Wall Street Protests

[orcus116]

I wouldn't suggest being a teacher of anything nowadays. Shy away from education, sir.

[73109]

I want to be a college professor. I am uber fucked.

[Riceball]

So, getting back into the discussion re: protests (I always miss out on the good stuff), has it become apparent that these protesters aren't actually protesting anything? That's the impression that I got from having a sniff around their website, the group appears to be some kind of rabble without a cause.

You* can blame capitalism for your woes all you like, but remember all of the good stuff that its bought you over the years.

And, realistically, whats the alternative? Every other system: imperialism, dictatorships, communism, autocracy; has been shown to provide short bursts of upside before the same ills that are affecting America's capitalist model right now tear it all down. The best part about American capitalism is that there are checks and balances in place - there's always "an out", for lack of a better word.

Socialism, I hear you cry! Yes, socialism works well, as well as capitalism IMO. But, to be a socialist society you need to accept bigger governments, bigger tax burdens and ease up a bit on the individualism - all of which, from what I've read, Americans don't want.

So lets be a bit more pragmatic. Do things need to change? Yes.
- Banks can't be allowed to do what they like, using mum-and-dads money to speculate.
- Ratings agencies have far too much pull (bordering on religious, for mine).
- In the US, at least, lobbyists appear to have too much pull.
- Politicians are out of touch, but thats because joe average doesn't understand the issues.

But is there a need to flip the system on its head, just because you aren't 100% happy 100% of the time with what your policy makers dish up? Please.

Democracy is slow, but as has been said its intended to be slow, so you get the right change at the end of the road. You want quick decisions, hand all power to a single entity and let them make all of the rules. Howd that work out last time?

Hopefully thats give this thread a bit of a kick along, not that I don't like discussing pointless degrees (I'm glad noones mentioned economics yet).

*I don't mean you as in you guys ITT, I mean you as in those protesting.

[Riceball]

This threads been Riceball'd

 

[7StringedBeast]

Good post Riceball.  I fully agree with everything you said.

[MetalMike06]

1. Capitalism is what is causing the massive rich/poor gap in America. It allocates most of the country's wealth to the upper few percent, leaving the lower percent to suffer miserably.

I know this has been said repeatedly...Corporatism =/= capitalism. There are a million other factors that go into why things are the way they are.

[73109]

I'm assuming you did not read my response to bosk when he commented and basically said the same thing you did.

[juice]

This thread might as well be "The Political and Whatever Else You Can Think of Thread."

[emindead]

I wouldn't suggest being a teacher of anything nowadays. Shy away from education, sir.

Well, at least in the US.

[Rathma]

So lets be a bit more pragmatic. Do things need to change? Yes.
- Banks can't be allowed to do what they like, using mum-and-dads money to speculate.
- Ratings agencies have far too much pull (bordering on religious, for mine).
- In the US, at least, lobbyists appear to have too much pull.
- Politicians are out of touch, but thats because joe average doesn't understand the issues.

Agree with all of these. Add the prosecuting, fining and imprisoning of criminal bankers.

[PraXis]

So, I really want to teach music at a high school level, but I know it could easily be really hard to find an opening for that.

Would it be safe enough to be willing to teach a normal person subject, as a backup plan?

Teaching is fine if you know what state to move to (i.e where there's demand in good neighborhoods). I would recommend regular, all-around subject teaching and enhance that with music.. you can always make cash on the side teaching an instrument.. if you want to be a professor than it's very difficult and will require $ and a PhD.

[7StringedBeast]

Proof that this movement is a complete joke.

https://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/

From their own website.  Their list of demands.  Have fun with the LOLs

[orcus116]

Isn't that the list of one guy's opinions? I remember seeing that and how ridiculous some of those demands were.

[7StringedBeast]

hmm yeah I guess it might just be one guy's opinion.  Still freaking lolzworthy.

[Cool Chris]

There is a small group of these 'protesters' by my bus stop. It looks like a homeless camp. A bunch of tents spread out, people in shabby clothing milling around. There were only a couple signs, and they were all unrelated HEALTH CARE FOR ALL; END THE FED; DOWN WITH WALL STREET. There appeared to be no organization, no unified message, nothing to make anyone take them seriously.

The cops threatened to arrest them, not sure on what cause. They might not have a permit to camp out in a public park for days on end. I despise any protest that interupts me getting to/from work, but these guys don't. I walk by them every day and they don't impede me in any way.

[zepp-head]

Proof that this movement is a complete joke.

https://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/

From their own website.  Their list of demands.  Have fun with the LOLs

Yeah that's the same thing I posted a few pages back.

[William Wallace]

David Harsanyi puts bitches in place. https://reason.com/archives/2011/10/05/occupy-wall-street-a-manifesto

My favorite line:

First, we are imbued with as many inalienable rights as a few thousand college kids and a gaggle of borderline celebrities can concoct, among them a guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment and immediate across-the-board debt forgiveness—even if that debt was acquired taking on a mortgage with a 4.1 percent interest rate and no money down, which, we admit, is a pretty sweet deal in historical context...

...but down with the modern gilded age!

[orcus116]

The next two are pretty great as well:

We demand that a Master of Fine Arts in musical theater writing, with a minor in German, become an immutable human right, because education is crucial and rich people can afford to fund unemployment checks until we find jobs or in perpetuity, whichever comes first.

