Wall Street Protests

[Super Dude]

 

[7StringedBeast]

I went down to these "protests" yesterday and I have to say its a complete fucking joke.  They aren't protesting anything.  It's a bunch of people with nothing better to do who feel like they are part of something because they are doing a sit in.  They are smoking weed out in the open (no wonder why there have been arrests), dressed up in weird costumes, and are basically doing nothing.

They have no goal, they have no defined thing that they are protesting.  It's a big fucking mess.  You go down there and you are just going to see 100 half baked philosophies and slogans around from people who are basically there to just complain about THE MAN.

I liken it to the South Park episode where Canada goes on strike and just demands more money.  Except, at least they were focused in their demand.

So basically these protests are just a big joke and there is no real movement going on.  Just a bunch of kids who really don't understand the economy and how it works who want to get on TV.

[Orion1967]

I didn't think people became that jaded until they hit 50...at least!

Meanwhile, why exactly is the Constitution, "America's Bible?" Talk about an old, outdated document that needs a good burning...or at least a rewrite. If George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, and Ben Franklin knew we were still using what they wrote as a means to govern the country, they'd shoot themselves.

You DO realize that the constitution is re-written all the time right? Amendments and such? I sure you have heard of them. 

But to answer your question as to why the constitution is "America's Bible" is because that document is what defines our society and method of government. Additionally I am pretty sure that the founding fathers and authors of the constitution WOULD be suprised to see that they got it right and thier framework for a country has proven thus far to be one of the most successful models for how to run a country.  Just a thought.

[Orion1967]

I went down to these "protests" yesterday and I have to say its a complete fucking joke.  They aren't protesting anything.  It's a bunch of people with nothing better to do who feel like they are part of something because they are doing a sit in.  They are smoking weed out in the open (no wonder why there have been arrests), dressed up in weird costumes, and are basically doing nothing.

They have no goal, they have no defined thing that they are protesting.  It's a big fucking mess.  You go down there and you are just going to see 100 half baked philosophies and slogans around from people who are basically there to just complain about THE MAN.

I liken it to the South Park episode where Canada goes on strike and just demands more money.  Except, at least they were focused in their demand.

So basically these protests are just a big joke and there is no real movement going on.  Just a bunch of kids who really don't understand the economy and how it works who want to get on TV.

Hannity did a phone interview with this 18 year old chick from Jacksonville that was at the protest.  OMG the complete lack of understanding of the real world was baffling.  All she could spout was she was protesting the rich and that they should pay more taxes so poor kids dont live on the street.   Her circular logic was quite irritating but you just couldnt turn the channel.... kind of like passing a train wreck, you know you shouldn't slow down and look but you can't help yourself....

[El Barto]

Additionally I am pretty sure that the founding fathers and authors of the constitution WOULD be suprised to see that they got it right and thier framework for a country has proven thus far to be one of the most successful models for how to run a country.  Just a thought.

The founding fathers would be suicidally despondent over what we've become.  As for being successful,  I'd suggest that we've already failed.  Denial just lasts longer with some than it does with others.  We've got a government that doesn't work for the people, yet is so entrenched that we're stuck with it.  Furthermore,  we've created a race of people who's idea of solving the problem is to dress up like zombies and stand around in front of rich people.  Yet all the while,  most of the population chants the greatest nation on Earth mantra while insisting that they're still free.

[Super Dude]

I went down to these "protests" yesterday and I have to say its a complete fucking joke.  They aren't protesting anything.  It's a bunch of people with nothing better to do who feel like they are part of something because they are doing a sit in.  They are smoking weed out in the open (no wonder why there have been arrests), dressed up in weird costumes, and are basically doing nothing.

They have no goal, they have no defined thing that they are protesting.  It's a big fucking mess.  You go down there and you are just going to see 100 half baked philosophies and slogans around from people who are basically there to just complain about THE MAN.

I liken it to the South Park episode where Canada goes on strike and just demands more money.  Except, at least they were focused in their demand.

So basically these protests are just a big joke and there is no real movement going on.  Just a bunch of kids who really don't understand the economy and how it works who want to get on TV.

Hannity did a phone interview with this 18 year old chick from Jacksonville that was at the protest.  OMG the complete lack of understanding of the real world was baffling.  All she could spout was she was protesting the rich and that they should pay more taxes so poor kids dont live on the street.   Her circular logic was quite irritating but you just couldnt turn the channel.... kind of like passing a train wreck, you know you shouldn't slow down and look but you can't help yourself....

