The Walking Dead, Season 2.

[GuineaPig]

Because Zook requested it:

Eh, it all comes down to taste.  I'm certainly not universally (or even mostly) negative about TV - I'm on record as saying that as a medium, television is far outstripping movies in terms of quality.  There are a lot of great TV shows; The Walking Dead just isn't one of them, imo.

How would your ideal Walking Dead be? Post it in the season 2 thread. Give a summary of all the episodes, but how you would have had them play out. This is 40% of your final grade. This assignment is due tomorrow. Extra credit if you turn it in early. Good luck, class dismissed.

My ideal version of The Walking Dead is a clean slate.  Group just kills each other or something, or zombies tear them to shreds, or they get food poisoning from uncooked chicken.  Maybe Daryl survives, because he deserves it.  Bad actors with bad accents get kicked to the curb. 

Then the show goes on hiatus until the production and promotion of Breaking Bad ceases in July 2012.  Vince Gilligan and the entire Breaking Bad writing and production crew gets transferred over.  They come up with a new set of characters, and run from there, with no regard for the source material.  It would be amazing.

[MykeHavoc]

Finally caught up. The budget cuts show. This season is much less exploratory. It tends to help to watch a few episodes at a time, because as of now, very little happens with each one individually. I certainly am still enjoying it though. Its the only show I keep up with currently.

[Zook]

Because Zook requested it:

Eh, it all comes down to taste.  I'm certainly not universally (or even mostly) negative about TV - I'm on record as saying that as a medium, television is far outstripping movies in terms of quality.  There are a lot of great TV shows; The Walking Dead just isn't one of them, imo.

How would your ideal Walking Dead be? Post it in the season 2 thread. Give a summary of all the episodes, but how you would have had them play out. This is 40% of your final grade. This assignment is due tomorrow. Extra credit if you turn it in early. Good luck, class dismissed.

My ideal version of The Walking Dead is a clean slate.  Group just kills each other or something, or zombies tear them to shreds, or they get food poisoning from uncooked chicken.  Maybe Daryl survives, because he deserves it.  Bad actors with bad accents get kicked to the curb. 

Then the show goes on hiatus until the production and promotion of Breaking Bad ceases in July 2012.  Vince Gilligan and the entire Breaking Bad writing and production crew gets transferred over.  They come up with a new set of characters, and run from there, with no regard for the source material.  It would be amazing.

But I like the other characters... Well, some of them.

[MykeHavoc]

Because Zook requested it:

Eh, it all comes down to taste.  I'm certainly not universally (or even mostly) negative about TV - I'm on record as saying that as a medium, television is far outstripping movies in terms of quality.  There are a lot of great TV shows; The Walking Dead just isn't one of them, imo.

How would your ideal Walking Dead be? Post it in the season 2 thread. Give a summary of all the episodes, but how you would have had them play out. This is 40% of your final grade. This assignment is due tomorrow. Extra credit if you turn it in early. Good luck, class dismissed.

My ideal version of The Walking Dead is a clean slate.  Group just kills each other or something, or zombies tear them to shreds, or they get food poisoning from uncooked chicken.  Maybe Daryl survives, because he deserves it.  Bad actors with bad accents get kicked to the curb. 

Then the show goes on hiatus until the production and promotion of Breaking Bad ceases in July 2012.  Vince Gilligan and the entire Breaking Bad writing and production crew gets transferred over.  They come up with a new set of characters, and run from there, with no regard for the source material.  It would be amazing.

But I like the other characters... Well, some of them.

Isn't that the point of a show like this? To have characters you like, dislike and represent the gray?
If everyone was instantly likable all the time, you'd have Friends.

[Zook]

I wasn't the biggest fan of Phoebe.

[GuineaPig]

Because Zook requested it:

Eh, it all comes down to taste.  I'm certainly not universally (or even mostly) negative about TV - I'm on record as saying that as a medium, television is far outstripping movies in terms of quality.  There are a lot of great TV shows; The Walking Dead just isn't one of them, imo.

How would your ideal Walking Dead be? Post it in the season 2 thread. Give a summary of all the episodes, but how you would have had them play out. This is 40% of your final grade. This assignment is due tomorrow. Extra credit if you turn it in early. Good luck, class dismissed.

My ideal version of The Walking Dead is a clean slate.  Group just kills each other or something, or zombies tear them to shreds, or they get food poisoning from uncooked chicken.  Maybe Daryl survives, because he deserves it.  Bad actors with bad accents get kicked to the curb. 

