My problem with Breaking All Illusions

[bosk1]

This song has grown on me more than any other in the last week and a half.  It was originally my least favorite song on the album, but there is just so much cool stuff going on that it has grown on me tremendously.  But here's my major issue:  Musically, it builds up to a big, epic ending that just floors you.  But...lyrically, it ends with a whimper.  #1, that last "karma starts the signal" lyric is so hopelessly vague that I don't really have a clear idea what it means.  #2, musically, that epic ending sort of implied that a major point or ultimate resolution is coming, but the lyrics don't do that.  The lyrics just end the song making me feel like something else should be coming, but nothing else does.  I find myself at the end of the song saying, "okay, but...?" as opposed to the triumphant fist-pumping "yeah!" that the music implies.  Do people get what I'm saying?  Anyone else feel that way?

Again, not bashing the song at all.  I really like it a lot.  And I'm usually the last one to hate on DT lyrics, for the most part.  But this song's lyrics just leave me cold, especially the ending lyrics.

[BlobVanDam]

Given what I assume from the lyrics, I don't think it's supposed to have an ultimate resolution or definitive ending. I think it's almost supposed to be cyclical, or at least unresolved, hence the last line, and the way the song ends musically.

Almost like the music is building intentionally up to something that the song is not supposed to show, if that makes sense. It's building to inconclusion.

So I can see what you mean, but to me it feels purposeful, and meant to leave you hanging.

Also, I've had no sleep, so that may not make any sense.

[Marion Crane]

I agree 100%. It would be like Octavarium ending on "a perfect sphere" with no vocal and melodic resolution and no epic outro

[reneranucci]

I was ready to disagree but I have to agree. That last line is an awkward way to end the song. It leaves you hanging in the air.

[emindead]

Given what I assume from the lyrics, I don't think it's supposed to have an ultimate resolution or definitive ending. I think it's almost supposed to be cyclical, or at least unresolved, hence the last line, and the way the song ends musically.

Almost like the music is building intentionally up to something that the song is not supposed to show, if that makes sense. It's building to inconclusion.

It would be like Octavarium ending on "a perfect sphere" with no vocal and melodic resolution and no epic outro

Can of worms: opened. ADTOE is a concept album on how lyrics are not resolved and don't live to the hype behind the music.

[Sketchy]

I'll admit the last lyric is quite vague, but I like that. I love the lyrical style of JM songs.

[theseoafs]

Whatever "Karma starts the signal" means, the complete "embrace the days" chorus is decidedly climactic and resolute, I find.

EDIT: Wanna know why I don't have a problem with "Karma starts the signal", which is vague and admittedly weak? I much prefer JM's metaphorical stylings to DT's more recent lyrical stylings, which permit songs to be about car crashes and Tuscan counts, and nothing but car crashes and Tuscan counts.

[bosk1]

I was ready to disagree but I have to agree. That last line is an awkward way to end the song. It leaves you hanging in the air.

I'm hoping that I just don't get it and someone can clear it up for me.


@Emindead:  Quit the trolling.  It has been going on in a few threads.  This is your warning.

[Jamesman42]

It's all good, I dont care about the lyrics that much, the way he sings it is great

[The Silent Cody]

I just posted in official ADTOE thread that BAI is my least favourite from ADTOE.... it's a mess for me, particular parts played on it's own would be awesome, but as a full song.... doesn't fits...

[BlackInk]

The lyrics just end the song making me feel like something else should be coming, but nothing else does.  I find myself at the end of the song saying, "okay, but...?" as opposed to the triumphant fist-pumping "yeah!" that the music implies.  Do people get what I'm saying?  Anyone else feel that way?

This is my only problem with Outcry. I don't feel like Breaking All Illusions does this.

[reneranucci]

The lyrics just end the song making me feel like something else should be coming, but nothing else does.  I find myself at the end of the song saying, "okay, but...?" as opposed to the triumphant fist-pumping "yeah!" that the music implies.  Do people get what I'm saying?  Anyone else feel that way?

This is my only problem with Outcry. I don't feel like Breaking All Illusions does this.

This x10000000

[TAC]

Bosk, easily my fave track on the album, but you're right...the "Karma" line is a bit odd, especially after James' goosebump inducing tone during the "Life's true intent" line.

[visitor]

The lyrics just end the song making me feel like something else should be coming, but nothing else does.  I find myself at the end of the song saying, "okay, but...?" as opposed to the triumphant fist-pumping "yeah!" that the music implies.  Do people get what I'm saying?  Anyone else feel that way?

This is my only problem with Outcry. I don't feel like Breaking All Illusions does this.

