Obama is not a good speaker and doesn't seem that intellegent

[TL]

On a sidenote, kirksnosehair, don't worry, your post wasn't ignored. It was a well thought out, well articulated post; the kind that adds to the discussion, and is highly valued around here.

[Dark Castle]

On a sidenote, kirksnosehair, don't worry, your post wasn't ignored. It was a well thought out, well articulated post; the kind that adds to the discussion, and is highly valued around here.

[snapple]

This is the system we have now.  A bastardized version of what the framers really intended, and for all of the blather and bluster you hear from the current crop of Republican candidates about "The Constitution" none of them seem to give a rat's ass about the fact that they have now resorted to filibustering any and all legislation brought to the floor by Democrats for the sole purpose of maintaining the status quo so that nothing will improve, which, obviously, hurts the incumbent President.

Barry, it is completely worth noting that it WAS like that from the very beginning. I don't need to explain it to you, as I know you are far more wise than I am (I am not being sarcastic) that things tend to look better on paper. Have you ever heard of John Jay? If you look into early American politics, you'll see they were just as, if not more, vicious than we are now.

[livehard]

Livehard, you're allowed to disagree with the President and the direction he's taking. You're allowed to disagree with and dislike his policies. You obviously have the right to voice opposing views and criticisms. It's a democracy, which thrives on differing points of view.
There's a way to approach this though.

When you just keep harping on meaningless talking points (like the whole community organizer thing), people are just going to tune you out. If you go on about superficial details instead of actual policy you disagree with, no one will take you seriously. Continuing to harp on things like Obama being a community organizer (which actually is a legitimate thing), or not having worked a day in his life when he clearly has, rather than voicing valid policy criticism (and there are many valid criticisms regarding the current administration), you come off as unintelligent, and not worth listening to.

Show us that this isn't true. Bring up some policy positions that you disagree with, and let's have a real, intelligent, mature debate. Even if neither side budges, it will be a much more enriching experience.

But this thread is about how community organizing is a joke.  Or that his speaking skills are sub-par.

[Super Dude]

Well folks, that's as good an indication as any that this thread is destined to go nowhere.

[livehard]

Well folks, that's as good an indication as any that this thread is destined to go nowhere.

Awesome, ok take care, cya later.

Everyone else: Who was paying for his community organizing? I really would like to know exactly how this organization worked and was funded...

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Send EPICVIEW a message.  He'll be happy to tell you all about it.

[livehard]

hes a community organizer?

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

No, EPICVIEW is not a very big fan of Obama, and can likely come up with any piece of anti-Obama information you could ever ask for.  For the record, I don't mean that in a bad way.  EPICVIEW is an extremely cool guy, just REALLY doesn't like Obama, which is fine.

[kirksnosehair]

This is the system we have now.  A bastardized version of what the framers really intended, and for all of the blather and bluster you hear from the current crop of Republican candidates about "The Constitution" none of them seem to give a rat's ass about the fact that they have now resorted to filibustering any and all legislation brought to the floor by Democrats for the sole purpose of maintaining the status quo so that nothing will improve, which, obviously, hurts the incumbent President.

Barry, it is completely worth noting that it WAS like that from the very beginning. I don't need to explain it to you, as I know you are far more wise than I am (I am not being sarcastic) that things tend to look better on paper. Have you ever heard of John Jay? If you look into early American politics, you'll see they were just as, if not more, vicious than we are now.

Sure, that's not what I'm referring to, what I'm referring to is the (ab)use of the filibuster and secret holds to create the necessity of a 60 vote super-majority just to get an up or down vote on legislation and appointees.   Read this testimony, it explains what I'm talking about, it's just one page.

[livehard]

No, EPICVIEW is not a very big fan of Obama, and can likely come up with any piece of anti-Obama information you could ever ask for.  For the record, I don't mean that in a bad way.  EPICVIEW is an extremely cool guy, just REALLY doesn't like Obama, which is fine.

Ohhh you must be a little confused.  I was wondering what the hell a community organizer does, and how they get paid... No biggie tho

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Odd.  The topic and title have to do with Obama, you said:

Who was paying for his community organizing?

Sounds like you're asking about how Obama got paid for being a CO, otherwise, who does the word "his" refer to?  I suggest the EV could provide you some answers, and now I'm the confused one?  WTF?

[Perpetual Change]

Send EPICVIEW a message.  He'll be happy to tell you all about it.

