Wall Street Protests

[Super Dude]

Actually on that note, didn't it take something on the order of four years for the SDS to make a mark on Democratic political discourse?

[Rathma]

Or these people can start organizing, and thinking how they can have a positive impact on the election your talking about! It is not too late for that. Why not?

Speaking for the protests at Wall Street, a good chunk of the movement is very organized. Check out this list of events for example. There are all kinds of lectures, working groups and programs to keep the movement sustainable, run by some very committed people.

https://www.nycga.net/events/

So it's definitely more than just protesting. At the same time, since it's an open movement, it can attract people who are just hobos, are uneducated or just want to use drugs, so how to deal with all of that is also one of the things organizing folk continually discuss.

[antigoon]

Poll: Most Americans Support Occupy Wall Street

At a time when protests have erupted across the country over a growing inequality of wealth and Congress is considering measures to impose a surtax on those earning more than $1 million annually, the public seems to be in a populist mood--one that's tempered by skepticism about Washington's ability to do anything about the grim economy.

A new survey shows that Americans overwhelmingly support the self-styled Occupy Wall Street protests that not only have disrupted life in Lower Manhattan but also in Washington and cities and towns across the U.S. and in other nations. Some 59 percent of adults either completely agree or mostly agree with the protesters, while 31 percent mostly disagree or completely disagree; 10 percent of those surveyed didn't know or refused to answer.

What's more, many people are paying attention to the rallies. Almost two-thirds of respondents--65 percent--said they've heard "a lot" or "some" about the rallies, while 35 percent have said they've heard or seen "not too much" or "nothing at all" about the demonstrations.

The results appear in the latest edition of the United Technologies/National Journal Congressional Connection Poll.

When it comes to the question of how to pay for the Democratic jobs bill, most respondents were more than willing to place a special burden on the wealthy. Those surveyed were asked about a possible 5 percent surtax on those earning more than $1 million annually. The idea got considerable discussion earlier this fall when Congress considered President Obama's jobs package. Senate Republicans united against the bill and were joined by some Democrats, making it impossible for the measure to pass in a chamber where 60-vote majorities have become the norm because of filibustering. Still, a whopping 68 percent of adults support the Democratic surtax to pay for the cost of their jobs plan. Only 27 percent opposed the tax, while 5 percent didn't know. Men and women split almost identically on the issue, and black non-Hispanics were more supportive of the surtax than white non-Hispanics, with 84 percent supporting the idea.

[Super Dude]

Interesting find, my only hesitance being from the research methods (only two questions, sampling by phone which can be iffy [although it's good they hit both landlane and cell, etc.)

[antigoon]

You make a good point; I never really know how much weight to put behind any specific poll.

on another note:





Murdoch's Post strikes again!

[Dr. DTVT]

Interesting find, my only hesitance being from the research methods (only two questions, sampling by phone which can be iffy [although it's good they hit both landlane and cell, etc.)

I don't think they can call cell numbers.  I could be wrong, but I've never got a solicitation on my cell phone, but got plenty on my land line when I had that.

[Super Dude]

Interesting find, my only hesitance being from the research methods (only two questions, sampling by phone which can be iffy [although it's good they hit both landlane and cell, etc.)

I don't think they can call cell numbers.  I could be wrong, but I've never got a solicitation on my cell phone, but got plenty on my land line when I had that.

It said that they did in the article.

The reason they tend not to should be obvious enough though; I mean look at me, using a Michigan area code in Massachusetts. That'll throw data off some for sure.

[Scheavo]

Or these people can start organizing, and thinking how they can have a positive impact on the election your talking about! It is not too late for that. Why not?

They are impacting the national dialogue which is impacting the presidential race. What, do you want them to form an impotent third party? Simply team up with the Democrats to achieve next to nothing? They're putting pressures on both parties, not just one, right now; and they're having a HUGE affect on our national dialogue.

An article I linked to a while ago mentioned how the CBO's report on income inequality made it to the front page of most newspapers, the first time that's ever happened. People are paying more attention to this issue, they're caring more, so everything you want is happening.

[orcus116]

You make a good point; I never really know how much weight to put behind any specific poll.

on another note:





Murdoch's Post strikes again!

The Post is awesome but in ways it shouldn't be. My favorite was when they allowed a Hasidic Jew onto the police force which prompted the tabloid-esque title of "NYPD Jew".

[livehard]

Ya they do write some good headlines.  I liked the one they issued after gadafi was killed- it was a picture of a kid with gadafi's golden gun, sporting a yankee hat.  It said "Guy who killed Gadafi is a yankees fan"

[lonestar]

Ya they do write some good headlines.  I liked the one they issued after gadafi was killed- it was a picture of a kid with gadafi's golden gun, sporting a yankee hat.  It said "Guy who killed Gadafi is a yankees fan"

The executive chef of our hotel has that on his office wall.  He is a hardcore yankee fan BTW.

