The Dear Hunter v Act III: Life and Death Live Stream (5/7 and 5/14/24)

[Kosmo]

Ye, but Act II is better l0l

[ZBomber]

Act II
Act I
Act III

But let's be honest, they are all pretty super cool guys.

[Kosmo]

Act II
TCS
Act III
Act I

But it's pretty difficult to place TCS in there with the acts..

[ZeppelinDT]

Starting to get into Act II after getting pretty well acquainted with Act I and TCS.

Then onto Act III soon.

So how are you digging Act II?  Are you enjoying the story aspect of it too?

[Jamesman42]

Starting to get into Act II after getting pretty well acquainted with Act I and TCS.

Then onto Act III soon.

So how are you digging Act II?  Are you enjoying the story aspect of it too?

I've yet to delve into the story (which I just need to read the lyrics to in order album/song-wise, right?). I probably will at some point, but storyline albums don't really interest me. The music is great though!

But yeah, Act II is a really good continuation of Act I, gaining more character and balls IMO.

[The King in Crimson]

Act I
Act III
Act II

I can't really compare tCS to the rest. It's just too different.

[ZeppelinDT]

Starting to get into Act II after getting pretty well acquainted with Act I and TCS.

Then onto Act III soon.

So how are you digging Act II?  Are you enjoying the story aspect of it too?

I've yet to delve into the story (which I just need to read the lyrics to in order album/song-wise, right?). I probably will at some point, but storyline albums don't really interest me. The music is great though!

But yeah, Act II is a really good continuation of Act I, gaining more character and balls IMO.

Well... the story line is kinda tough to work out by just reading the lyrics.  I think I posted a pretty concise summary somewhere earlier in this thread though.  It's actually quite an engaging story.

[Jamesman42]

I'll have to find it! Luckily I do 50PPP for threads.

[ZeppelinDT]

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=290.msg894723#msg894723

[Nick]

Black/Red
Act III
Act I
Act II
Rest of TCS

[Jamesman42]

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=290.msg894723#msg894723

Wow.

I...

Wow.

That certainly does a lot to the music I have perceived. That is awesome!

[Kosmo]

I've never read the story, I made my own conclusions and some were spot on and some way off. But yeah, that's such a cool story and it does add to the music.

[Ravenheart]

So I needed a break from my normal music fixes and put Act I on, which was my first listen of TDH since, like, last summer.

Everything really clicked. It was a delightful experience, and I think I'm going to go ahead and continue with Acts II, III, and TCS.

slowpoke.jpg

[ZBomber]

So I needed a break from my normal music fixes and put Act I on, which was my first listen of TDH since, like, last summer.

Everything really clicked. It was a delightful experience, and I think I'm going to go ahead and continue with Acts II, III, and TCS.

slowpoke.jpg

  COME TO MA AND SEE THE COLOR SPECTRUM SHOW WITH ME

[Jamesman42]

I'm starting to really connect with TDH. It's a slow growth.

[Ravenheart]

So I needed a break from my normal music fixes and put Act I on, which was my first listen of TDH since, like, last summer.

Everything really clicked. It was a delightful experience, and I think I'm going to go ahead and continue with Acts II, III, and TCS.

slowpoke.jpg

  COME TO MA AND SEE THE COLOR SPECTRUM SHOW WITH ME

I'M ON MY WAY MI AMOR 

[Gadough]

Hmm. Talked to the guys I'm going with about it and one backed out, but the other still wants to go. I'll consider it.

Ok fuck it I changed my mind I'm totally going.

[Super Dude]

A defense of the song 'No God:'

I was just listening to it and latched onto the line, "Just a small intuition not to do what all the bad ones did." I remember around release a lot of religious adherents on the forum were not very thrilled at the idea of the song, and I believe the reasoning was that it seemed to convey, "I learned how to treat others and be a good person on my own, and I didn't need religion to show me the way," and it seemed like it rejected an apparent claim by organized religions to possess a monopoly on moral instruction.

I propose a new interpretation: not believing in God/adhering to religion does not excuse me or anyone from maintaining an upright and moral character. In other words, the speaker might not merely be saying that he doesn't need to believe in God/fear eternal punishment to be and act morally (sorry for the double negative, hope you guys understood that), but indeed that unbelief doesn't hold up as a way to "plead ignorance" or wave away that justification as nonsense; fear of divine retribution for sin should not be the only consequence motivating people to strive to do good in their lives. We should all try to just be decent human beings to one another, and not sitting in on religious lessons about good and bad doesn't preclude you making these distinctions based on life experiences. Religion gives structure, purpose, and meaning to behaving so and there's nothing wrong with finding meaning in your life and actions in the context of faith. But not accepting or agreeing with that attribution of cosmic purpose to moral instruction or the prescribed consequences doesn't render knowing and heeding the difference between right and wrong as meaningless or that you're absolved from seeing any meaning in those moral lessons.

Basically, religion shouldn't have to threaten us with an eternity in Hell to motivate us to just be good people, nor should it hinge on agreeing with the way religion treats/justifies those moral precepts. The value of upholding a moral character is inherent, not something you choose to acknowledge or not based on faith or lack thereof.

[skydivingninja]

Yep that's pretty much what the song's about.  I share basically the same opinion.

[Gadough]

Hmm. Talked to the guys I'm going with about it and one backed out, but the other still wants to go. I'll consider it.

Ok fuck it I changed my mind I'm totally going.

