Obama is not a good speaker and doesn't seem that intellegent

[antigoon]

Maybe Obama talks like a black american sometimes because he is a black american.

[El Barto]

The lets blame bush line is getting old.  This economy has only gotten worse, so has the wars.  He's been in office for 3 years, no more excuses about your predecessor.  As I was just saying in the other thread, Reagan cut double digit inflation in half and started turning things around in about a year and a half.  And he didn't constantly bitch and blame Carter for his presidency.

If there was reason to think that the problems that Dumbass caused are/were solvable,  then you'd be correct.  Truth is,  we have no way of knowing if anybody could have turned things around, or even if Obama might actually slowed the meltdown.  The latter is unlikely,  but since we have no way of knowing one way or the other,  your notion that Obama has now earned the blame is quite silly.

[livehard]

Maybe Obama talks like a black american sometimes because he is a black american.

the color of your skin is no excuse for poor grammar.

Edit: Esepecially if you were a coveted community organizer, and academic.  One would think that holding such highly-regarded positions would have both required and cultivated proper speaking skills.

[GuineaPig]

wut

[livehard]

The lets blame bush line is getting old.  This economy has only gotten worse, so has the wars.  He's been in office for 3 years, no more excuses about your predecessor.  As I was just saying in the other thread, Reagan cut double digit inflation in half and started turning things around in about a year and a half.  And he didn't constantly bitch and blame Carter for his presidency.

If there was reason to think that the problems that Dumbass caused are/were solvable,  then you'd be correct.  Truth is,  we have no way of knowing if anybody could have turned things around, or even if Obama might actually slowed the meltdown.  The latter is unlikely,  but since we have no way of knowing one way or the other,  your notion that Obama has now earned the blame is quite silly.

yes Bush caused irreparable problems...ugh

[antigoon]

Maybe Obama talks like a black american sometimes because he is a black american.

the color of your skin is no excuse for poor grammar.

Edit: Esepecially if you were a coveted community organizer, and academic.  One would think that holding such highly-regarded positions would have both required and cultivated proper speaking skills.

Did you get on Bush for his famously numerous speaking gaffes?

[livehard]

Maybe Obama talks like a black american sometimes because he is a black american.

the color of your skin is no excuse for poor grammar.

Edit: Esepecially if you were a coveted community organizer, and academic.  One would think that holding such highly-regarded positions would have both required and cultivated proper speaking skills.

Did you get on Bush for his famously numerous speaking gaffes?

Did I say Bush was a good speaker? Once again excusing Obama because of the faults of Bush is lame.

[antigoon]

I don't think there's anything to excuse him of. You're coming across as clutching at straws.

[livehard]

I think your desperation to insult Bush to defend Obama is a much clearer example of grasping at straws.

[El Barto]

The lets blame bush line is getting old.  This economy has only gotten worse, so has the wars.  He's been in office for 3 years, no more excuses about your predecessor.  As I was just saying in the other thread, Reagan cut double digit inflation in half and started turning things around in about a year and a half.  And he didn't constantly bitch and blame Carter for his presidency.

If there was reason to think that the problems that Dumbass caused are/were solvable,  then you'd be correct.  Truth is,  we have no way of knowing if anybody could have turned things around, or even if Obama might actually slowed the meltdown.  The latter is unlikely,  but since we have no way of knowing one way or the other,  your notion that Obama has now earned the blame is quite silly.

yes Bush caused irreparable problems...ugh

I didn't say that they were necessarily unsolvable (though they might well be).  I said that there's no way of knowing if they could have been solved.  We're five years into a meltdown that was another five years in the making.  You're criticizing Obama because he hasn't fixed everything yet.  That's hopelessly simpleminded. 

[PlaysLikeMyung]

I think your desperation to insult Bush to defend Obama is a much clearer example of grasping at straws.

If that's all you have left, then I suggest stopping before you make a fool of yourself

[livehard]

Go ahead, make a fool of me.  Somehow show me as being a fool because I think it is non sequitur to retort to the contention that Obama isn't a great speaker by insulting Bush.  Do it.

[antigoon]

Fine. I should have cited his accent instead of his slip-ups.

Edit: And I wasn't implying that Obama is a good speaker because Bush is a bad one. I just get the feeling you didn't have a problem with W's speaking inadequacies because you weren't actively seeking ways to criticize him.

[livehard]

He was never, ever, idolized as a great speaker.

[PraXis]

Bush wasn't a great speaker, but he at least seemed more humble and didn't use a teleprompter. Obama always talks with his chin in the air as if he's "better" than the rest of us. This is what I despise about elitists academics.