[antigoon]

Ya they do write some good headlines.  I liked the one they issued after gadafi was killed- it was a picture of a kid with gadafi's golden gun, sporting a yankee hat.  It said "Guy who killed Gadafi is a yankees fan"

[Fiery Winds]

Anyone see this?  https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home

Not sure if this is a group trying to co-opt the movement or a legitimate formation.

[Rathma]

No idea what that is, but the legitimate (approved by the New York General Assembly) declaration of Occupy Wall Street can be found here https://www.nycga.net/resources/declaration/

[Super Dude]

I feel as though some of the bullet points are a little sensationalist or misinformed (and a couple I think might actually be just plain made up), but overall I'm still with 'em.

[Riceball]

This is a tad disconcerting, unfortunately. I like that they have a unified voice, but the tone of these points and the fact that its been "ratified" (whatever that means...) points to a growing risk of aggressive behaviour. A lot of it is just a formalising a whole bunch of conspiracy theories about corporatism, too, which doesn't help.

So what is this New York City General Assembly? Is it just Occupy Wall Street with a more professional (I almost cheekily wrote corporate) image?

NB: I don't mean aggressive as in violent, I mean it as more assertive and forceful, which given their position and the politically supercharged discourse could end badly for them.

EDIT: Heh, after a bit more digging, it looks like its an attempt to get a system of governance in place. Too bad it looks very much like how the politics they are trying to bring down operates, complete with donations! Guess if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

[Scheavo]

So wait... you're concerned now that they may actually get something done? They're really damned if they do, damned if they don't, for you.

The "The99PercentDeclaration" seems a bit more rational to me than the one approved by New York. There's only a few things I would disagree with, or area's I think are a little off, and few things I'm not sure would pass.. but hey, they all don't need to pass.

I really like the call for basically a Constitutional Convention, though. That's what this country needs.

[orcus116]

Anyone see this?  https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home

Not sure if this is a group trying to co-opt the movement or a legitimate formation.

I love how Debt Reduction is right above something suggesting reinstating huge public works programs.

[Scheavo]

Anyone see this?  https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home

Not sure if this is a group trying to co-opt the movement or a legitimate formation.

I love how Debt Reduction is right above something suggesting reinstating huge public works programs.

Public works gets the economy back on track, so that tax revenues increase, allowing you to pay off debt. A shrinking economy means less revenues, which means a worse debt situation. 

[Super Dude]

Anyone see this?  https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home

Not sure if this is a group trying to co-opt the movement or a legitimate formation.

I love how Debt Reduction is right above something suggesting reinstating huge public works programs.

Public works gets the economy back on track, so that tax revenues increase, allowing you to pay off debt. A shrinking economy means less revenues, which means a worse debt situation.

This. I mean just look at Europe's austerity measures, and how well that's helped them.

Edit: I actually favor the 99% Declaration less. I mean no lobbies? Maybe no lobbies for corporate entities or something, but there shouldn't be a complete abolition of lobbying. How the hell would anyone advocate for anything en masse?

Edit 2: Upon a review of the New York document (and particularly its comments section), I've come to a fascinating realization: they're all unqualified to offer a better alternative. Tea Party, Occupy movement, doesn't matter. All of them composed by people with very little real political education and with a penchant for conspiracy theories. I mean ffs, ending the Fed is a bad thing. Eliminating the ability to lobby is a bad thing. Not all wars are for "blood money," and sometimes national security really is under threat.

Why can't the moderates start protesting?

[Rathma]

I actually favor the 99% Declaration less. I mean no lobbies?

Where does it say this?

[Super Dude]

I actually favor the 99% Declaration less. I mean no lobbies?

Where does it say this?

Unless I'm somehow misreading it:

1. Elimination of the Corporate State

This ban shall extend to all individuals, corporations, "political action committees," "super political action committees," lobbyists, unions

I realize they're talking about contributions of money or things of value by these entities, but campaign and other gifts are pretty much part of the lobbyist's job description. I'm not sure there's any other way a lobby can do its job.

[Rathma]

If lobbyists want to influence the opinions of politicians they can simply present their arguments. Allowing them to use money to influence the actions of politicians is a clear mark of kleptocracy in a nation where the gap between the rich and the poor is already so wide, imo. Of course you may never be able to stop this completely but you can at least try to prevent it with the law.

[orcus116]

Anyone see this?  https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home

Not sure if this is a group trying to co-opt the movement or a legitimate formation.

I love how Debt Reduction is right above something suggesting reinstating huge public works programs.

Public works gets the economy back on track, so that tax revenues increase, allowing you to pay off debt. A shrinking economy means less revenues, which means a worse debt situation.

But where is the funding coming from? Reallocation of the current budget would be the best solution I think because I don't disagree with your outcome I can just see this turn into additional spending which adds more debt.

[antigoon]

Anyone see this?  https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home

Not sure if this is a group trying to co-opt the movement or a legitimate formation.

