Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?

[Kotowboy]

If JP penned this with MP in mind, it would be the greatest compliment and act of love a man could show to a friend....so with that in mind, I may reconsider my initial reaction, it would be like JP.

In what way?  I'm not saying you're wrong, but to me the song is really, really sad and ends on a huge downer note.  Maybe you could read it that way if you said it was JP trying to really open up and mend bridges, but I dunno.

The song's not explicitly about Portnoy, so you could say it's not about Portnoy and be truthful.  But I wouldn't be surprised if in some interview JP said "I didn't want to just write a song about me and Mike, because that would be too obtuse a statement to have on the album.  But I did want to write something about what we had gone through that could mean something in a broader sense without people just looking at it as being about us."  But we don't know.

Exactly... how could he be so obtuse?

I dunno but Myung is so acute 

[lonestar]

Never even crossed my mind.  Keep looking.

[JustinSire]

I would say very much not so. The lyrics in that song talk about a certain alienation and withdrawal that I'm sure everyone who has ever had any relationship with anyone is familiar with. I don't think its far-fetched to suggest the MP chapter might have helped influence the song in some way, but I certainly do not think it is a direct message to him.

The song is more along the lines of "Vaccant".

[Vajra]

If JP penned this with MP in mind, it would be the greatest compliment and act of love a man could show to a friend....so with that in mind, I may reconsider my initial reaction, it would be like JP.

In what way?  I'm not saying you're wrong, but to me the song is really, really sad and ends on a huge downer note.  Maybe you could read it that way if you said it was JP trying to really open up and mend bridges, but I dunno.

The song's not explicitly about Portnoy, so you could say it's not about Portnoy and be truthful.  But I wouldn't be surprised if in some interview JP said "I didn't want to just write a song about me and Mike, because that would be too obtuse a statement to have on the album.  But I did want to write something about what we had gone through that could mean something in a broader sense without people just looking at it as being about us."  But we don't know.

Exactly... how could he be so obtuse?

I dunno but Myung is so acute 

How dare you ruin my reference to Shawshank Redemption. May the Shaman have mercy on your soul.

[LCArenas]

EVERYTHING is about Mike Portnoy.

OTBOA is the band contemplating how fans debate about Portnoy Leaving.
BMU, BMD is about Portnoy criticizing the band because it sounds like Images and Words (Yeah, they predicted it)
LnF is DT portraying themselves as soldiers fighting against all the odds including Portnoy.
TiTL is about Portnoy.
BiTS is about DT consulting a Shaman to help them overcome Portnoy's leaving.
Outcry is about DT making a musical revolution against MP's OCD.
Far From Heaven is JLB telling MP that he cares about him leaving.
Breaking all Illusions is about John Myung.
Beneath the Surface is what the OP said...




















































Or maybe not. Maybe nothing's about Portnoy

[Optimus]

I dont think its for mike, BUT "Far From Heaven" is, I think. Listen to the lyrics and remember it was james who wrote it. I think its about Mike wanting him out of the band. You can imagine it is hard when the leader of the band want you to be replaced.

[AngelBack]

I think the Twelve Step Suite and Never Enough were about.....nevermind.

[BanksD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNqJ5zNxRmE

this song is about Portnoy

[Mebert78]

I actually think "Lost Not Forgotten" might be about Portnoy, but I've been waiting to get my CD in the mail and analyz the lyrics to know for sure.  I know Petrucci said this song is about something else entirely, but maybe it's metaphorically about MP.  The thing that tipped me off was that Petrucci used the word "empire" to describe Dream Theater in the drummer documentary, if you recall that.  Well, in LNF he uses the phrase leaving the "empire," which made me think it might have a metaphorical meaning of DT and be referring to MP leaving the band.  He's lost, but not forgotten.

[millahh]

I do believe it's about MP. The other lyrics have definetely nothing to do with his departure. To me this is the only debatable case.

JP said it's not. What is there to "believe" about it otherwise?

I haven't read such a statement of his yet. D'  ya have a link or something?

@millahh  TITL is about people wishing they were someone else or having different lives. At least according to JLB.

I know...that's exactly why it seems like it could be about MP.  It's about people who are unable to be happy in their own lives, and go chasing new things, causing chaos in their wake (Think "OCD" and A7X).