We demand a minimum wage of $10, no ... make it $20. We earned it. And we demand the end of "profiteering," because there is no better way to end joblessness than stopping the growth of capital. We also demand a maximum wage law, because selfish American dreams need a firm ceiling.

The first one represents exactly the type of people I envision actually attending these things.

In fact this whole protest reminds me of the very end of the Walmart episode of South Park where the mob burns down the Walmart, proclaims their allegiance to the mom and pop store, and when the mom and pop store becomes too big they burn that down too.

[Nick]

Jon Stewart had a great opening segment last night on Fox News and how they have portrayed these protests and how they portray the Tea Party.

https://www.thedailyshow.com/

Segment is called Parks and Demonstration.

[Super Dude]

Fuckin' A. Jon Stewart knows where it's at.

Edit: I see there's a map in that video: New York, Boston, Chicago, Columbus, LA...shit, this thing is spreading like wildfire (I think someone in the video might've said that, actually ).

[antigoon]

it's laughable how hard people are trying to delegitimize and dismiss this by creating ridiculous, sweeping caricatures of the protesters (and their goals) that in no way reflect the actual make-up of people there.

[William Wallace]

it's laughable how hard people are trying to delegitimize and dismiss this by creating ridiculous, sweeping caricatures of the protesters (and their goals) that in no way reflect the actual make-up of people there.

Their demands do that better than anybody at Fox could hope to. $20 minimum wage? For serious?

[antigoon]

"Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands."

[Sigz]

  Seriously, I thought it was established the day that 'list' came up that it was just some tard on the internet, nothing official or organized.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

[antigoon]

cute.

[Orion1967]

it's laughable how hard people are trying to delegitimize and dismiss this by creating ridiculous, sweeping caricatures of the protesters (and their goals) that in no way reflect the actual make-up of people there.

Enlighten me then. 

[Orion1967]

Arguably, it's fundamentally the same thing. Authority = government in this case.

So, even though we all know that they ARE different, on the surface it appears to be the same in principle.

BTW, you insult Super Dude again and I will send you back to the dark ages

But it's ok the other way around (not this one case but others)?

I didnt read it as an insult, simply an opinion. 

[Super Dude]

It's an opinion to say I have the IQ of a 4th grader? Well this should be interesting.

[Orion1967]

It's an opinion to say I have the IQ of a 4th grader? Well this should be interesting.

Much like it was an opinion to say "No offense to the libertarians on board, but I can't tell the difference between libertarian disdain for government and anarchist disdain for authority."

So, unless you DO in fact have a 4th grade I.Q. (which none of us believe to be true I don't think... I find your arguments aggravating at times but you are certainly very intelligent) then yes it is an opinion.

Insofar as your statement about not understanding the differences (so you say), I tend to think your statement more indented to be inflammatory or at least a jab to get a rise out of libertarians and he responded in like kind.  He did not say "SUPER-DUDE, you have the intelligence of a 4th grader" he said that (And I quote) "A couple minutes of research/4th grade or above thinking would rememdy that"  nowhere in there do I see him saying you have the IQ of a fourth grader. 

What I DO see is a suggestion that on the particular topic at hand, you are taking a very juvenilistic approach to your statement.  I tend to agree, believing that you could have put more effort and eloquence into it, but thats just me

[kirksnosehair]

Proof that this movement is a complete joke.

https://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/

From their own website.  Their list of demands.  Have fun with the LOLs

Er, from that very web page:

"Admin note: This is not an official list of demands.  This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly.  There is NO official list of demands."

[7StringedBeast]

Yeah I think we got the memo on that list of demands already.

[juice]

If they plan on getting anything done they have to have a clear message about what they want.  So far they've yet to do that.

[Super Dude]

It's an opinion to say I have the IQ of a 4th grader? Well this should be interesting.

Much like it was an opinion to say "No offense to the libertarians on board, but I can't tell the difference between libertarian disdain for government and anarchist disdain for authority."

So, unless you DO in fact have a 4th grade I.Q. (which none of us believe to be true I don't think... I find your arguments aggravating at times but you are certainly very intelligent) then yes it is an opinion.

Insofar as your statement about not understanding the differences (so you say), I tend to think your statement more indented to be inflammatory or at least a jab to get a rise out of libertarians and he responded in like kind.  He did not say "SUPER-DUDE, you have the intelligence of a 4th grader" he said that (And I quote) "A couple minutes of research/4th grade or above thinking would rememdy that"  nowhere in there do I see him saying you have the IQ of a fourth grader. 

What I DO see is a suggestion that on the particular topic at hand, you are taking a very juvenilistic approach to your statement.  I tend to agree, believing that you could have put more effort and eloquence into it, but thats just me

Uh yeah about that: I actually did not know the difference.  Both, from what I understood prior to my post, advocated for reduction in government in such degree that I personally find extreme.  Therefore, I wanted someone who actually considers themselves a libertarian, someone who would be adequately informed about the ideology, to clarify.  I'm not sure what I did wrong but if the only thing you're interested in is implicating me and insulting me, then I'll just stop asking questions and stick to my incomplete understandings of libertarianism and anything else I might be curious about.

I innocently asked what the difference was; I'm very sorry I did.

[Riceball]

Friday morning brainwave: what does 'down with the Fed' actually mean? Is it an assault against the notion of a central bank, or is it more like durp we h8 banks so lets bring down the biggest*?

*note I'm not saying the Fed is the biggest bank, I'm a tad more informed than that...