2https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/Smileys/default/facepalm.gif821893 date=1634748212
I'm just posting to declare that it took me 6 months to discover that Cis meant straight. So we went from straight to hetro to Cis.  ::)

Ugh......

Cis doesn't mean straight though. You can be cis and gay. Cis just means your inner gender identity matches with your genetic sex.

I can't keep up. I'm going back to bed.....

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43005
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #219 on: October 20, 2021, 11:02:14 AM »
I'm just posting to declare that it took me 6 months to discover that Cis meant straight. So we went from straight to hetro to Cis.  ::)

Ugh......

I apologize for those 6 months, but cis doesn't mean straight or hetero. In this context, it simply means that you identify with the sex you were born in, that's all. You can be cis and gay or trans and straight.

Not being sarcastic or snarky, but how would you define "trans" and "straight"?   "Straight" would mean you're attracted to what, the opposite SEX or the opposite GENDER?   I think for me that would be the opposite "sex" - female - so if I was trans, would that make me someone who transitioned to male, to align my gender with my physical attributes, right?   So Catlyn Jenner, who transitioned to female, is dating a woman, that makes her a homosexual, correct? 

(And that aspect is something I have to get my arms around in terms of understanding; if the gender makeup doesn't match the physical sex, but he went 60 years attracted to females, and maintains that, how does that wash with the gender makeup?   I won't lie that I find some of this to be...  hard to accept because it seems like a solution looking for a problem, or rather, an inexact solution to a deeper problem, since it seems overly complicated to assume that he was all these sort of low-probability things all at once.)

Offline XeRocks81

  • Posts: 1445
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #220 on: October 20, 2021, 11:10:31 AM »
I think in that case caitlyn jenner is a trans woman and a lesbian(or bi-sexual or however she identifies, I don’t follow her closely).  I mean I’ve also seen « gay » used to describe BOTH lesbians and homosexuals so whatever, the best thing is always to ask the person but that’s not always possible obvs.

Online Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 36088
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #221 on: October 20, 2021, 11:16:02 AM »
I'm just posting to declare that it took me 6 months to discover that Cis meant straight. So we went from straight to hetro to Cis.  ::)

Ugh......

I apologize for those 6 months, but cis doesn't mean straight or hetero. In this context, it simply means that you identify with the sex you were born in, that's all. You can be cis and gay or trans and straight.

Not being sarcastic or snarky, but how would you define "trans" and "straight"?   "Straight" would mean you're attracted to what, the opposite SEX or the opposite GENDER?   I think for me that would be the opposite "sex" - female - so if I was trans, would that make me someone who transitioned to male, to align my gender with my physical attributes, right?   So Catlyn Jenner, who transitioned to female, is dating a woman, that makes her a homosexual, correct? 

(And that aspect is something I have to get my arms around in terms of understanding; if the gender makeup doesn't match the physical sex, but he went 60 years attracted to females, and maintains that, how does that wash with the gender makeup?   I won't lie that I find some of this to be...  hard to accept because it seems like a solution looking for a problem, or rather, an inexact solution to a deeper problem, since it seems overly complicated to assume that he was all these sort of low-probability things all at once.)

I am having a hard time understanding some of what you're saying, but I will answer what I can understand.

1. Caitlyn (as Xe pointed out above me) would then be a trans-woman and lesbian or bi (if she identifies as that).
2. The attraction might be up to that individual. It gets kind of murky and difficult to make into binary definitions, which is of course kind of the point. A lot of this is moving away from binary concepts, which is difficult for many of us who have always lived with binary concepts.

As far as the rest goes, I dunno. I can't quite follow what you're saying on all of it. However, the concept of gender is very nebulous in general and doesn't have strict rigid definitions like sex seems to (though that can often be murky too).
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Online Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15690
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #222 on: October 20, 2021, 11:49:23 AM »
Gender and Biological Sex are two separate concepts. This is how I see them.

What one feels in their attitudes and overall expression, let's go with Feminine as an example, are those that are common among the gender known as Female. Females, have feminine qualities. And Vice-Versa with Males, having Masculine qualities.

You can now be free to express your inner feminine/masculine qualities that you identify with in the manner that presents that quality. This expression is in the form of dress, behavior, emotions, and even dance.

Societies have assigned, and this is in nature itself, Gender Roles of Masculine and Feminine energies. Which is an entirely different concept than just being about males and females.