Nevermind, not happening due to forces out of my control. Bleh.

[ZeppelinDT]

A defense of the song 'No God:'

I was just listening to it and latched onto the line, "Just a small intuition not to do what all the bad ones did." I remember around release a lot of religious adherents on the forum were not very thrilled at the idea of the song, and I believe the reasoning was that it seemed to convey, "I learned how to treat others and be a good person on my own, and I didn't need religion to show me the way," and it seemed like it rejected an apparent claim by organized religions to possess a monopoly on moral instruction.

I propose a new interpretation: not believing in God/adhering to religion does not excuse me or anyone from maintaining an upright and moral character. In other words, the speaker might not merely be saying that he doesn't need to believe in God/fear eternal punishment to be and act morally (sorry for the double negative, hope you guys understood that), but indeed that unbelief doesn't hold up as a way to "plead ignorance" or wave away that justification as nonsense; fear of divine retribution for sin should not be the only consequence motivating people to strive to do good in their lives. We should all try to just be decent human beings to one another, and not sitting in on religious lessons about good and bad doesn't preclude you making these distinctions based on life experiences. Religion gives structure, purpose, and meaning to behaving so and there's nothing wrong with finding meaning in your life and actions in the context of faith. But not accepting or agreeing with that attribution of cosmic purpose to moral instruction or the prescribed consequences doesn't render knowing and heeding the difference between right and wrong as meaningless or that you're absolved from seeing any meaning in those moral lessons.

Basically, religion shouldn't have to threaten us with an eternity in Hell to motivate us to just be good people, nor should it hinge on agreeing with the way religion treats/justifies those moral precepts. The value of upholding a moral character is inherent, not something you choose to acknowledge or not based on faith or lack thereof.

Tbh, I don't think it's got a particular "message" either way.  My take has always been that it's just a personal song where Casey is expressing where he himself got his own sense of morality from.

[antigoon]

I think that song's beautiful. I always interpreted it to be what Zep said, but SD's analysis is certainly a valid one.

[Jamesman42]

You could even say it is a...super one lul

[voncorn]

-

[Zantera]

I really like Andy Hull's vocals on the Red EP songs, but I can't friggin' stand Manchester Orchestra. Am I the only one like this?

Sounds weird considering Manchester Orchestra isn't far from The Dear Hunter soundwise, at least not the Red EP.
I haven't checked out the rest of Manchester Orchestra's albums, but Simple Math was really good.

[skydivingninja]

I really like Andy Hull's vocals on the Red EP songs, but I can't friggin' stand Manchester Orchestra. Am I the only one like this?

If he's the super nasally one on "A Curse of Cynicism" then I am really annoyed by that voice and have no desire to check out Manchester because of it. 

[antigoon]

You're missing out!

[ZeppelinDT]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaMiVDZu_T4&ob=av2e

[ZeppelinDT]

If you use Spotify, subscribe to this playlist!

https://open.spotify.com/user/zeppelindt/playlist/0uPLhda1UYReYBFPWgS6vE

[lordxizor]

Basically, religion shouldn't have to threaten us with an eternity in Hell to motivate us to just be good people, nor should it hinge on agreeing with the way religion treats/justifies those moral precepts. The value of upholding a moral character is inherent, not something you choose to acknowledge or not based on faith or lack thereof.

While this is true and may well be what Casey was going for, I still feel like, regardless of intent, the message came across as a little smug and anti-religion. If he meant it to be a song about how he derived his morals from his parents and upbringing, then just leave God out of it. If God played no role in his moral structure, why even mention Him?

[Jamesman42]

If you use Spotify, subscribe to this playlist!

https://open.spotify.com/user/zeppelindt/playlist/0uPLhda1UYReYBFPWgS6vE

Subscribed

[antigoon]

Basically, religion shouldn't have to threaten us with an eternity in Hell to motivate us to just be good people, nor should it hinge on agreeing with the way religion treats/justifies those moral precepts. The value of upholding a moral character is inherent, not something you choose to acknowledge or not based on faith or lack thereof.

While this is true and may well be what Casey was going for, I still feel like, regardless of intent, the message came across as a little smug and anti-religion. If he meant it to be a song about how he derived his morals from his parents and upbringing, then just leave God out of it. If God played no role in his moral structure, why even mention Him?

It would have to be a completely different song if he "just le[ft] God out of it." I think it's great as-is and I don't think it comes off as smug at all.

[lordxizor]

It would have to be a completely different song if he "just le[ft] God out of it." I think it's great as-is and I don't think it comes off as smug at all.

To me, mentioning God as he does shifts the focus from "My parents taught to me to be a good person" to "I don't need God, here's why..." I understand many (particularly the non-religious) would have no problem with this. We've been through this before and don't need to go through it again, so I'll leave it at that.

[ZeppelinDT]

I think reading it as an "anti-God" song or something is reading a bit much into it.  I think it's more like "some people get their morals from God, some get them from other sources.  I got mine from another source."

I've actually spoken to Casey about this topic before (not in the context of this song, but religion more generally) and, to paraphrase, he basically describes himself as too much of a believer to be an atheist and too much of a sceptic to be a devoted believer.  I think he probably best falls into the category of "people who believe in SOME sort of higher power, but who can't identify specifically what that is".

[ZeppelinDT]

Spread the TDH Love.

Do this:  https://lakeandtheriver.com/index.php?showtopic=2924