Music Lessons

[Progmetty]

Or generally music classes. I'm a tab reader, I play guitar and bass but I'm a tab reader, the lowest form of musicians imo.
I played bass/sang in a band for 5 years back in Egypt. I moved to the states almost 3 years ago and of course I didn't find a band to join basically cause there's no community to make friends and find other musicians. The community being school or neighborhood friends or any community that you've been a part of for a long time.
I played better back in Egypt cause we had to study a song every couple of weeks and get in the rehearsals space (which rents for a lot) and be able to nail it right during the hour we rented. There are no basements or garages for rehearsals in Egypt. You can't play with a band at home like they do in the states heh
I can't improvise cause I would fuck up a scale but I play well when I memorize a tab.
Long story short; I believe I write good music that at least appeals to me and I wanna make my writing process easier by learning music theory, I simply can't learn anything that has a practical side by reading online so I have to have a human teacher and I was wondering if anyone can point me to the best and most cost effective way to do it.

[goldfalcon]

Local teacher, man.  It's what I personally do for a living, and it sounds like you could benefit from it.  Just ask around at local music shops and DEFINITELY get referrals for whoever you end up going with; don't just take the first opening.  And also don't be afraid to tell the teacher EXACTLY what you want to achieve; if he's not down with that, then find yourself another teacher.

Good luck with it.

Alex

[Progmetty]

Thanks for the advice. I've been considering that but I was wondering how I can know if he's good before I start and what's the average payment per lesson that would be fair?

[Marion Crane]

Lowest form of musician?  That's a little harsh.  There are plenty of amazing guitar players out there, or musicians for that matter, who can't read music.

[Progmetty]

If I can't improvise cause I don't know wether the next note I land on is gonna be in scale or not then yeah, that comes from long years of taking the easy way out by being a tab reader. At least that's how I see it for myself. I've been playing for almost 10 years now, I can play great as long as I memorize the tab. I'm not so far from the losers with the plastic guitars :/

[Marion Crane]

oh I hear ya.  I just don't think it's a lower form of musician.  If I learn how to play modes/scales from sheet music or tab, it's all the same to me.  You still gotta play it.  That's why the minor pentatonic scale works 99% of the time.  You can slide in and out of it and still come up with tasty leads.  Just look at the Lines in the Sand lead.

[Progmetty]

You're right actually

[Jamesman42]

Yeah, I read tabs (I even tablate piano using letters) and not sheet music and I can keep myself in key on guitar, bass, and keys easy.

[Progmetty]

Have you studied any theory though? How can I recognize the scales and their names if I didn't?

[kirksnosehair]

metty - I am 47 years old and started taking formal music lessons at the age of 8.  I was in the 3rd grade and I was given a choice between glee club (singing) or learning to play an instrument, so I went with the instrument and ended up learning how to play the Clarinet.  Later, in junior high school, I moved on to the Tenor Sax, which is an easy transition from the Clarinet, because there is only one key on the instrument that is different.

By the time I got to high school, I had taken guitar and drum lessons and those continued through high school, and even into my early college years.   I have continued to study music theory throughout my adult life and I just recently decided to take piano lessons, having hit a bit of a wall with learning to play myself.  It's been very nice to get back into reading music and studying theory.

But let me make something very clear to you:  Some of the best musicians I've ever played with over the years, and I've played with a ton of really killer players, a lot of them don't read music at all.  If you put musical notation down in front of them they wouldn't know the difference between a quarter note and a half note. 

With that said, I would encourage ANY musician who wants to improve their understanding of just exactly what it is they are doing when they play their instrument to study music theory.  Usually, if you take lessons on your instrument, such as guitar, they will roll the lessons on technique (how to play) into theory (what to play)

In fact, I am getting a very nice refresher course on music theory right now with my piano lessons.

I hope this was helpful to you and good luck!

[Progmetty]

Thanks kirksnosehair, that's good to know.
I love my parents but they never thought to enroll me in any such activity at such a young age, it's probably much easier if you start that early.

[Marion Crane]

I've never taken any guitar lessons.  Totally self taught.  Any theory I've learned has been from playing with other people.  I've played for over 15 years.  That being said, my guitar playing has pretty much plateaued to a point where I'm comfortable where I'm at.  I chose to spend my time learning other instruments and recording/producing.  Which has actually made me a better musician.

[Jamesman42]

Have you studied any theory though? How can I recognize the scales and their names if I didn't?

I had 1.5 classes on it and what I learned can't be applied because it was so basic that tablature still taught me more. You can learn scales without knowing theory, because there is a pattern to scales, and because tabs use numbers, you can use the patterns to determine the spacing between the numbers.

Let's say we start with the first fret on the E string of the guitar on the guitar, and I want to play a minor scale all on the same string for a whole octave (an octave is where a scale starts and ends). The minor scale just has us start at the 1, then to 3, then 4, then 6, then 8, then 9, then 11, then 13. Hitting those frets successively means you have gone through the minor scale based off the first fret.

