Author Topic: A Nightmare To Remember - two songs ? (Read 8036 times)

Kotowboy · « **on:** October 03, 2011, 09:22:22 AM »

I listened to A Nightmare To Remember again recently and was struck not only by how long it was ( too many solos imo ) but how If they'd made the Beautiful Agony section it's own song, then that album may have been kicked up a notch...

ANTR could have been an 8 minute song and Beautiful Agony could have been a Wither type song.

Thoughts ?

I'm just not a fan of long songs over amount of songs, which is why I prefer ADTOE to BC&SL in the first instance.

It also happens to be a much better album in the second instance, but was relieved when I found it was 9 songs and not 6.

Metrovarium · « **Reply #1 on:** October 03, 2011, 09:32:43 AM »

If Beautiful Agony was it's own song, ANTR would be much lower in my song ranking and Beautiful Agony would be in the top 20.

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #2 on:** October 03, 2011, 09:38:39 AM »

No, I love it the way it is, and it's already probably in my top 20.

serrano · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2011, 09:43:27 AM »

Beautiful Agony would be a great song on it's own. Much better than ANTR around it.

carl320 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 03, 2011, 09:48:57 AM »

ANTR is a pretty good song, made even better with the Beautiful Agony part in the middle. I like it being one song.

hefdaddy42 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 03, 2011, 10:31:47 AM »

Quote from: serrano on October 03, 2011, 09:43:27 AM

Beautiful Agony would be a great song on it's own. Much better than ANTR around it.

bosk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 03, 2011, 10:41:20 AM »

Quote from: BlobVanDam on October 03, 2011, 09:38:39 AM

No, I love it the way it is, and it's already probably in my top 20.

Samsara · « **Reply #7 on:** October 03, 2011, 10:45:15 AM »

Quote from: serrano on October 03, 2011, 09:43:27 AM

Beautiful Agony would be a great song on it's own. Much better than ANTR around it.

Agreed. One of my biggest complaints is DT doing stuff like they did in ANTR.

Thank God someone had the sense to lift "Hell's Kitchen" out of "Burning My Soul" back in 1996 and 1997. The original version has absolutely no flow because of that.

Wish that same person would have been in the room during ANTR and did the same thing. Two good songs, instead of one overly-long song that has no flow.

TAC · « **Reply #8 on:** October 03, 2011, 10:58:26 AM »

I hear what you are saying, Sam. ANTR is a song I wish I liked more. I love the Beautiful Agony and the instrumental section. But the song does drag a bit.

ddtonfire · « **Reply #9 on:** October 03, 2011, 11:02:52 AM »

Beautiful Agony would have been really boring on its own. ANTR would have been stale without it. It's pure mutualism.

theseoafs · « **Reply #10 on:** October 03, 2011, 11:13:54 AM »

Quote from: ddtonfire on October 03, 2011, 11:02:52 AM

Beautiful Agony would have been really boring on its own. ANTR would have been stale without it. It's pure mutualism.

This, actually. The thing that keeps this song from being awesome is the third act.

Jaffa · « **Reply #11 on:** October 03, 2011, 11:18:11 AM »

Quote from: ddtonfire on October 03, 2011, 11:02:52 AM

Beautiful Agony would have been really boring on its own. ANTR would have been stale without it. It's pure mutualism.

This.

SuperTaco · « **Reply #12 on:** October 03, 2011, 11:32:18 AM »

I have to agree. While I love ANTR the way it is, the BA section is one of the most beautiful moments the band has ever created IMO. If it was it's own song I think that ultimately would have helped the album garner more praise.

There IS a fan-made song called "Beautiful Agony" that was made with the ANTR stems, and it's a very good representation of what that part of the song could have been like on it's own. It's just over 5 minutes long and it sound and flows very nicely. The only place I can remember finding it is on MP's forum and on Youtube.