[Vajra]

I actually think "Lost Not Forgotten" might be about Portnoy, but I've been waiting to get my CD in the mail and analyz the lyrics to know for sure.  I know Petrucci said this song is about something else entirely, but maybe it's metaphorically about MP.  The thing that tipped me off was that Petrucci used the word "empire" to describe Dream Theater in the drummer documentary, if you recall that.  Well, in LNF he uses the phrase leaving the "empire," which made me think it might have a metaphorical meaning of DT and be referring to MP leaving the band.  He's lost, but not forgotten.

Lost Not Forgotten is about some historical subject according to JP.

[Mebert78]

I actually think "Lost Not Forgotten" might be about Portnoy, but I've been waiting to get my CD in the mail and analyz the lyrics to know for sure.  I know Petrucci said this song is about something else entirely, but maybe it's metaphorically about MP.  The thing that tipped me off was that Petrucci used the word "empire" to describe Dream Theater in the drummer documentary, if you recall that.  Well, in LNF he uses the phrase leaving the "empire," which made me think it might have a metaphorical meaning of DT and be referring to MP leaving the band.  He's lost, but not forgotten.

Lost Not Forgotten is about some historical subject according to JP.

I know, that's what he said.  But maybe it has a second meaning or metaphorical meaning that JP had in mind for the MP situation.  JP was very wise in crafting his lyrics in such a way where they could be applied to a variety of situations.  He would never come out and say a certain hostile lyric was inspired by MP's departure.  He's too respectful.  LNF's chorus could certainly apply to MP.  I haven't sat down and look at the verses yet though.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

Hell, the next thread is going to be: " A Dramatic Turn of Events Alternate Title is: Portnoy"

[Dcrupi]

Can everyone stop bashing any suggestion that a song is related to Portnoy?  Or being short with anyone who dares to voice the possibility?  Please?  It's getting really old.  Let's try and have a mature discussion about it, please.

JP has explicitly stated that neither the album's title nor the song lyrics are directly about Mike.  That does NOT mean that it still could not have played a role in the shaping of the song...clearly the event was huge in the lives of every band member, and they all have it on their minds.  It is possible that it could have triggered some sort of emotional reaction or memory in JP, leading him to write the lyrics based off another subject.  It does not mean that the event did not influence him, however. 

Some of the lyrics seem like they could apply very well and very beautifully to the situation.  Others do not.  Again, it could have partly inspired some of the lyrics, perhaps even unintentionally or subconsciously.  So everyone, please stop bashing anyone who suggests an association...thank you.

[Mosh]

You guys are all wrong. Bridges in the Sky is the one about Portnoy.

[zipporaid]

Can everyone stop bashing any suggestion that a song is related to Portnoy?  Or being short with anyone who dares to voice the possibility?  Please?  It's getting really old.  Let's try and have a mature discussion about it, please.

JP has explicitly stated that neither the album's title nor the song lyrics are directly about Mike.  That does NOT mean that it still could not have played a role in the shaping of the song...clearly the event was huge in the lives of every band member, and they all have it on their minds.  It is possible that it could have triggered some sort of emotional reaction or memory in JP, leading him to write the lyrics based off another subject.  It does not mean that the event did not influence him, however. 

Some of the lyrics seem like they could apply very well and very beautifully to the situation.  Others do not.  Again, it could have partly inspired some of the lyrics, perhaps even unintentionally or subconsciously.  So everyone, please stop bashing anyone who suggests an association...thank you.

Seriously, this.   I love how everyone says "JP said it wasn't about MP" in some interview,
yeah he did, but do you think he would really just come out and say it was?

I think there are lines in this album that are DIRECTLY related to MP. the fact that I can read
the lyrics of TITL and BTS and draw direct comparisons, they OBVIOUSLY would have though about this while writing.  BTS, someone closing off a relationship and not saying anything before it
falls apart,  TITL  saying the grass isn't always greener... (  FFH,  seems like JLB's Never Enough to portnoy.

"HAve you ever wished that you were someone else (a nu-metal drummer)
Traded places in your mind, it's only a waste of your time"

"Some choose to live gracefully
some get caught in the maze and lose their way home
this is the life we belong to (DT?)
our gift divine (being talented musicians?)"

How could JP write that and NOT think that we would all draw a possible comparison to MP?

[MajorMatt]

This thread lacks bacon....

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Portnoy is the clown on the cover.