This x10000000

x10000000?? really?? isn't x1000 big enough? what if I answered with x10000000000000?  would that make me more appreciative?  is there a scale I can reference this number to to understand the gravity of your appreciation?

[ddtonfire]

#1, that last "karma starts the signal" lyric is so hopelessly vague that I don't really have a clear idea what it means.  #2, musically, that epic ending sort of implied that a major point or ultimate resolution is coming, but the lyrics don't do that.  The lyrics just end the song making me feel like something else should be coming, but nothing else does. 

That would be JMX setting you up for Breaking All Illusions, pt. II.

[theseoafs]

#1, that last "karma starts the signal" lyric is so hopelessly vague that I don't really have a clear idea what it means.  #2, musically, that epic ending sort of implied that a major point or ultimate resolution is coming, but the lyrics don't do that.  The lyrics just end the song making me feel like something else should be coming, but nothing else does. 

That would be JMX setting you up for Breaking All Illusions, pt. II.

Scenes from a Bass Solo

[Mladen]

Yeah, I also have no idea what ''Karma starts the signal'' means. However, that last words are finely counterbalanced by previous lines ''Embrace the days, don't turn away, life's true intent needs patience.'' So when the last line is sung, I just don't care about it, I just assume it has something to do with the rest of the lyrics. John Myung knows what it means, so that's good enough for me. 

If it's setting us for part two, that's great. 

[Marion Crane]

OK this could open a bigger can of worms but here it goes....

There are several threads about things on the record that we don't like about certain parts of the album.  Off hand, a few things I'll mention are the current thread about the end of BAI, the end of Outcry, the "gift divine" part of TITL, the intro to BITS, the unison at the beginning of LNF, etc.  A big one for me (which I'm pretty sure we all expected when we heard it the first time) is the last chorus of Beneath the Surface.  I totally expected the full band to kick in with the vocals.  Big epic strings, heavy guitars, soaring outro lead by JP ala Octavarium, Spirit, TMOLS, etc.  But we didn't get that.  But we expected it (most of us I think).....

I pretty much chalk those things up to them trying to make make the quintessential DT record, but having the same mindset that the fans had when they heard I&W or Awake or ACOS for the first time.  Or anything from DT for that matter.  I think they wanted to make an album less predictable than their past few efforts.  And in that, they succeeded IMO.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong.  I still think the end of BTS totally should be fullband.  But I respect them for raising my eyebrows a few more times than normal.

Thoughts?

[TheOutlawXanadu]

My problem with Breaking All Illusions is that the first half always makes me think of Learning to Live. I'm not even sure if that's a problem.

[theseoafs]

I pretty much chalk those things up to them trying to make make the quintessential DT record, but having the same mindset that the fans had when they heard I&W or Awake or ACOS for the first time.  Or anything from DT for that matter.  I think they wanted to make an album less predictable than their past few efforts.  And in that, they succeeded IMO.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong.  I still think the end of BTS totally should be fullband.  But I respect them for raising my eyebrows a few more times than normal.

Thinking the band should have done something differently (especially because they didn't do something you predicted) is never a legitimate criticism.

Fact is, this album is not predictable. That's a good thing. The songs aren't formulaic and make a point to surprise you.

[Marion Crane]

I pretty much chalk those things up to them trying to make make the quintessential DT record, but having the same mindset that the fans had when they heard I&W or Awake or ACOS for the first time.  Or anything from DT for that matter.  I think they wanted to make an album less predictable than their past few efforts.  And in that, they succeeded IMO.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong.  I still think the end of BTS totally should be fullband.  But I respect them for raising my eyebrows a few more times than normal.

Thinking the band should have done something differently (especially because they didn't do something you predicted) is never a legitimate criticism.

Fact is, this album is not predictable. That's a good thing. The songs aren't formulaic and make a point to surprise you.

Oh it does surprise me.  I just think the end of BAI would sound better and round out the song better with the full band, which is coincidentally what I thought they would do.  I still respect the humbleness of it though.  They kept it simple, which is a change for them.  I respect that.

[bosk1]

A big one for me (which I'm pretty sure we all expected when we heard it the first time) is the last chorus of Beneath the Surface.  I totally expected the full band to kick in with the vocals.  Big epic strings, heavy guitars, soaring outro lead by JP ala Octavarium, Spirit, TMOLS, etc.  But we didn't get that.  But we expected it (most of us I think).....

I like that they keep it fairly stripped down and simple.  The vocals modulating up an octave raises the tension in the song just enough.  I don't think it needs more.  It really ends the album on a nice serene note that is unusual, but very welcome.

My problem with Breaking All Illusions is that the first half always makes me think of Learning to Live. I'm not even sure if that's a problem.