I do highly suggest you guys listen to it if you haven't already, it could just be the answer you're looking for.

ishak540m · « **Reply #13 on:** October 03, 2011, 11:43:08 AM »

The reason why the BA section is powerful is because of the contrasting heaviness surrounding it. Breaking it off as it's own track would lessen this and it wouldn't be as revered.

jsem · « **Reply #14 on:** October 03, 2011, 11:53:02 AM »

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on October 03, 2011, 10:31:47 AM

Quote from: serrano on October 03, 2011, 09:43:27 AM
Beautiful Agony would be a great song on it's own. Much better than ANTR around it.

hefdaddy42 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 03, 2011, 11:57:54 AM »

Quote from: ishak540m on October 03, 2011, 11:43:08 AM

The reason why the BA section is powerful is because of the contrasting heaviness surrounding it. Breaking it off as it's own track would lessen this and it wouldn't be as revered.

I disagree.

ishak540m · « **Reply #16 on:** October 03, 2011, 12:32:29 PM »

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on October 03, 2011, 11:57:54 AM

Quote from: ishak540m on October 03, 2011, 11:43:08 AM
The reason why the BA section is powerful is because of the contrasting heaviness surrounding it. Breaking it off as it's own track would lessen this and it wouldn't be as revered.
I disagree.

You're entitled to do just that.

hefdaddy42 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 03, 2011, 12:35:11 PM »

obscure · « **Reply #18 on:** October 03, 2011, 12:37:47 PM »

Quote from: Jaffa on October 03, 2011, 11:18:11 AM

Quote from: ddtonfire on October 03, 2011, 11:02:52 AM
Beautiful Agony would have been really boring on its own. ANTR would have been stale without it. It's pure mutualism.

This.

TheOutlawXanadu · « **Reply #19 on:** October 03, 2011, 12:41:24 PM »

Quote from: ishak540m on October 03, 2011, 11:43:08 AM

The reason why the BA section is powerful is because of the contrasting heaviness surrounding it. Breaking it off as it's own track would lessen this and it wouldn't be as revered.

I totally agree with this. I agree with the general notion of ANTR being a little long, but BA would not sound nearly as good on its own.

Tis BOOLsheet · « **Reply #20 on:** October 03, 2011, 12:58:51 PM »

the only thing from that song worth eliminating is portnoy's vocal part at the end which is some of the worst combination of lyrics and vocalizing ive ever heard from this band.

gm5k · « **Reply #21 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:03:18 PM »

Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on October 03, 2011, 12:58:51 PM

the only thing from that song worth eliminating is portnoy's vocal part at the end

Yea, and I wouldn't mind eliminating about 1/2 the instrumental section as well...I need to edit this song so I can enjoy it again

So much filler in an otherwise amazing song IMO.

ishak540m · « **Reply #22 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:11:49 PM »

Quote from: gm5k on October 03, 2011, 01:03:18 PM

Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on October 03, 2011, 12:58:51 PM
the only thing from that song worth eliminating is portnoy's vocal part at the end

Yea, and I wouldn't mind eliminating about 1/2 the instrumental section as well...I need to edit this song so I can enjoy it again So much filler in an otherwise amazing song IMO.

While I understand the urge to edit MP's attempt to be Akerfeldt, I definitely don't understand the need to take out half the instrumental section. I don't feel that it's out of place at all. In fact the only instrumental that I've ever felt was out of place in a DT song was in TMOLS. On the same token, they're musicians, don't you listen to DT for the musicianship?

gm5k · « **Reply #23 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:21:41 PM »

Quote from: ishak540m on October 03, 2011, 01:11:49 PM

While I understand the urge to edit MP's attempt to be Akerfeldt, I definitely don't understand the need to take out half the instrumental section. I don't feel that it's out of place at all. In fact the only instrumental that I've ever felt was out of place in a DT song was in TMOLS. On the same token, they're musicians, don't you listen to DT for the musicianship?

Yea I definitely do, and I love a lot of their long instrumental sections. Guess that section just isn't for me.

I like JP's solo's and love the unison between JP and JR, but that's it for the ANTR instrumental part. 1/2 may have been a stretch, maybe 1/3

BTW, I love the instrumental on TMOLS

krands85 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:24:43 PM »

Quote from: bosk1 on October 03, 2011, 10:41:20 AM

Quote from: BlobVanDam on October 03, 2011, 09:38:39 AM
No, I love it the way it is, and it's already probably in my top 20.