Then the show goes on hiatus until the production and promotion of Breaking Bad ceases in July 2012.  Vince Gilligan and the entire Breaking Bad writing and production crew gets transferred over.  They come up with a new set of characters, and run from there, with no regard for the source material.  It would be amazing.

But I like the other characters... Well, some of them.

Isn't that the point of a show like this? To have characters you like, dislike and represent the gray?
If everyone was instantly likable all the time, you'd have Friends.

There's a difference between "good" characters - ones that are morally upright - and good characters, that are well written, have coherent motivations, are provided good dialogue, and are well performed.

The Walking Dead is just absolutely blown away in quality by its network-mates Mad Men and Breaking Bad.  The depth of characterization and the excellent storytelling makes them infinitely more compelling regardless of whether you've got zombies walking around.  The latter has the two best written and best performed characters on TV, and they're far from what would be considered "good."

[MykeHavoc]

Those other shows have a few years on TWD. Give it time. If in three year we're still having this conversation, then I'll side with you

[Chino]

I was watching the latest episode for a second time last night, and a thought came to mind. Before Carl got shot, that entire episode heavily emphasized on god, especially Rick's prayer for a sign being followed up with the shooting. Maybe this entire farm ordeal was part of gods answer to Rick, kind of fucked up, but still the help Rick needed. Like, maybe Carl needed to be shot in order for the group to find the farm, which in turn will lead to the finding of the little girl. It wouldn't surprise me if there was some underlying nugget there that many may overlook.

[GuineaPig]

Those other shows have a few years on TWD. Give it time. If in three year we're still having this conversation, then I'll side with you

Some dramas up their game, I suppose.  Breaking Bad went from very good, to fantastic, to second-best TV drama in history from seasons 1-3.  Justified went from a very good quasi-procedural to an excellent serialized drama from seasons 1 to 2. 

But I just don't see the same promise in The Walking Dead.  It's lacking an excellent lead character (and actor) the other shows built around.  There hasn't been anything approaching the quality of the pilot.  It is incoherent in its characterization and pacing.

I could completely be wrong, but it would take a massive uptick in quality for The Walking Dead to match its network-mates.  It's possible, I suppose.  Justified provides a good rubric: focus on the most interesting characters, marginalize the others, provide a compelling season-long plot arc which changes the way they interact.

[Chino]

Those other shows have a few years on TWD. Give it time. If in three year we're still having this conversation, then I'll side with you

Some dramas up their game, I suppose.  Breaking Bad went from very good, to fantastic, to second-best TV drama in history from seasons 1-3.  Justified went from a very good quasi-procedural to an excellent serialized drama from seasons 1 to 2. 

But I just don't see the same promise in The Walking Dead.  It's lacking an excellent lead character (and actor) the other shows built around.  There hasn't been anything approaching the quality of the pilot.  It is incoherent in its characterization and pacing.

I could completely be wrong, but it would take a massive uptick in quality for The Walking Dead to match its network-mates.  It's possible, I suppose.  Justified provides a good rubric: focus on the most interesting characters, marginalize the others, provide a compelling season-long plot arc which changes the way they interact.

I like the fact that there isn't really a main character. All the characters (with the exception of Rick and Lori, maybe) are on a level playing field. They can all be killed off at any time and not have a huge impact on the plot or cast. I like that suspense of not being certain whether or not someone is safe. Last episode when Daryl had the zombie ripping apart his shoe, I was caught completely off guard. I assumed he couldn't be killed off, and in the span of a second I was convinced he was doomed.


In terms of this season being slow, it may not have a huge impact on the series as a whole. Prison Break was one of my favorite seires of all time. Season 1 was amazing and the beginning of 2 was great. The end of season 2 and the first half of season three were pretty boring, but were crucial in the plot development later on.

[GuineaPig]

Those other shows have a few years on TWD. Give it time. If in three year we're still having this conversation, then I'll side with you

Some dramas up their game, I suppose.  Breaking Bad went from very good, to fantastic, to second-best TV drama in history from seasons 1-3.  Justified went from a very good quasi-procedural to an excellent serialized drama from seasons 1 to 2. 

But I just don't see the same promise in The Walking Dead.  It's lacking an excellent lead character (and actor) the other shows built around.  There hasn't been anything approaching the quality of the pilot.  It is incoherent in its characterization and pacing.