To transpose that starting at the 2nd fret of the same string, start at fret 2, then 4, then 5, then 7, then 9, then 10, then 12, then 14. All I did really was add 1 to each fret from the previous example.

There's more to it like taking that same run of frets and condensing it to multiple strings so your hand can stay stationary. This is how I teach myself scales, by using patterns and then applying it to any key (key is the starting fret in this case).

I don't know if this is confusing based on what you already know.

[Marion Crane]

Another way to do it is to learn basic leads (AC/DC, Hendrix, etc..) and you'll begin to notice how they all pretty much move in within the same shape, just in different places on the neck. 

[Jamesman42]

Right. Said concisely, it's about becoming familiar with the pattern and then learning when you can go outside of that and when you should stay inside.

[Marion Crane]

Many of JP's leads, Voices for example, move around in a minor pentatonic scale, with some chromatic inflections thrown in.  Voices is pretty much done in an Am blues scale, with some spicy movements here and there, and then he goes into world domination mode. 

[Progmetty]

That's pretty cool guys, it's what I've been doing for 10 years on both guitar and bass thinking I was just wasting time on nonsense.
James your post was very helpful and I completely understand what you were talking about, I use variations on this when I write a new riff or jam randomly. But it doesn't work when I solo, and by solo I mean when I go down to the higher frets on the strings and try to go faster.
But anyway now I know that learning music theory is a good thing but not as useful as I thought it would be, I kinda thought it would make you look at the guitar like a map with a clear legend in your mind. A 1+1=2 science where you can't go wrong and therefore you can play better and faster.
So if I go to a guitar teacher and don't request to learn music theory specifically then what would he have to offer?

[Marion Crane]

If you're trying to improve your lead playing, I would have him teach you lead techniques, runs, simple scales, and then leads themselves.  If you learn a few basic leads, you'll see how they all fit together.  I honestly learned how to play by learning Metallica songs.  It teaches you clean picking, rhythm techniques, palm muting, fast down picking, leads, harmonies....you name it.  After I felt comfortable there, I moved on to Van Halen and Dream Theater. 

My best advice for learning leads would be to pick a song with a lead section that you like and seems appropriate for your ability.  Here's a video that I think every guitar player on Earth should watch.  It's incredibly informative and inspiring.  Hopefully this helps a little.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atGBKuCJ-Jc

[Progmetty]

That was pretty awesome. Vai's instructions are way more useful than Petrucci's.
Thank you very much Marion

[Millais]

definitely worth learning all the theory. but as far as I'm concerned, as long as you're willing to put in some hard work you can do it without a teacher/lessons.

[Kotowboy]

Some of the best music readers in the business have no idea how to improvise.

[deadtotheworld]

Im self taught using tab books from my favourite bands jamming along to cds, then it came almost natural to learn stuff by ear. Jamming blues scales along with backing tracks was a great help, for example blues in B, just playing scales i knew adding extra notes, sliding in to notes, bending strings and learning every place on the neck to perform leads and took it from there.
The most valuable experiences where from jamming with other musicians, learning on the fly and being thrown in at the deep end, playing tunes id never heard with shouting out the chords then getting a nod to do the solo in whatever key. Through jamming along to backing tracks and improvising i just know where the notes are and where i should play and how i should play it - all the musicians i know who learnt from tutors and practiced theory really struggled to just jam and come up with ideas. Some of them are technically fine players but just seem to lack a lot of what it takes to be a great player.
After playing in bands, doing tours, recording cds, selling songs and doing session work i aint done too badly for what you call lowest form of musician! I know loads of scales that i dont even know the names of, but its never once held me back.
I wouldnt get too hung up on paying somebody to teach you theory, when in this day and age there is a wealth of knowledge available for free, and applying quality time and effort in to just enjoying your learning and playing is the key.

[kirbywelch92]

The thing about music theory is that it doesn't really appear to be all that helpful, because it's a skill you have to develop. If you begin to put them into practice on the fretboard, you will notice a difference in your ability to recognize patterns musically.

I'll honestly tell you that if a teacher DOESN'T teach you theory or how to read music, than he/she isn't worth your time or money. And honestly why would you limit yourself as a musician by not learning rules about music? It's definitely hard but it will only make you better in the end.

[Progmetty]

All of the replies helped a lot, thanks guys.
One of the shittiest thing I come across and ignore it cause I can never do it write is when a tab says this "Tuning: Tuning: C-G-C-F-A-D" or "Drop D" for examples, you want me to change the tuning of the strings that I spent half a fuckin hour adjusting to the tuner and another half an hour doubting my adjustment?! Oh you want me to tune it to a setting I can never confirm is correct as I have no reference on it?!
So I just read the tab and ignore that part. The song would sound a tad off of course. Any advice?