You should kinda expect that from an 18 year-old, I think.  Real political knowledge comes around college or so.

[bosk1]

I think it's rather naive to assume that whatever age group you are presently in or have just recently "graduated" from is the age at which you obtain "real" knowledge of any given subject.  Just sayin'.

[zepp-head]

El Barto, that was beautiful in the saddest of ways. 

[Super Dude]

I think it's rather naive to assume that whatever age group you are presently in or have just recently "graduated" from is the age at which you obtain "real" knowledge of any given subject.  Just sayin'.

How many high school kids have you met with real political knowledge?  I believe there may actually be something to what I said, as a result of voting registration age.

[El Barto]

El Barto, that was beautiful in the saddest of ways.

Yeah,  I do that sometimes.   

[7StringedBeast]

I think it's rather naive to assume that whatever age group you are presently in or have just recently "graduated" from is the age at which you obtain "real" knowledge of any given subject.  Just sayin'.

How many high school kids have you met with real political knowledge?  I believe there may actually be something to what I said, as a result of voting registration age.

How many college students have you met with real political knowledge?  I'm going to guess there are more college students who are clueless to politics than students who actually have a good handle on what happens in politics.

[Super Dude]

Hey, maybe my data is skewed because my college is especially politically active. (And it may be a stupid stipulation, but it may have something to do with going to a school in the Greater Boston Area)

[Nick]

I think you guys are both missing the point. When we go through life we always reach a level and think to ourselves, "Wow, I know a lot now, and I don't believe in all the same things I did 1, 2, or 5 years ago". And that happens constantly in our life. Sometime we go back to old beliefs and we often keep moving forward. The point being it is contradictory to the learning process and to those realizations to actually pin down a point where you think you've got it all, because you never do and never will.

[7StringedBeast]

The point is, 98% of the wall street protesters are clueless and it is not a real movement.  This is why the media doesn't cover it.  Because truthfully, having seen it, there is nothing going on there that is worthy of news coverage.

I hear people screaming on the web about how the media is censoring these protests and they compare them to the Egypt uprising.  And after going down to see it for myself all I have to say is HOLY LOL.

[ariich]

Hey, maybe my data is skewed because my college is especially politically active. (And it may be a stupid stipulation, but it may have something to do with going to a school in the Greater Boston Area)

Being politically active in no way means a greater understanding. In fact if anything, university age students here are more idealist and naive/ignorant about how the world actually works. Most protests here in the UK suffer from the same problems that 7SB is talking about, with a total lack of focus or clarity around what is actually being protested.

[PraXis]

After thinking about people I've been around in grade school, high school, college, the professional world, the fact is that 95% of people under 25 are absolutely useless. Raising the voting age to 25 would be a great thing.

[Orion1967]

Hey, maybe my data is skewed because my college is especially politically active. (And it may be a stupid stipulation, but it may have something to do with going to a school in the Greater Boston Area)

Being politically active in no way means a greater understanding. In fact if anything, university age students here are more idealist and naive/ignorant about how the world actually works. Most protests here in the UK suffer from the same problems that 7SB is talking about, with a total lack of focus or clarity around what is actually being protested.

Here here, well said ariich.  Everyone speaks from their perspective on things which is mostly an opinion based upon their own life experiences and observations.  I think it is great that university kids are idealist but they need to be tempered with a little dose of reality.  They need to approach a view with the understanding that in 18 - 22 years of life they have not had enough experiences to be completely objective (I don't think that any of us really ever are to be honest no matter what the age) or even understand the ramifications of an extremist point of view on a given topic or subject. 

[Orion1967]

After thinking about people I've been around in grade school, high school, college, the professional world, the fact is that 95% of people under 25 are absolutely useless. Raising the voting age to 25 would be a great thing.

For the most part I would have to say I agree with this statement....

on that note.... 

[PraXis]

After thinking about people I've been around in grade school, high school, college, the professional world, the fact is that 95% of people under 25 are absolutely useless. Raising the voting age to 25 would be a great thing.

For the most part I would have to say I agree with this statement....

on that note.... 

I was just speaking in general, but I think kids have gotten much worse. I can only imagine what they are teaching them in our schools to account for the loose morals and lack of respect.

[ariich]

After thinking about people I've been around in grade school, high school, college, the professional world, the fact is that 95% of people under 25 are absolutely useless. Raising the voting age to 25 would be a great thing.