There's nothing wrong with having a higher education, but don't be a douche about it and act like you know everything just because you understand some theories.

[antigoon]

I feel like we're observing two different people.

[Super Dude]

So does anyone actully think that obama is a good speaker?  Does anyone else find his soeeches kind of shallow?

He's a politician.  Even the best of them still come across as shallow.  St. Reagan is lauded for being able to connect with people,  yet even his speeches were written in a style that was crafted far more for style than substance.

It explains a lot about his term and his legacy, doesn't it?

[kirksnosehair]

I think your desperation to insult Bush to defend Obama is a much clearer example of grasping at straws.

If that's all you have left, then I suggest stopping before you make a fool of yourself

   That train left the station about a week ago 

[livehard]

So does anyone actully think that obama is a good speaker?  Does anyone else find his soeeches kind of shallow?

He's a politician.  Even the best of them still come across as shallow.  St. Reagan is lauded for being able to connect with people,  yet even his speeches were written in a style that was crafted far more for style than substance.

It explains a lot about his term and his legacy, doesn't it?

I don't know if I would say he is more style than substance.  For example, when he said "Mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall.", I love it, because he doesn't dance around the point with fancy language.  He doesn't bloviate, or try to change his speaking habits.  Thats why he was the great communicator, he stated his ideas without trying ot put the most amount of big words or adjectives around it.

[yeshaberto]

I think your desperation to insult Bush to defend Obama is a much clearer example of grasping at straws.

If that's all you have left, then I suggest stopping before you make a fool of yourself

   That train left the station about a week ago 

this is your warning...knock it off!

[hefdaddy42]

Maybe Obama talks like a black american sometimes because he is a black american.

the color of your skin is no excuse for poor grammar.

Edit: Esepecially if you were a coveted community organizer, and academic.  One would think that holding such highly-regarded positions would have both required and cultivated proper speaking skills.

He does use proper speaking skills.  Give me a break.

[Scheavo]

The lets blame bush line is getting old.  This economy has only gotten worse, so has the wars.  He's been in office for 3 years, no more excuses about your predecessor.  As I was just saying in the other thread, Reagan cut double digit inflation in half and started turning things around in about a year and a half.  And he didn't constantly bitch and blame Carter for his presidency.

If there was reason to think that the problems that Dumbass caused are/were solvable,  then you'd be correct.  Truth is,  we have no way of knowing if anybody could have turned things around, or even if Obama might actually slowed the meltdown.  The latter is unlikely,  but since we have no way of knowing one way or the other,  your notion that Obama has now earned the blame is quite silly.

yes Bush caused irreparable problems...ugh

I'd say it's more like Obama wasn't allowed to fully address the problems in this country because of a damn near treasonous Republican minority in the Senate, who prevent anything at all from going forward.

[73109]

Bush wasn't a great speaker, but he at least seemed more humble and didn't use a teleprompter. Obama always talks with his chin in the air as if he's "better" than the rest of us. This is what I despise about elitists academics.

There's nothing wrong with having a higher education, but don't be a douche about it and act like you know everything just because you understand some theories.

Oh shit, he actually wants to remember what he needs to say and not sound like a total idiot...shame on him.

In the end, what does it matter? Obama is in office, Bush is out. Obama will remain in office for another 4 and some years. Sorry dudes.

[Sigz]

Obama always talks with his chin in the air as if he's "better" than the rest of us. This is what I despise about elitists academics.

Oh please, anyone who runs for president is inherently elitist - their entire campaign is based on the premise that out of the entire eligible population, they alone are the most qualified person to be in charge of the country.

[Dark Castle]

The lets blame bush line is getting old.  This economy has only gotten worse, so has the wars.  He's been in office for 3 years, no more excuses about your predecessor.  As I was just saying in the other thread, Reagan cut double digit inflation in half and started turning things around in about a year and a half.  And he didn't constantly bitch and blame Carter for his presidency.

If there was reason to think that the problems that Dumbass caused are/were solvable,  then you'd be correct.  Truth is,  we have no way of knowing if anybody could have turned things around, or even if Obama might actually slowed the meltdown.  The latter is unlikely,  but since we have no way of knowing one way or the other,  your notion that Obama has now earned the blame is quite silly.

yes Bush caused irreparable problems...ugh

I'd say it's more like Obama wasn't allowed to fully address the problems in this country because of a damn near treasonous Republican minority in the Senate, who prevent anything at all from going forward.