I could completely be wrong, but it would take a massive uptick in quality for The Walking Dead to match its network-mates.  It's possible, I suppose.  Justified provides a good rubric: focus on the most interesting characters, marginalize the others, provide a compelling season-long plot arc which changes the way they interact.

I like the fact that there isn't really a main character. All the characters (with the exception of Rick and Lori, maybe) are on a level playing field. They can all be killed off at any time and not have a huge impact on the plot or cast. I like that suspense of not being certain whether or not someone is safe. Last episode when Daryl had the zombie ripping apart his shoe, I was caught completely off guard. I assumed he couldn't be killed off, and in the span of a second I was convinced he was doomed.

Not having a lead character would be all well and good if there was a strong ensemble.  The problem is, the supporting characters suck.  The show doesn't have a female character worth a fig, the only person who ever acts like he has a head on his shoulders is Daryl, and the characters in general aren't deep enough or written well enough to make any dramatic stuff the writers attempt anything more than melodrama.

The Wire this ain't.

[gmillerdrake]

I appreciate the fact that the series is taking a 'realistic' approach at what life would be like in that apocalyptic scenario. I like the fact that they essentially are going day to day...not weeks or months having taken place between each episode. Sure that can get a bit 'boring' but I disagree that the characters suck. I am not expecting (early) DeNero or Pachino performances here. Besides, I think that all of the actors/actresses have done an above average job. There have been scenes where I could 'feel' thier emotion. It's not thier fault if the writing could use improvment, but I haven't been too disappointed with that aspect either. I guess some of us have higer standards than others. All I ask from the programs I watch is that I stay interested, I am entertained and intrigued. TWD covers that for me.
  Sure I'd love a good Dawn of the Dead type episode where it's nothing but running, chasing, killing and so on, but I understand that now that they've been granted a third season that they are 'setting' things up. If it is true that they are going to a soundstage shoot for the majority of upcoming episodes then I envision that may give them more of a chance to throw 'adventure' episodes at us.
  The only thing I ask out of the remainder of the season is that at least one of the 'regular' group members get killed/die. Just to keep things honest. I'd prefer it not to be Daryl....but ANY other character is open to me.

[Fluffy Lothario]

I'm hugely critical of the writing and acting in TV shows. Until recently, I probably could have named all the shows I would like to someday own on one hand, because for years, I found television so bad, I barely bothered to watch anything at all.

I have no major problems with the writing or acting on the Walking Dead. The dialogue is a bit kitschy at times, but none of the things that make almost all TV completely unwatchable to me are present, or at least certainly not to a damaging extent (constant oh-so-hip one liners and similar completely predictable/bullshit dialogue devices, mini-plots for each episode which are completely inconsequential to the overall story arch, artificial as fuck cliffhangers inserted at the expense of the quality of the story, the general feeling that they're dragging out threads in the plot to a point far beyond necessary and desperately spreading their material as thin as possible to get as many episodes and seasons in as they can on a limited number of characters and resulting limited number of feasible relationships, tensions, situations, again, completely at the expense of a well-written plot, etc), and I think they're doing a good job of sketching out so many characters in a reasonable amount of depth without making it feel obligatory or like it's weighing the show down. And there have only been a few characters that I felt were significantly poorly acted in this show. The black woman (T-Dog's wife?) in the first season was bad. The sister killed off in 1.4 was average. And I can't think of any others. The acting here is light years beyond most television, IMO.

Maybe I have such abysmally low expectations of TV shows that this show seems better to me than it is, but if that is the case, I don't really care, because at the end of the day, I like it.

[GuineaPig]

FL, have you seen many other cable TV dramas?  Because it's a whole other level of quality.  AMC, for example, has aired six scripted dramas.  The Walking Dead is probably fourth or fifth in terms of quality.  I haven't decided whether Hell on Wheels is going to pull it together.

[Fluffy Lothario]

Oh, I acknowledge there will be better shows out there than this which I haven't seen because I've been turned off from TV for so long. I know the names people throw around (Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Deadwood, The Wire), and I was recently fortunate enough to catch five episodes of Boardwalk Empire in a row. But I really can't see them numbering very highly. I've seen people refer to a golden age in television between those several cable channels, and this is the fourth or fifth best show at the moment? Is that really that bad?

Also, one inexcusable wtf moment in this show which people have mentioned and I agree on was the "if we get this zombie out of the well, we can drink the water again" thing. Forgot about that one in my last post.

