The 'Music is Objective/Subjective' lol thread

[Sigz]

To not derail the metal thread anymore, just continue it here.

[Zantera]

I don't really know what there is to discuss, seeing quality is obviously something subjective. 

[Sigz]

Apparently some people think otherwise, though I still don't understand why or how.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

There is no conceivable way this thread could turn out good.

[Sigz]

No, but it's better than running PC's thread into the ground.

[Zook]

KrotchRaut is objectively the most brutal band in the universe.

[Jamesman42]

i am drunk so music is subjective

logic for the winn!

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

No, but it's better than running PC's thread into the ground.

True.

[zxlkho]

I was going to post this in the other thread, but then I realized this thread was here:



Do you guys need an example of subjectivity?
I think the new Dream Theater album is not good. Am I correct? Yes.
You think the new Dream Theater album is good. Are you correct? Yes.
How fucking hard is this concept, people.

[Jamesman42]

stop its too hard how do you solve x +5 = 9 halp

[Zantera]

To be honest, objectivity comes from facts.
Subjectivity comes from opinions, and I don't get how people get it mixed up.

[Jamesman42]

i think the onluy thing people can tink of is statistical facts. say for dream theatre, if you were to make a poll of their best albums which one is best album, images and words would win,. that is objective data, but is it the best album? hmmmmm

[Zook]

stop its too hard how do you solve x +5 = 9 halp

Fuck yeah 4!!!!

I are smert!

[zxlkho]

i think the onluy thing people can tink of is statistical facts. say for dream theatre, if you were to make a poll of their best albums which one is best album, images and words would win,. that is objective data, but is it the best album? hmmmmm

That is NOT objective at all. It's just a statistic of everyone's subjective opinions.

If someone said Systematic Chaos was DT's best album, I would call them an idiot, but they would also be just as right as someone who said I&W was the best.

[Jamesman42]

i know i was being stupid because statistics are objective data about subjective things

[Zantera]

The problem is that popular is not a measure in quality.
No matter what the topic is, a certain band or album, a movie, or whatever, it's all about individual opinions about what's good, and what isn't good.

Ryan already gave a good example with the new DT-album, and I don't think there's enough BS to back up such a crazy idea as music being objective.

[Heretic]

I was going to post this in the other thread, but then I realized this thread was here:



Do you guys need an example of subjectivity?
I think the new Dream Theater album is not good. Am I correct? Yes.
You think the new Dream Theater album is good. Are you correct? Yes.
How fucking hard is this concept, people.

someone needs to listen to the new DT album a few more times

[Ħ]

It's a belief vs knowledge issue, in my mind.  I believe that grass is green.  Is it? Well, I don't know for sure, but I can reasonably say so.

Same with music.  I think with 75% certainty that LTL is objectively better than YNM, even though there's no way to know that empirically. 

Obviously, we can't rid ourselves of our subjective perspectives, but we do the best we can to guess at reality.

[zxlkho]

I was going to post this in the other thread, but then I realized this thread was here:



Do you guys need an example of subjectivity?
I think the new Dream Theater album is not good. Am I correct? Yes.
You think the new Dream Theater album is good. Are you correct? Yes.
How fucking hard is this concept, people.

someone needs to listen to the new DT album a few more times

Why?

(If you say it's because it's "objectively good" I'll hit you)

It's a belief vs knowledge issue, in my mind.  I believe that grass is green.  Is it? Well, I don't know for sure, but I can reasonably say so.

Same with music.  I think with 75% certainty that LTL is objectively better than YNM, even though there's no way to know that empirically. 

Obviously, we can't rid ourselves of our subjective perspectives, but we do the best we can to guess at reality.

You're still missing the point. Someone could easily say that You Not Me is better than Learning to Live and they'd be 100% correct, just as they would be correct if it were the opposite.

[Ħ]

You're using the conclusion of your argument as the premise to your argument.

[zxlkho]

What? No I'm not. I'm just saying that EVERYTHING (in terms of quality) is subjective. To say otherwise is just ridiculous.

[Jamesman42]

LOLOLOL

[Sigz]

H, you still haven't shown how quality itself can ever be objective. Going off the food example, why is it that nutritional food is inherently good.

[Jamesman42]

vital amino acids

[Jamesman42]

AKA VITAMAINS

[Heretic]

I was going to post this in the other thread, but then I realized this thread was here:



Do you guys need an example of subjectivity?
I think the new Dream Theater album is not good. Am I correct? Yes.
You think the new Dream Theater album is good. Are you correct? Yes.
How fucking hard is this concept, people.

someone needs to listen to the new DT album a few more times

Why?

(If you say it's because it's "objectively good" I'll hit you)

because it's objectively good

brrrrrrrrrrrrt seriously I think a lot of people here were the same as you on their first few listens-- but after repeated listens it really sits well. I mean, seeing as your favorite DT album is Images and Words, and there's a lot reminscent of that here, I'd definitely recommend you spin it a few times and try and digest everything going on. It disappointed me on first listen, too, but I've grown to think it's pretty amazing. Especially the last four songs.

[zxlkho]

I'll probably listen to it again at some point. Maybe tomorrow.

[73109]

I've always hated the idea of an outside observer whose words were law. I hated that when discussing morality as well. When it comes down to it, everything is subjective.

[zxlkho]

I've always hated the idea of an outside observer whose words were law. I hated that when discussing morality as well. When it comes down to it, everything is subjective.

Exactly this. I also hate when people think there's some set of objective morals.

[Zook]

I've always hated the idea of an outside observer whose words were law. I hated that when discussing morality as well. When it comes down to it, everything is subjective.

Exactly this. I also hate when people think there's some set of objective morals.

It's objectively rude to spit in someone's face.

[zxlkho]

I've always hated the idea of an outside observer whose words were law. I hated that when discussing morality as well. When it comes down to it, everything is subjective.

Exactly this. I also hate when people think there's some set of objective morals.

It's objectively rude to spit in someone's face.

Nope. Not objective.

[73109]

I've always hated the idea of an outside observer whose words were law. I hated that when discussing morality as well. When it comes down to it, everything is subjective.

Exactly this. I also hate when people think there's some set of objective morals.

I do too, but the outsider observer theory pissed me off infinitely more than any other one.

"The path that an all knowing, unbiased observer would take is the correct path."

I also think it is funny that Zook says it is objectively rude to spit in someone's face and murder didn't seem to come up first.

[Zook]

I've always hated the idea of an outside observer whose words were law. I hated that when discussing morality as well. When it comes down to it, everything is subjective.

Exactly this. I also hate when people think there's some set of objective morals.

It's objectively rude to spit in someone's face.

Nope. Not objective.

Maybe if you're Al-Qaeda.

[zxlkho]

I've always hated the idea of an outside observer whose words were law. I hated that when discussing morality as well. When it comes down to it, everything is subjective.

Exactly this. I also hate when people think there's some set of objective morals.

It's objectively rude to spit in someone's face.

Nope. Not objective.

Maybe if you're Al-Qaeda.

Well there you go. That's exactly right.

[73109]

I've always hated the idea of an outside observer whose words were law. I hated that when discussing morality as well. When it comes down to it, everything is subjective.

Exactly this. I also hate when people think there's some set of objective morals.

It's objectively rude to spit in someone's face.

Nope. Not objective.

Maybe if you're Al-Qaeda.

Well there you go. That's exactly right.

Objectively.