Biological Sex, has to do with the physical body one was born with, or was given at birth. Nature determines that Masculine energy usually has a penis attached that develops sperm to impregnate, Feminine Energy has a vagina that receives the sperm and forms an entirely new human body (in some species, their biology of this is reversed, or not ingrained in their biology at all). This is the process of life, it's a gift. And it's a big reason for why Native Culture hold women as sacred, and a reason for proving why our culture is matrilineal. In our society, the men didn't really own anything, nor had a say at all with feminine women matters such as child birth. The home was owned by the women, made by the man for her, just the same as a womb is the home of the fetus, so is the home a womb to shelter, comfort and soothe the human. The fields were also owned by the women, Just as the uterus is the field in which the man plants his sperm, so is the soil in the field the uterus of the Earth that man plants his seed into to nurture and grow the foods we need to survive.


So you have humans whom were born with a Male body, whom have Feminine Energy within. And a Female body, with Masculine energy within. Within some societies, these people had their own terms for these people....

https://www.ihs.gov/lgbt/health/twospirit/

And they incorporated themselves into both gender roles and positions. Which involves more than just the nature of Sexual Relations with another human of the same sex.

This is how I define the terms of "Cis", "Straight", and "Heterosexual" in relation to their counterpart terms of "Trans", "Gay/Lesbian", and "Homosexual".


Edit: I wanted to add...

Humans are now able to change and manipulate their naturally given body, to mold and match the energies they are projecting. There are also humans whom are fine with being a feminine energy within a man's body, and vice versa. They would be called a "Cis-Gay Man" or a "Cis-Lesbian Women", while the former would be "Trans-Lesbian Women" or a "Trans-Gay Man", as their inner feminine/masculine energies are now identifiable by transitioning into their inner self by manipulating the outer body to reflect that inner self, this is what "Trans" is to me, while "Cis" are those who are happy being that inner masculine/feminine energy in a male/female physical body.

I would identify myself as a "Cis-Bisexual Man" meaning I am a man whom has a male physical body and likes to engage in relationships with other male physical bodies. I am not really attracted intimately much to highly effeminate male physical bodied men, or Trans-Women. Being Bi, if I want a feminine body I will go after one with both Feminine Energies with the female body.

 :corn :corn :hat :hat :coolio :coolio
« Last Edit: October 20, 2021, 12:03:23 PM by Ben_Jamin »
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Online El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30569
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #223 on: October 20, 2021, 12:36:12 PM »
I've read the last two pages, and here we are trying to education each other on the terminology. Terminology that will continue to change, mind you, so what you learn here today may well be offensive by this time next year.*  This is an obviously complex thing, and we're trying to create a complex way of addressing it. Bully for us. I approve. :tup 

The problem is, the more complex something is, the more tolerant you need to be towards others that don't get it, or even those that drop out because of frustration. Niel DeGrasee Tyson has probably never called a student "you fucking idiot!" because he confused leptons with hadrons. Nor would he lay into his butcher for not knowing the fundamentals of string theory. That tolerance doesn't seem to be something the people who care about these complex distinctions are interested in, though. This is where I see a problem, and it's a self-perpetuating issue when that lack of tolerance creates an atmosphere where others prefer to simply drop out rather than learn. You don't accomplish your goal of fomenting a greater understanding by being a dick about it.

Kev's example of calling the gals in the accounting department "ladies" is a dandy. I doubt there are all that many womyn out there that would actually take offense at "ladies," though there are undoubtedly more than a few. How are we to know who they are? Should unsuccessfully trying to interpret what the collective pronoun should be, assuming there even is one any given month, make you a bad person? This is why context is so important, and why its demise has been one of the most destructive things to happen to us. In practice it should be amazingly simple:

A: Hey, which one of you cupcakes wants to come over here and give me a blowjob.
B: Good morning, ladies.

Only one of these is bad, and it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out which is which.