  I know exactly what you mean.  I was actually just talking to Scotty on the phone about this very same issue yesterday.  It isn't a "problem," but I do find it distracting because there is plenty of awesomeness to appreciate in this song, and rather than just being able to appreciate it by itself, I find myself unable to stop subconsciously comparing it to LTL.  Again, not a bad thing, but just a bit distracting.

[theseoafs]

I pretty much chalk those things up to them trying to make make the quintessential DT record, but having the same mindset that the fans had when they heard I&W or Awake or ACOS for the first time.  Or anything from DT for that matter.  I think they wanted to make an album less predictable than their past few efforts.  And in that, they succeeded IMO.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong.  I still think the end of BTS totally should be fullband.  But I respect them for raising my eyebrows a few more times than normal.

Thinking the band should have done something differently (especially because they didn't do something you predicted) is never a legitimate criticism.

Fact is, this album is not predictable. That's a good thing. The songs aren't formulaic and make a point to surprise you.

Oh it does surprise me.  I just think the end of BAI would sound better and round out the song better with the full band, which is coincidentally what I thought they would do.  I still respect the humbleness of it though.  They kept it simple, which is a change for them.  I respect that.

For what it's worth, if this song is ever played live, DT will likely perform it with a full band, as they did with some performances of The Silent Man and Wait for Sleep. THAT will be cool.

[Jaffa]

I have absolutely no idea what the last line is supposed to mean, but I like the feeling it leaves me with. 

[Pols Voice]

The lyrics just end the song making me feel like something else should be coming, but nothing else does.  I find myself at the end of the song saying, "okay, but...?" as opposed to the triumphant fist-pumping "yeah!" that the music implies.  Do people get what I'm saying?  Anyone else feel that way?

This is my only problem with Outcry. I don't feel like Breaking All Illusions does this.

Yeah. The end of Outcry seems somewhat anticlimactic. It's not a big deal, though.

[reneranucci]

I have absolutely no idea what the last line is supposed to mean, but I like the feeling it leaves me with.

I live the way James delivers that last line.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Given what I assume from the lyrics, I don't think it's supposed to have an ultimate resolution or definitive ending. I think it's almost supposed to be cyclical, or at least unresolved, hence the last line, and the way the song ends musically.

Almost like the music is building intentionally up to something that the song is not supposed to show, if that makes sense. It's building to inconclusion.

It would be like Octavarium ending on "a perfect sphere" with no vocal and melodic resolution and no epic outro

Can of worms: opened. ADTOE is a concept album on how lyrics are not resolved and don't live to the hype behind the music.

So, you don't like ADTOE?


Oh yes! Now I remember, from other 15 of your posts on the subject matter.

[hefdaddy42]

Given what I assume from the lyrics, I don't think it's supposed to have an ultimate resolution or definitive ending. I think it's almost supposed to be cyclical, or at least unresolved, hence the last line, and the way the song ends musically.

Almost like the music is building intentionally up to something that the song is not supposed to show, if that makes sense. It's building to inconclusion.

So I can see what you mean, but to me it feels purposeful, and meant to leave you hanging.

This.  It is refreshingly unconventional.  I love it.

[aXygnus]

#1, that last "karma starts the signal" lyric is so hopelessly vague that I don't really have a clear idea what it means.  #2, musically, that epic ending sort of implied that a major point or ultimate resolution is coming, but the lyrics don't do that.  The lyrics just end the song making me feel like something else should be coming, but nothing else does. 

That would be JMX setting you up for Breaking All Illusions, pt. II.

I felt that as well. That is, if you're not being sarcastic.

[gmillerdrake]

I'll admit the last lyric is quite vague, but I like that. I love the lyrical style of JM songs.

I thought that line sounded like something that JP would have added, and being that he co-wrote the lyrics it may be possible that is why the song seems lyrically disjointed. The opening verse(s) to me scream JMX. But that last line in particular seems like it is out of place like boski says....that's why my vote is that its a JP lyric

[kon_jakae]

.

[Jaffa]

(Karma starts the signal= we are human, we have sufferings as our nature and we need time to learn to eliminate misperceptions.)[/b]

Very cool post and an interesting interpretation, but I still don't see how you get that from 'karma starts the signal.' 

[Samsara]

No problem with the lyric. It's the instrumental break I have an issue with.

[kon_jakae]

.

[ZBomber]

That was a big problem for me with TCOT... lyrically, the ending is just so.... unmoving. On the other hand, 8VM and ACOS ended on very strong lyrical ends.

As for BAI, I havent paid attention to any of the lyrics on the album yet.