Praxis, you've been warned about being disrespectful so let's not go down the route of ridiculous generalisations. Plenty of over 25s are equally moronic with their opinions.

[PraXis]

After thinking about people I've been around in grade school, high school, college, the professional world, the fact is that 95% of people under 25 are absolutely useless. Raising the voting age to 25 would be a great thing.

Praxis, you've been warned about being disrespectful so let's not go down the route of ridiculous generalisations. Plenty of over 25s are equally moronic with their opinions.

Ok 

Should I just bash hippies? 

[bosk1]

After thinking about people I've been around in grade school, high school, college, the professional world, the fact is that 95% of people under 25 are absolutely useless. Raising the voting age to 25 would be a great thing.

For the most part I would have to say I agree with this statement....

on that note.... 

I strongly disagree.  My point above was simply that anyone in or recently just out of college smug enough to think they've got politics (or anything else, for that matter) figured out is merely too shortsighted to realize how wrong they are.  The issue isn't how much they know.  The issue I have a problem with is one of ignorance about how much they don't know.  And, really, that applies to any age group.

But is raising the voting age the answer?  No way.  College kids know exponentially more about politics than high school kids, for the most part.  Just like those who are out of school and have been working for a living for 5 or more years generally know exponentially more about politics than most college kids.  That's just the nature of things.  But one of the things that gets people to learn more about the system is allowing them to be invested in it no matter their political views, which the right to vote accomplishes. 

[El Barto]

But is raising the voting age the answer?  No way.  College kids know exponentially more about politics than high school kids, for the most part.  Just like those who are out of school and have been working for a living for 5 or more years generally know exponentially more about politics than most college kids.  That's just the nature of things.  But one of the things that gets people to learn more about the system is allowing them to be invested in it no matter their political views, which the right to vote accomplishes.

Not sure I agree with you there, Holmes.  It's not just a matter of understanding politics, but also having a grasp of common sense and the pragmatic reality of how things work.  Including youngsters in the system might well encourage them to learn more about whatever party their Rents didn't support, but that's a far cry from making reasonable decisions. 

That said,  none of this makes a bit of difference since none of those kids vote enough to matter.  The people appointing nimrods to our government are all fully grown adults in Iowa who, despite decades of life experience, still don't know shit. 

[PraXis]

A lot of college students also pick worthless majors.. so that contributes to the problem. By worthless I mean what the market and/or individual companies consider worthless, not my personal opinion on specific majors.

[Orion1967]

After thinking about people I've been around in grade school, high school, college, the professional world, the fact is that 95% of people under 25 are absolutely useless. Raising the voting age to 25 would be a great thing.

For the most part I would have to say I agree with this statement....

on that note.... 

I strongly disagree.  My point above was simply that anyone in or recently just out of college smug enough to think they've got politics (or anything else, for that matter) figured out is merely too shortsighted to realize how wrong they are.  The issue isn't how much they know.  The issue I have a problem with is one of ignorance about how much they don't know.  And, really, that applies to any age group.

But is raising the voting age the answer?  No way.  College kids know exponentially more about politics than high school kids, for the most part.  Just like those who are out of school and have been working for a living for 5 or more years generally know exponentially more about politics than most college kids.  That's just the nature of things.  But one of the things that gets people to learn more about the system is allowing them to be invested in it no matter their political views, which the right to vote accomplishes.

Yeah but there are pro's and cons to both sides of the argument. The number of 25 may be a bit much... (maybe 22?) It used to be waaay back in the day, in order to vote you had to be a land owner, white and a male to vote.  Of course I think that those restrictions are ridiculous but like you point out, at 18, how many kids have any idea of the real ramifications of their vote?  How many kids (and I refer to those 18 - 22is) really have any idea what it is they are voting about? I mean THEY believe with all their hearts they know everytihng there is to know and thier opinion/cause is rightous and just but the reality is they are helping craft our nation with thier vote and it is one that is lacking in practical experience and knowledge.  Now are there 18 year olds that are just as knowledgeable as you and I (and others)? sure there are but they are in the minority it has been my personal experience.

[emindead]

After thinking about people I've been around in grade school, high school, college, the professional world, the fact is that 95% of people under 25 are absolutely useless. Raising the voting age to 25 would be a great thing.

Praxis, you've been warned about being disrespectful so let's not go down the route of ridiculous generalisations. Plenty of over 25s are equally moronic with their opinions.

that's true.