*That's why I tend to just stick with queer. It'll always be acceptable to some and offensive to others, but as long as they keep changing sides it all evens out in the end.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Online Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 36088
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #224 on: October 20, 2021, 01:05:07 PM »
Totally right, Senior Simpson. Being a dick about this stuff never helps. No matter how much Stadler wants us to keep being divisive. The terminology IS in its infancy, and is constantly evolving, changing. I get that can be annoying, but let's be patient and just do our best to keep up. If someone is a dick to you because of it, that really sucks and I'm sorry. As long as people are doing their best, that's all we can ask for. When people start pushing back and intentionally being anti-whatever new terminology is being used, that can be frustrating but still not a reason to be a dick. So let's all learn, grow, evolve, etc. together, and hopefully it'll be a smoother movement going forward.

fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 52780
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #225 on: October 20, 2021, 01:07:56 PM »
My youngest was born female, but now identifies as male.  I've adapted fairly well, but it continues to be a bit of a struggle for my wife.  We try to stay on top of the terminology, but my kid knows that our heart is in the right place.

My youngest's significant other was also born female but now identifies as male.  He's awesome.

They are definitely gay, and I definitely don't care.  They are happy, so I'm happy.  That's all that really matters.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Online cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34207
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #226 on: October 20, 2021, 01:10:41 PM »
The problem is, the more complex something is, the more tolerant you need to be towards others that don't get it, or even those that drop out because of frustration.

To bring this back to the OP, Dave Chappelle admits not knowing the terminology and says he is trying in the special.  I think this is important before we rush to judgment on people. 

Other than a joke I made, I've been on the sideline for this terminology discussion, simply because I am learning too. 

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43005
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #227 on: October 20, 2021, 01:15:20 PM »
I'm just posting to declare that it took me 6 months to discover that Cis meant straight. So we went from straight to hetro to Cis.  ::)

Ugh......

I apologize for those 6 months, but cis doesn't mean straight or hetero. In this context, it simply means that you identify with the sex you were born in, that's all. You can be cis and gay or trans and straight.

Not being sarcastic or snarky, but how would you define "trans" and "straight"?   "Straight" would mean you're attracted to what, the opposite SEX or the opposite GENDER?   I think for me that would be the opposite "sex" - female - so if I was trans, would that make me someone who transitioned to male, to align my gender with my physical attributes, right?   So Catlyn Jenner, who transitioned to female, is dating a woman, that makes her a homosexual, correct? 

(And that aspect is something I have to get my arms around in terms of understanding; if the gender makeup doesn't match the physical sex, but he went 60 years attracted to females, and maintains that, how does that wash with the gender makeup?   I won't lie that I find some of this to be...  hard to accept because it seems like a solution looking for a problem, or rather, an inexact solution to a deeper problem, since it seems overly complicated to assume that he was all these sort of low-probability things all at once.)

I am having a hard time understanding some of what you're saying, but I will answer what I can understand.

1. Caitlyn (as Xe pointed out above me) would then be a trans-woman and lesbian or bi (if she identifies as that).
2. The attraction might be up to that individual. It gets kind of murky and difficult to make into binary definitions, which is of course kind of the point. A lot of this is moving away from binary concepts, which is difficult for many of us who have always lived with binary concepts.

As far as the rest goes, I dunno. I can't quite follow what you're saying on all of it. However, the concept of gender is very nebulous in general and doesn't have strict rigid definitions like sex seems to (though that can often be murky too).
You got most of it. 

I struggle - in my ignorance, and I'll admit that, so others need not jump on me (though Adami can) - with what of this (if any) is something that is a fait accompli and what of this (if any) is something might be addressed and dealt with through a therapeutic approach.  I think it's like anything else - or should I say, I think it's like many things involving our psychology - where there's a group, and there's a percentage (likely a majority) for whom the diagnosis and approach is fairly straightforward, and the solution is also fairly straightforward; align the gender and the sex and move on with life as happily and as productively as possible.   And there's a percentage (likely a minority) for whom the diagnosis and approach is more based in hope and in the belief that they are part of a community, but the solution is not so straightforward.

None of this is meant in a "-phobic" way; none of this is to say that people can't be who they are, but for purposes of understanding, for purposes of implementing these concepts into society at large, there has to be SOME standardization, some uniformity.  And from a practical perspective, the more the BOTH communities extend the olive branches, the better the chance we can find common ground and remove the in-groups and out-groups.  EDIT: this last paragraph and Bart's post overlap in a big way.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2021, 01:20:51 PM by Stadler »

Offline Harmony

  • Posts: 2945
  • Gender: Female
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #228 on: October 20, 2021, 01:18:41 PM »
I admit that I personally struggle with putting pronouns in my handle.  I think mostly it's because I don't get a lot of folks being unable to figure mine out.  But it's also because it seems to be very much a trendy thing and for the most part, I eschew trendy things out of principle.