[GuineaPig]

The Walking Dead isn't the fourth or fifth best show at the moment.  I said it was the fourth or fifth best show (out of six) that AMC has created.  This list is from 2010, but it shows the sheer amount of quality on television right now.  You'll notice a certain show is missing (though it did make the consolation list). 

[gmillerdrake]

  I haven't decided whether Hell on Wheels is going to pull it together.

Same here. I want it to work and am giving it a good shot...but.....

[TempusVox]

Pig...We get it. You don't like the Walking Dead. Many of us do. Sorry we don't share the same enlightened tastes of television drama that you do, but we get the point. It's not "BreakingDexi-Just-LostMen" or whatever. Here's a surprise...many of us really like this show, and hope it survives. And yes, we've all seen those other shows, and still feel that way. You don't have to come in here and shit all over the show or try and make everyone feel like they've been living in a cardboard box their entire lives.

[Dimitrius]

If it's TV or movies, GP has a better opinion than you.

[Zook]

Because Zook requested it:

Eh, it all comes down to taste.  I'm certainly not universally (or even mostly) negative about TV - I'm on record as saying that as a medium, television is far outstripping movies in terms of quality.  There are a lot of great TV shows; The Walking Dead just isn't one of them, imo.

How would your ideal Walking Dead be? Post it in the season 2 thread. Give a summary of all the episodes, but how you would have had them play out. This is 40% of your final grade. This assignment is due tomorrow. Extra credit if you turn it in early. Good luck, class dismissed.

My ideal version of The Walking Dead is a clean slate.  Group just kills each other or something, or zombies tear them to shreds, or they get food poisoning from uncooked chicken.  Maybe Daryl survives, because he deserves it.  Bad actors with bad accents get kicked to the curb. 

That doesn't really cut it. Same characters, same plot, just what differences would you make with the existing story to make it better starting with Episode 1.

Example: Rick should have done this instead of that and so on. And no need to mention the well scene, because I'm pretty sure everyone on earth thought that scene was retarded.

[TempusVox]

If it's TV or movies, GP has a better opinion than you.

Really Dimitirus?? What are you the president of his fan club or something?? 

Last time I checked everyone is entitled to an opinion, but coming in to a thread that's clearly a discussion for people who are watching the 2nd season of the show, and basically telling those people they don't know real entertainment is not really good form IN MY OPINION.

[Dimitrius]

Your sarcasm meter is broke, Tempus.

[TempusVox]

Your sarcasm meter is broke, Tempus.

   Hmmm...Sarcasm? Your sarcasm detector seems broken to me. 

[Dimitrius]

I don't know, it's branded ACME. Is that a good brand?

[TempusVox]

Probably better than mine. I got my sarcasm meter at Hammacher Schlemmer...or was it the Tinder Box at the mall? Either one, I think I probably overpaid for it.

[chknptpie]

Example: Rick should have done this instead of that and so on. And no need to mention the well scene, because I'm pretty sure everyone on earth thought that scene was retarded.

I may be taking this comment out of context or something, but I actually thought the well scene was particularly interesting. I could see me and a group of people doing the exact same thing in a similar situation.

[7StringedBeast]

What?  The well scene was pretty horrible.  They sent one of their own down into the well for no reason.  No one was going to drink that water.  Who in their right mind would drink water that a bleeding zombie has been in for god knows how long?  That whole scene was silly.  The only point to it, is that it was apparently foreshadowing what is about to happen on the farm.

[chknptpie]

I guess my friends and I would be stupid enough to try to salvage whatever available water we could... which is what I think that scene was.

[Dimitrius]

They said right before that that the farm has 5 wells, so why would anyone care if ONE had a zombie in it? It was just stupid.

[gmillerdrake]

What?  The well scene was pretty horrible.  They sent one of their own down into the well for no reason.  No one was going to drink that water.  Who in their right mind would drink water that a bleeding zombie has been in for god knows how long?  That whole scene was silly.  The only point to it, is that it was apparently foreshadowing what is about to happen on the farm.

For as silly and pointless as it was to try and salvage a well where a walker had been bathing for a month or whatever....that scene actually did reveal something. We saw the farmers daughter get very upset at the brutal killing of the walker....and Glenn mistakenly took her being that upset as her not being used to the brutality of the killing or even having to kill. When in all likelyhood she was upset because she knew who that man was. Maybe it was her dad or uncle or something.
  Even though some of the scenes are a bit less exciting and memorable than others, I have to think that the majority of the scenes 'mean' something....even if it is merely a tid bit.