I love how Debt Reduction is right above something suggesting reinstating huge public works programs.

Public works gets the economy back on track, so that tax revenues increase, allowing you to pay off debt. A shrinking economy means less revenues, which means a worse debt situation.

This. I mean just look at Europe's austerity measures, and how well that's helped them.

Edit: I actually favor the 99% Declaration less. I mean no lobbies? Maybe no lobbies for corporate entities or something, but there shouldn't be a complete abolition of lobbying. How the hell would anyone advocate for anything en masse?

Edit 2: Upon a review of the New York document (and particularly its comments section), I've come to a fascinating realization: they're all unqualified to offer a better alternative. Tea Party, Occupy movement, doesn't matter. All of them composed by people with very little real political education and with a penchant for conspiracy theories. I mean ffs, ending the Fed is a bad thing. Eliminating the ability to lobby is a bad thing. Not all wars are for "blood money," and sometimes national security really is under threat.

Why can't the moderates start protesting?

Moderates are by-and-large the least informed members of the electorate, that's why! Anyway, I don't put too much stock into that declaration.

[PraXis]

https://www.globalrichlist.com/

I am the 0.66%! 

These protests are getting out of hand. Crime in the Portland area of the protests is up 18%, and there is still no definable message.

[Super Dude]

Goon: I'm moderate left. If anything, I think people on the extremes of either end of the spectrum most out of touch with political realities.

[7StringedBeast]

Goon: I'm moderate left. If anything, I think people on the extremes of either end of the spectrum most out of touch with political realities.

Agreed

[eric42434224]

https://www.globalrichlist.com/

I am the 0.66%! 

These protests are getting out of hand. Crime in the Portland area of the protests is up 18%, and there is still no definable message.

.01% here.

It was a crime when they dumped the tea into the harbor too.  I am OK with it.

Its OK for thousands to be killed or maimed and tortured (foriegners and Americans) in foriegn countries because of vague, undefined, or even outright invalid reasons....but higher levels of mostly petty crimes in small pockets to protest for real positive change is not acceptable.

OK.

[ResultsMayVary]

https://www.globalrichlist.com/

I am the 0.66%! 

These protests are getting out of hand. Crime in the Portland area of the protests is up 18%, and there is still no definable message.

0.4% here.

[chknptpie]

Interesting find, my only hesitance being from the research methods (only two questions, sampling by phone which can be iffy [although it's good they hit both landlane and cell, etc.)

I don't think they can call cell numbers.  I could be wrong, but I've never got a solicitation on my cell phone, but got plenty on my land line when I had that.

I get political calls on my cell phone all the time, most likely because I do not have a land line.

Also, that site says I'm 3.31%, surprises me.

[antigoon]

Goon: I'm moderate left. If anything, I think people on the extremes of either end of the spectrum most out of touch with political realities.

I'm not talking about people like you. Obviously, you and the other moderates that visit this subforum are informed. I can't find the book I'm looking for that had the studies in it, but it goes against the conventional wisdom you're purporting. The ends of the spectrum are most politically active and therefore most informed, whereas most of the middle is unactive and uninformed.

I'll update the post if I find what I'm looking for. G'damn college books all disappearing on me.

[Scheavo]

Edit: I actually favor the 99% Declaration less. I mean no lobbies? Maybe no lobbies for corporate entities or something, but there shouldn't be a complete abolition of lobbying. How the hell would anyone advocate for anything en masse?

Present your case to the media; if your issue is of actual merit, it'll make it's way to the floor of congress on it's own accord. Have a protest, do other things, but lobbying is basically corruption, and that is unacceptable. The only way to get things done should not be by throwing money at congress.

Edit 2: Upon a review of the New York document (and particularly its comments section), I've come to a fascinating realization: they're all unqualified to offer a better alternative. Tea Party, Occupy movement, doesn't matter. All of them composed by people with very little real political education and with a penchant for conspiracy theories. I mean ffs, ending the Fed is a bad thing. Eliminating the ability to lobby is a bad thing. Not all wars are for "blood money," and sometimes national security really is under threat.

Actually, I'm all for ending the Fed - considering they didn't end many of the function of the Fed, they're just giving it back to the Government, i.e the Treasury Department. I agree that getting rid of a national bank is a horrible idea, but the Fed is completely fucking corrupt. Do you know that it gives out 16 TRILLION in secret bail outs to Wall Street and foreign banks?

[antigoon]

I'd like to bring Greenspan back from the dead just so I could shoot him in the face.

[PraXis]

Interesting find, my only hesitance being from the research methods (only two questions, sampling by phone which can be iffy [although it's good they hit both landlane and cell, etc.)

I don't think they can call cell numbers.  I could be wrong, but I've never got a solicitation on my cell phone, but got plenty on my land line when I had that.

I get political calls on my cell phone all the time, most likely because I do not have a land line.

Also, that site says I'm 3.31%, surprises me.

It really puts into perspective how much better off we are in this country than in many other parts of the world.