That said, I have ZERO problem if other people do have pronouns in their bios.  This seems to be an ugly thing happening on social media.  People getting bullied or dismissed simply for having them.  I mean, what difference does it make?  I guess some see it as solely virtue signaling.  I'm in the camp of "live and let live" so long as it doesn't hurt others.
Just another member of Gaia's intramural baseball squad

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43005
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #229 on: October 20, 2021, 01:20:14 PM »
Totally right, Senior Simpson. Being a dick about this stuff never helps. No matter how much Stadler wants us to keep being divisive. The terminology IS in its infancy, and is constantly evolving, changing. I get that can be annoying, but let's be patient and just do our best to keep up. If someone is a dick to you because of it, that really sucks and I'm sorry. As long as people are doing their best, that's all we can ask for. When people start pushing back and intentionally being anti-whatever new terminology is being used, that can be frustrating but still not a reason to be a dick. So let's all learn, grow, evolve, etc. together, and hopefully it'll be a smoother movement going forward.

I think a key part of Bart's post, though, was that it's pretty clear that our "best" isn't enough, and the patience is lacking on BOTH sides in this.   As a straight white male, I'm already got three strikes against me, and if I confuse "trans woman" (is it where you STARTED, or where you END UP?  I think I know the answer, but that's not to say that it's right) that doesn't make me a bigot.  Yet, that's the default for many, on both sides of the argument.

Online cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34207
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #230 on: October 20, 2021, 01:22:39 PM »
I admit that I personally struggle with putting pronouns in my handle.  I think mostly it's because I don't get a lot of folks being unable to figure mine out.  But it's also because it seems to be very much a trendy thing and for the most part, I eschew trendy things out of principle.

That said, I have ZERO problem if other people do have pronouns in their bios.  This seems to be an ugly thing happening on social media.  People getting bullied or dismissed simply for having them.  I mean, what difference does it make?  I guess some see it as solely virtue signaling.  I'm in the camp of "live and let live" so long as it doesn't hurt others.

Exactly how I feel

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43005
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #231 on: October 20, 2021, 01:26:27 PM »
I admit that I personally struggle with putting pronouns in my handle.  I think mostly it's because I don't get a lot of folks being unable to figure mine out.  But it's also because it seems to be very much a trendy thing and for the most part, I eschew trendy things out of principle.

That said, I have ZERO problem if other people do have pronouns in their bios.  This seems to be an ugly thing happening on social media.  People getting bullied or dismissed simply for having them.  I mean, what difference does it make?  I guess some see it as solely virtue signaling.  I'm in the camp of "live and let live" so long as it doesn't hurt others.

We're largely in the same camp, I think.  I won't put them out there, for the two reasons you give, but also, it's not that important to me.  I don't offend easily, and I don't feel defined by that, so I don't feel like I have to control the narrative in that way.   But I do see a danger of that virtue signaling; too often in the identity politics realm if you're not "with us" you're "against us", and I worry about a day where the lack of that designation is taken as a statement in and of itself.    Not everyone is "live and let live so long as it doesn't hurt others", and I'm finding that what I think is "hurt" is shockingly not for others.

Online Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 36088
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #232 on: October 20, 2021, 01:33:01 PM »
Stads, your questions are good. I can't get to them at the moment, but I wanted to acknowledge them. I work till super late tonight so I might not be able to get to them till tomorrow, so if anyone lese with knowledge wants to take a stab at it, feel free and I'll chime in when I got the time.

And I'll jump on you any time.  :biggrin:
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline XeRocks81

  • Posts: 1445
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #233 on: October 20, 2021, 08:28:31 PM »
btw this thing is still going, there was an organized walkout of Netflix employees today https://www.cbsnews.com/news/netflix-walkout-dave-chappelle-transphobia/

Offline XeRocks81

  • Posts: 1445
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dave Chappelle
« Reply #234 on: October 20, 2021, 08:37:18 PM »
despite what that cbs news blurb I just linked said, apparently the letter or manifesto of the employees did NOT include taking down the Chappelle special.  https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/18/22733098/netflix-trans-employees-demands-dave-chappelle-walkout