Just scrapes into the top 20 now, mind you. With a few ADTOE dropping it down the pecking order

ironhead · « **Reply #25 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:27:49 PM »

I like them together. The parts complement each other well

kirksnosehair · « **Reply #26 on:** October 03, 2011, 02:39:35 PM »

I'm guessing that the Beautiful Agony section probably started off as an individual song.

Cranky · « **Reply #27 on:** October 03, 2011, 02:47:20 PM »

Nope, love it the way it is!! I love the entire song 100%
In fact, if they were actually two separate songs on the album, I'd just put them both together in my DAW so it's just one song again.
If you want them to be two different songs, maybe you could slap A Nightmare to Remember in Audacity, and split 'em up.

Dublagent66 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 03, 2011, 02:49:00 PM »

I suppose any of their long songs could be divided up into separate arrangements but why would they want to? I wouldn't.

3xodus · « **Reply #29 on:** October 03, 2011, 02:50:29 PM »

Quote from: Samsära on October 03, 2011, 10:45:15 AM

Quote from: serrano on October 03, 2011, 09:43:27 AM
Beautiful Agony would be a great song on it's own. Much better than ANTR around it.

Agreed. One of my biggest complaints is DT doing stuff like they did in ANTR.

Thank God someone had the sense to lift "Hell's Kitchen" out of "Burning My Soul" back in 1996 and 1997. The original version has absolutely no flow because of that.

Wish that same person would have been in the room during ANTR and did the same thing. Two good songs, instead of one overly-long song that has no flow.

If this had happened I'm afraid that ANTR would have ended up a shell of a song just like BMS did. I think the Beautiful Agony part by itself is an interesting concept, but ANTR really builds well to that climax I thought. ANTR couldn't stand alone by itself the way Beautiful Agony could imo.

TheOutlawXanadu · « **Reply #30 on:** October 03, 2011, 05:06:23 PM »

Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on October 03, 2011, 12:58:51 PM

the only thing from that song worth eliminating is portnoy's vocal part at the end which is some of the worst combination of lyrics and vocalizing ive ever heard from this band.

I know this is going to sound overdramatic. Please everyone forgive me...

Looking back on it, that moment might be the lowest in Dream Theater history. I know that a lot of people point to Falling into Infinity as being a low point for the band because of how badly a lot of the songs were butchered by the record label, but at least they were butchered by the record label. Portnoy's vocal part at the end of "A Nightmare to Remember" basically confirmed that he wanted DT to be a different band. By then, he had fallen out of love with their music. Being a geeky, nerdy prog band had overstayed its welcome and he was already dreaming of doing something like Adrenaline Mob.

In that moment, DT weren't just going somewhere outside their comfort zone. They were going somewhere they didn't want to be.

Cranky · « **Reply #31 on:** October 03, 2011, 05:11:30 PM »

I don't know about you guys, but I am rather fond of Mike Portnoy's vocals and lyrics at the end of A Nightmare To Remember.
They are both fun, and catchy to my ears.

bosk1 · « **Reply #32 on:** October 03, 2011, 05:15:18 PM »

Quote from: Cranky on October 03, 2011, 05:11:30 PM

I don't know about you guys, but I am rather fond of Mike Portnoy's vocals and lyrics at the end of A Nightmare To Remember.
They are both fun, and catchy to my ears.

Same here. I will never understand the dislike by some.

hefdaddy42 · « **Reply #33 on:** October 03, 2011, 05:21:38 PM »

I will never understand your not understanding.

JustinSire · « **Reply #34 on:** October 03, 2011, 05:25:24 PM »

Man, the Voices guitar solo is so good. If it was it's own song, that song would be my favorite song ever.

News: Video of online chat between fans and members of Dream Theater: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx8cLlXnHpA&feature=youtu.be (*no chickens were harmed during the filming of this chat)

Author Topic: A Nightmare To Remember - two songs ? (Read 8036 times)