[Perpetual Change]

Obama's boring, but saying that he doesn't speak correctly is just weird.

[antigoon]

He uses that black slang, you see.

[snapple]

I have no doubt that both Obama and Bush are very smart individuals. Too bad we value their ability to speak over their intelligence. Hire someone to write speeches and put out/do press things...owait.

Being able to convey your ideas is fine, but a President shouldn't be valued on his oratory ability to this asinine degree. Reagan and FDR were great orators. Was Clinton? GHWB? Maybe their spoken word was better, but they weren't FDR or Reagan. Say what you will about their policies, there is no denying that any President we have had in the last century was smart. Now, how they used it or conveyed it is completely different. Here is a fact that I'm sure I won't have to back up: it would be impossible to get an idiot elected to office.

[GuineaPig]

I don't know if it's impossible.  Plenty of Americans like a degree of anti-intellectualism.

[73109]

I will never understand that.

And I agree with snapple and will take it one step further...

Who gives a shit if the president is a good public speaker? I know it is his job to keep his people calm and happy, but that's not the important shit. The important part of being the Commander in Chief is passing shit and attempting to change the country the way you see fit. I would not have a problem if the next president never made a public appearance and worked in the oval office all day without anyone seeing him. As long as shit was passed that I dug.

I mean, really! Who gives a shit if a politician can bull shit? That is what they are doing whether they are democrats, republicans, independents, libertarians...none of them are going to give you a straight answer. This entire thread is basically debating which president could bull shit the best. Who gives a fuck?

[El Barto]

Here is a fact that I'm sure I won't have to back up: it would be impossible to get an idiot elected to office.

Nonsense.  Being dim was Bush's best selling point.  Same with Palin.  Perry might be the worst of the lot. 

[livehard]

I dont really give that much if he's a great speaker, but everyone else seems to... How much time was spent talking about how he's such a great speaker? It was an unbelievable amount.  Thats why he got as many votes as he did... He didn't say anything of substance to prove that a junior senator whose most leadership position was a "community organizer" could be president.  He just simply fit the bill.  He's a young, sharp looking, black man who made girls faint... for no good reason whatsoever.

[El Barto]

I dont really give that much if he's a great speaker, but everyone else seems to... How much time was spent talking about how he's such a great speaker? It was an unbelievable amount.  Thats why he got as many votes as he did... He didn't say anything of substance to prove that a junior senator whose most leadership position was a "community organizer" could be president.  He just simply fit the bill.  He's a young, sharp looking, black man who made girls faint... for no good reason whatsoever.

I don't honestly recall anybody suggesting that he was some great orator.  I think he was just a likable guy to a large chunk of the population,  and they assumed he'd do what they wanted done.  Actually sounds a bit like his predecessor. 

[snapple]

@ElBaeto I've seen interviews with Bush post-presidency, the guy is pretty damn smart. People confused his speech and demeanor with intelligence. Its just as bad with Conservatives and Obama.

[El Barto]

@ElBaeto I've seen interviews with Bush post-presidency, the guy is pretty damn smart. People confused his speech and demeanor with intelligence. Its just as bad with Conservatives and Obama.

I'll assume that was an honest typo.

My two most recent comments on Chimpy's intellect:

El Bart, have you seen any W interviews post-presidency? He's not as stupid as you all make him out to be. It'd be nice if you laid off the name calling of conservatives and things relating to Republicans. You're not the only one with an opinion and this megaphone called the Internet.

He isn't a retard, I'll give you that,  but what intelligence he does have he has zero interest in actually using.  My guess is that the guy can probably work the hell out of a sudoku puzzle,  something that confounded me the one time I took a look at one,  but he lacks both the bandwidth and the interest to take on complex matters.  He's, quite simply,  a very simple man, which I suspect is largely by choice and by design. 

As much as I rag on Chimpy,  he wasn't altogether stupid.  I'd actually be kind of curious to see an IQ score from the guy.  I think we'd probably be surprised.  Now he was embarrassingly devoid of knowledge, and couldn't form proper sentences to save his life.  He tended to act on gut instinct, which frequently served him poorly.  He allowed himself to be manipulated by everybody around him.  It goes on and on, and all of these things amount to a characterization that I'm happy to throw around.  Still,  I suspect the man probably has some halfway decent cognitive skills, gathering dust,  lost in that monkey head of his. 

Quite frankly,  I was probably being a bit generous.  Given everything we've seen about him,  I'm pretty content to call him Dumbass.  He's not retarded,  but in the grand scheme of things he's a very simple man.