[LCArenas]

Now seriously, this thread exists because most of us think that there's AT LEAST one song regarding Portnoy's leaving, much like Raise the Knife.

But Raise the Knife only dedicated one verse to Kevin Moore AFAIK... So maybe they did only one verse of one of the songs regarding him, or just used his leaving as inspiration to one of the songs but not necessarily being about him.

[Knguro]

actually several songs are about MP: The Glass Prisson
                                                            This Dying Soul
                                                            The Root of all Evil
                                                            Repetance
                                                            TSF
You choose.

[Mosh]

Hmm. Tough choice but I'm going to have to go with The Mirror.

[The Silent Cody]

NO, Stop looking for nuggets!

This, can't We just enjoy of this awesome piece of music?

[cramx3]

As much as the guys will state the album title and the songs are not about Portnoy, its VERY hard to believe.  I mean, the lyrics are almost explicitly depicting Portnoy in parts.  No one else finds it wierd that Beneath the Surface is the last song and Space Dye Vest was the last song on Awake and both are extremely emotional songs and well in some sense can relate to a band member leaving? And This is the Life is screaming to me about MP's decision.  Maybe they didn't intentionally write about MP, but it seems like they did.  I think it makes the songs better because it adds REAL emotion to the lyrics and the music.  Beneath the Surface is the first DT song to make me FEEL since Disappear.

[BlobVanDam]

Some people are overanalyzing way too hard on this album. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. It doesn't always have to be smoked presidential style.

Or something like that......

[Priest of Syrinx]

Some people are overanalyzing way too hard on this album. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. It doesn't always have to be smoked presidential style.

Or something like that......

 

[elmatto]

I thought so too, or hypothesized that it could be.
But honestly...I'm probably looking too much into it. Like has already been said.

[Mladen]

I think John wrote the lyrics about his relationship with MP after all the stuff went down and how they both began to forget why they longed to be so close, blah blah blah. I honestly believe that's the case. Beneath the surface is the only song with unexplained lyrics in interviews so far - coincidence?

[BlobVanDam]

I think John wrote the lyrics about his relationship with MP after all the stuff went down and how they both began to forget why they longed to be so close, blah blah blah. I honestly believe that's the case. Beneath the surface is the only song with unexplained lyrics in interviews so far - coincidence?

I have explanations of the lyrics directly from the band, so I can tell you for a fact that it's not about MP at all (the explanation is specific enough to rule it out).
Since this was given to me as part of my work though, you'll have to take my word on that, because I can't really share it.

[hefdaddy42]

I think John wrote the lyrics about his relationship with MP after all the stuff went down and how they both began to forget why they longed to be so close, blah blah blah. I honestly believe that's the case. Beneath the surface is the only song with unexplained lyrics in interviews so far - coincidence?

I have explanations of the lyrics directly from the band, so I can tell you for a fact that it's not about MP at all (the explanation is specific enough to rule it out).
Since this was given to me as part of my work though, you'll have to take my word on that, because I can't really share it.

Good enough for me.

[zipporaid]

NO, Stop looking for nuggets!

This, can't We just enjoy of this awesome piece of music?

Analysis of art is what makes it interesting to me.  If they didn't want to provoke thought,
they would have kicked JLB out of the band.  Can't we discuss it?

[?]

It could be interpreted to be about the situation with Mike, but I doubt JP did it intentionally.

[Mladen]

I think John wrote the lyrics about his relationship with MP after all the stuff went down and how they both began to forget why they longed to be so close, blah blah blah. I honestly believe that's the case. Beneath the surface is the only song with unexplained lyrics in interviews so far - coincidence?

I have explanations of the lyrics directly from the band, so I can tell you for a fact that it's not about MP at all (the explanation is specific enough to rule it out).
Since this was given to me as part of my work though, you'll have to take my word on that, because I can't really share it.

Wow, great, thanks for that. 

[yorost]

Yes, because I figured there was no way it was getting many votes.

[ZirconBlue]

Seriously, this.   I love how everyone says "JP said it wasn't about MP" in some interview, yeah he did, but do you think he would really just come out and say it was?

My fallback position is to not assume he's lying.

[TAC]

No. The band have stated multiple times that neither the album title nor any of the lyrics are about Portnoy.

But on more than one occasion, they've also said that the thing about music us that it can be taken many ways.