Next time he remembers to clean out his inbox, anyway 

[livehard]

Odd.  The topic and title have to do with Obama, you said:

Who was paying for his community organizing?

Sounds like you're asking about how Obama got paid for being a CO, otherwise, who does the word "his" refer to?  I suggest the EV could provide you some answers, and now I'm the confused one?  WTF?

Ohhh i see ok you are a little confused.  Allow me to elaborate.  I mentioned I wasn't impressed by being a community organizer.  I further elaborated my thoughts about it being a BS job by wondering out-loud as to the specifics of the job.  I.e. what was he (Obama) paid, who paid him, what exactly he (Obama) did.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I'm confident that you aren't trying to be, but I'll politely mention that by continuing to tell me that Im confused, then walking me step by step through your thought process as though I were a third grader, it comes off slightly condescending.  Sorry I misunderstood.

[antigoon]

It was probably just a bunch of minorities or something. Who cares about them right?

[livehard]

It was probably just a bunch of minorities or something. Who cares about them right?

Ugh exactly my point.  Im so glad you brought up the minority part... Thats what I was really trying to say...

[kirksnosehair]

Livehard, you're allowed to disagree with the President and the direction he's taking. You're allowed to disagree with and dislike his policies. You obviously have the right to voice opposing views and criticisms. It's a democracy, which thrives on differing points of view.
There's a way to approach this though.

When you just keep harping on meaningless talking points (like the whole community organizer thing), people are just going to tune you out. If you go on about superficial details instead of actual policy you disagree with, no one will take you seriously. Continuing to harp on things like Obama being a community organizer (which actually is a legitimate thing), or not having worked a day in his life when he clearly has, rather than voicing valid policy criticism (and there are many valid criticisms regarding the current administration), you come off as unintelligent, and not worth listening to.

Show us that this isn't true. Bring up some policy positions that you disagree with, and let's have a real, intelligent, mature debate. Even if neither side budges, it will be a much more enriching experience.

But this thread is about how community organizing is a joke.  Or that his speaking skills are sub-par.

So, when I volunteer my time and I.T. skills each month to the local Food Cooperative that currently feeds 75,000 families per month, that is a joke to you?  Feeding hungry children.   A joke?

When I organized a charity CD in 2005 (at great personal expense I might add) called The Tsunami Projekt, which resulted in a $10,000 donation to the Red Cross to help the victims of the Tsunami that is a joke to you?  Helping sick and injured people out by organizing the progrock community to donate some tunes to a CD.  A joke?

When my wife goes every Tuesday night and volunteers her time to help at a shelter for battered women, that is a joke to you?  Helping women and kids escape physical abuse and stay safe.  A joke?

There are all variations of community organizing.  All have enriched my life and the life of my wife.  All have taught me valuable lessons in life.

No offense, but the vast majority of what you've posted in this thread is inarticulate bilge.  You want to continue to regurgitate Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh talking points and insults, go ahead, knock yourself out.  But I see no need to keep entertaining you or providing a platform for such nonsensical tripe.  When you're ready for a thoughtful, intelligent, respectful and reciprocal discussion of the actual issues, start a new thread and maybe I will participate.   

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

bilge

This word is awesome and criminally under-used.  I have to find a way to start working it into conversations.

[livehard]

Livehard, you're allowed to disagree with the President and the direction he's taking. You're allowed to disagree with and dislike his policies. You obviously have the right to voice opposing views and criticisms. It's a democracy, which thrives on differing points of view.
There's a way to approach this though.

When you just keep harping on meaningless talking points (like the whole community organizer thing), people are just going to tune you out. If you go on about superficial details instead of actual policy you disagree with, no one will take you seriously. Continuing to harp on things like Obama being a community organizer (which actually is a legitimate thing), or not having worked a day in his life when he clearly has, rather than voicing valid policy criticism (and there are many valid criticisms regarding the current administration), you come off as unintelligent, and not worth listening to.

Show us that this isn't true. Bring up some policy positions that you disagree with, and let's have a real, intelligent, mature debate. Even if neither side budges, it will be a much more enriching experience.

But this thread is about how community organizing is a joke.  Or that his speaking skills are sub-par.

So, when I volunteer my time and I.T. skills each month to the local Food Cooperative that currently feeds 75,000 families per month, that is a joke to you?  Feeding hungry children.   A joke?

When I organized a charity CD in 2005 (at great personal expense I might add) called The Tsunami Projekt, which resulted in a $10,000 donation to the Red Cross to help the victims of the Tsunami that is a joke to you?  Helping sick and injured people out by organizing the progrock community to donate some tunes to a CD.  A joke?