Exept for that scene where Dale ventures off by himself up the highway for a moment. It was about a 10 second scene and meant nothing.

[MykeHavoc]

What?  The well scene was pretty horrible.  They sent one of their own down into the well for no reason.  No one was going to drink that water.  Who in their right mind would drink water that a bleeding zombie has been in for god knows how long?  That whole scene was silly.  The only point to it, is that it was apparently foreshadowing what is about to happen on the farm.

It was an excuse for a scare and a great special effect. I'm content with the enjoyment I got out of it.

[TempusVox]

I actually think the well scene was a gratuitous attempt tp add some gore and suspense to an otherwise pretty stagnant episode.  The logic involved in the "fishing" excercise was pretty ridiculous. I mean, you could tell me we filtered that water 600,000 times and boiled it on the surface of the sun, and I would NEVER drink or bathe in it. Ever. Now, if someone had said, "Animals seem to be immune to the illness, so we need to fish this walker out so we have a water source for the horses to drink", then I would have bought it. The fact that they seemed to think that the water would be okay so long as no blood was spilled from the trapped deader made NO sense to me, and actually distracted from the episode for me a little. It seemed like that bit of writing was done hastily and without much thought. It wouldn't be a logical action for survivors of the zombie uprising to make.

[Phoenix87x]

I actually think the well scene was a gratuitous attempt tp add some gore and suspense to an otherwise pretty stagnant episode.  The logic involved in the "fishing" excercise was pretty ridiculous. I mean, you could tell me we filtered that water 600,000 times and boiled it on the surface of the sun, and I would NEVER drink or bathe in it. Ever. Now, if someone had said, "Animals seem to be immune to the illness, so we need to fish this walker out so we have a water source for the horses to drink", then I would have bought it. The fact that they seemed to think that the water would be okay so long as no blood was spilled from the trapped deader made NO sense to me, and actually distracted from the episode for me a little. It seemed like that bit of writing was done hastily and without much thought. It wouldn't be a logical action for survivors of the zombie uprising to make.

This exactly. Them thinking the water would have been drinkable has been really bugging me since watching the episode. Each episode seems to introduce something that doesn't logically make sense, such as the zombies in the barn making no attempt to break through the door or any noise what so ever, and it really, really annoys me to see that the farmhouse has full electricity and warm running water. This is driving me crazy. It makes it very hard for me to suspend my disbelief.

This is supposed to be a zombie apocalypse and it feels like they are on holiday in the countryside.

[GuineaPig]

Because Zook requested it:

Eh, it all comes down to taste.  I'm certainly not universally (or even mostly) negative about TV - I'm on record as saying that as a medium, television is far outstripping movies in terms of quality.  There are a lot of great TV shows; The Walking Dead just isn't one of them, imo.

How would your ideal Walking Dead be? Post it in the season 2 thread. Give a summary of all the episodes, but how you would have had them play out. This is 40% of your final grade. This assignment is due tomorrow. Extra credit if you turn it in early. Good luck, class dismissed.

My ideal version of The Walking Dead is a clean slate.  Group just kills each other or something, or zombies tear them to shreds, or they get food poisoning from uncooked chicken.  Maybe Daryl survives, because he deserves it.  Bad actors with bad accents get kicked to the curb. 

That doesn't really cut it. Same characters, same plot, just what differences would you make with the existing story to make it better starting with Episode 1.

Example: Rick should have done this instead of that and so on. And no need to mention the well scene, because I'm pretty sure everyone on earth thought that scene was retarded.

Why the same characters?  The characters (and the dialogue) are the worst part of it.  The reason people complain about "slow" episodes is because the writers don't have the ability to drive episodes solely by developments within the group itself.

My complaints about the plot are a distant third when compared to the dialogue and characters.  Yeah, sure, there are some pretty obvious stalling tactics thrown in, but they wouldn't be so galling if the writers could delay well.  Plenty of shows utilize them.  Yeah, there are some contrivances (TempusVox just outlined a pretty obvious one) and a couple of baffling decisions, but overall the plot isn't what's pulling things down.

[TempusVox]

@Phoenix87x --Well I can see them having a generator on the farm, or even wind power for that matter. Most farms have something like this. But as I've said before, it seems were trying to show us a walker this season only as a means to keep us going. I really can't wait until the farm scenario is finally played out. I think we'll see this go on for two more episodes, sadly.

I still love the show, and the premise and the possibilities that still exist, and I'm still really, really hopeful.