[bosk1]

Yeah but there are pro's and cons to both sides of the argument. The number of 25 may be a bit much... (maybe 22?) It used to be waaay back in the day, in order to vote you had to be a land owner, white and a male to vote.  Of course I think that those restrictions are ridiculous but like you point out, at 18, how many kids have any idea of the real ramifications of their vote?  How many kids (and I refer to those 18 - 22is) really have any idea what it is they are voting about? I mean THEY believe with all their hearts they know everytihng there is to know and thier opinion/cause is rightous and just but the reality is they are helping craft our nation with thier vote and it is one that is lacking in practical experience and knowledge.  Now are there 18 year olds that are just as knowledgeable as you and I (and others)? sure there are but they are in the minority it has been my personal experience.

Those are very valid concerns, and I don't disagree that the system (and the nation as a whole) would greatly benefit by addressing them.  I just don't think that arbitrarily raising the voting age is necessarily the answer.  But that being said, I admit that I don't know what the answer is.

[ariich]

How many kids (and I refer to those 18 - 22is) really have any idea what it is they are voting about?

Yeah but how many adults really have an idea what it's all about, beyond "IT'S MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT AND I'M JUST GOING TO KEEP VOTING FOR THE SAME PARTY EVERY ELECTION WITHOUT ACTUALLY THINKING ABOUT IT"?

Most adults I know vote for the same party every single election. The good thing about the slightly more idealist approach that people in their 20s have is that they are actually willing to be swayed. Both age groups have pros and cons. Taking the vote away from one group would be hugely unfair.

[GuineaPig]

I think it's incredibly dumb that you can be old enough to serve in your country's military but not be old enough to have a drink.  Moving the voting age up would be 100x worse.

[antigoon]

How can we better inform the electorate?

[Sigz]

I think it's incredibly dumb that you can be old enough to serve in your country's military but not be old enough to have a drink.  Moving the voting age up would be 100x worse.

Not to mention the idea of raising the voting age while still forcing guys to register for the draft at 18.

[bosk1]

I think it's incredibly dumb that you can be old enough to serve in your country's military but not be old enough to have a drink. 

I get that.  But playing devil's advocate, one could argue it this way:  Using alcohol should require a sufficient amount of judgment and maturity to make sure it is used responsibly.  Being a lower ranking enlisted person in the military does NOT require judgment and maturity, but merely requires the ability to understand and follow orders.

Just sayin'.

[Orion1967]

How many kids (and I refer to those 18 - 22is) really have any idea what it is they are voting about?

Yeah but how many adults really have an idea what it's all about, beyond "IT'S MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT AND I'M JUST GOING TO KEEP VOTING FOR THE SAME PARTY EVERY ELECTION WITHOUT ACTUALLY THINKING ABOUT IT"?

Most adults I know vote for the same party every single election. The good thing about the slightly more idealist approach that people in their 20s have is that they are actually willing to be swayed. Both age groups have pros and cons. Taking the vote away from one group would be hugely unfair.

That is a valid point ariich, but I have yet to find a politically active/opinionated person in their 20's that had an open mind about much of anything that differs from thier opinion/belief, but I am open to finding one and being pleasantly suprised.

Regarding the over 20ish voters that vote like cattle, they also disgust me.  I often say that if you don't vote or have a dog in the fight then you have no right to have a say in how shit goes. I just feel that people in free countries that hold REAL elections just dont realize the wieght of what that means.  All I am saying is that the power to change a nation should rest (IMHO) with poeple responsible enough to make educated decisions.

[Orion1967]

I think it's incredibly dumb that you can be old enough to serve in your country's military but not be old enough to have a drink.  Moving the voting age up would be 100x worse.

Not to mention the idea of raising the voting age while still forcing guys to register for the draft at 18.

Simple solution to both problems.... raise the draft/enlistment/voting age to 22.   Problem solved.

[GuineaPig]

I think it's incredibly dumb that you can be old enough to serve in your country's military but not be old enough to have a drink. 

I get that.  But playing devil's advocate, one could argue it this way:  Using alcohol should require a sufficient amount of judgment and maturity to make sure it is used responsibly. Being a lower ranking enlisted person in the military does NOT require judgment and maturity, but merely requires the ability to understand and follow orders.

Just sayin'.

I think judgment and maturity are two rather important factors when one is in control of a weapon or weapons system.

I personally think wielding an M4 carbine is a bigger deal than wielding a beer bottle.

That voting and military service are considered less significant decisions than drinking is a totally fucked up way of looking at civic priorities.  I wish Canada would lower the drinking age to 16 or 14.