When my wife goes every Tuesday night and volunteers her time to help at a shelter for battered women, that is a joke to you?  Helping women and kids escape physical abuse and stay safe.  A joke?

There are all variations of community organizing.  All have enriched my life and the life of my wife.  All have taught me valuable lessons in life.

No offense, but the vast majority of what you've posted in this thread is inarticulate bilge.  You want to continue to regurgitate Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh talking points and insults, go ahead, knock yourself out.  But I see no need to keep entertaining you or providing a platform for such nonsensical tripe.  When you're ready for a thoughtful, intelligent, respectful and reciprocal discussion of the actual issues, start a new thread and maybe I will participate.

That sounds like charity that doesn't sound like community organizing.  those don't sound like a waste of time.  You're once again putting words in my mouth.  And BSing and insulting me.  If the moderators had any sense of balance they would ban you for it.

[El Barto]

Part of the reason it's hard to pin down what Obama did was because the search results are flooded with Hannity and Palin ragging on it.  I did find one article that explained what his role was.  Personally,  I don't care; I think he sucks for practical reasons.  Quite honestly,  I don't think Livehard cares either.  Nevertheless,  here's an article on what he did and how he did it.  https://www.nationalreview.com/articles/225564/what-did-obama-do-community-organizer/byron-york

And just to address community organizing in general,  the article's description:

THE RADICAL’S RULES
Perhaps the simplest way to describe community organizing is to say it is the practice of identifying a specific aggrieved population, say unemployed steelworkers, or itinerant fruit-pickers, or residents of a particularly bad neighborhood, and agitating them until they become so upset about their condition that they take collective action to put pressure on local, state, or federal officials to fix the problem, often by giving the affected group money. Organizers like to call that “direct action.

[GuineaPig]

That sounds like charity that doesn't sound like community organizing.  those don't sound like a waste of time.  You're once again putting words in my mouth.  And BSing and insulting me.  If the moderators had any sense of balance they would ban you for it.

You said community organizing was "a joke."  Kirksnosehair posted examples of community organizing, and then concluded that you would consider them "a joke." 

Hardly putting words in your mouth.

[yeshaberto]

bilge

This word is awesome and criminally under-used.  I have to find a way to start working it into conversations.

 

agreed....

if this thread does not take a turn back to useful discussion and away from "bilging" each other, I am going to "bilge" this thread

[livehard]

That sounds like charity that doesn't sound like community organizing.  those don't sound like a waste of time.  You're once again putting words in my mouth.  And BSing and insulting me.  If the moderators had any sense of balance they would ban you for it.

You said community organizing was "a joke."  Kirksnosehair posted examples of community organizing, and then concluded that you would consider them "a joke." 

Hardly putting words in your mouth.

Fact is that all I hear is that he was a community organizer, and I don't hear whet he did.  Kirk didint just say "oh i commuinty organized" he gave descriptions of actions.  I doubt when people ask "oh what did you do this summer" he says "oh I community organized", no he probibaly said what he did.

[livehard]

Actually kirk, from a little research it looks like as per the best definition of such a vague and generalized term, such as community organizing, you are wrong, and what you did was no community organizing.

Take wikipedia (given that this isn't the best source but whatever)

Community organizing is a process where people who live in proximity to each other come together into an organization that acts in their shared self-interest. A core goal of community organizing is to generate durable power for an organization representing the community, allowing it to influence key decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the table before important decisions are made.

Charity such as soup kitchens or raising money for charity would not fall under this vague umbrella.  Moreover to quote this Saul Alinsky who cbs says defined the term:

""an abrasive agent to rub raw the resentments of the people of the community; to fan latent hostilities of many of the people to the point of overt expressions"


So stop trying to ride in on the white horse of your charitable actiivites to justify some term that doesn't really mean much and desrves skepticism.

[hefdaddy42]

So you were complaining about his being a community organizer when you didn't even know what it was?

[livehard]

I was complaing that nobody really knows what a community organizer is...

[antigoon]

Which is untrue.

[Aramatheis]

so do we know what livehard does for a living?

[zxlkho]

Well obviously he lives pretty hard.

[Aramatheis]

so basically the opposite of this??

[antigoon]

He said he works on Wall Street.

[zxlkho]

[livehard]

so basically the opposite of this??

  he does't even live nearly as hard as needed

[yeshaberto]

This is the final warning.   The discussion is Obama.   Get back to it