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JP's Message to MP?

YES, So obvious.
21 (15.7%)
NO, Stop looking for nuggets!
113 (84.3%)

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Author Topic: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?  (Read 12264 times)

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Offline zipporaid

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Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« on: September 13, 2011, 02:21:42 PM »
Ok, so listening and reading at the same time, I think it's about him - but maybe 20% ambiguous, as lyrics can be.
Thoughts?
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Offline FlyingBIZKIT

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2011, 02:24:00 PM »
NO, Stop looking for nuggets!
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Offline ResultsMayVary

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2011, 02:24:53 PM »
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Offline zipporaid

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2011, 02:26:15 PM »
Not even a little?  Come on!
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Offline Dr. DTVT

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2011, 02:29:50 PM »
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Offline tri.ad

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2011, 02:31:26 PM »
No. The band have stated multiple times that neither the album title nor any of the lyrics are about Portnoy.
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Offline zipporaid

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2011, 02:34:37 PM »
And they always come out and tell us what the lyrics are aboot?

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Offline Lowdz

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2011, 02:35:54 PM »
I think Outcry is the song about Portnoy...
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Offline Vajra

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2011, 02:40:05 PM »
I pondered the same thing. It seemed like a nice way of kind of tapping MP on the shoulder after him hearing an epic album, and being like "Hey listen to these lyrics, does this remind you of yourself?"

"And I came to forget, why I longed to be so close."

^^Mike Portnoy kind of forgetting why he longed to be close with the members of the band, but instead wanted to break away?

"And then, one day I, stopped caring"

^^How he stopped caring about the band, and wanted to move on?

Nuggets? You decide.
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Offline FlyingBIZKIT

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2011, 02:44:07 PM »
Quote from: zipporaid on September 13, 2011, 02:26:15 PM
Not even a little?  Come on!

This song is about a surface...and being beneath it.  :)
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Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2011, 02:49:50 PM »
Quote from: Lowdz on September 13, 2011, 02:35:54 PM
I think Outcry is the song about Portnoy...
Nothing is about Portnoy.
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Offline Vajra

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2011, 02:51:30 PM »
Quote from: LieLowTheWantedMan on September 13, 2011, 02:49:50 PM
Quote from: Lowdz on September 13, 2011, 02:35:54 PM
I think Outcry is the song about Portnoy...
Nothing is about Portnoy.
Wait, there's a song called "Nothing" on the album? Did you get a deluxe edition or something?
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Offline tjanuranus

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2011, 03:16:23 PM »
Listen to the song and think of Jim and Pam pre getting together. That's what the songs about. Two people who are friends and one wants more but the other doesn't then when one goes away the other realizes what they had and wants more also but It just never works out and the hurt/pain of the whole thing gets buried beneath the surface. Pretty obvious to me.
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Offline energythief

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2011, 03:20:25 PM »
Please, no more of this.  :P
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Offline darkshade

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2011, 03:21:51 PM »
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Offline AngelBack

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2011, 03:31:29 PM »
If JP penned this with MP in mind, it would be the greatest compliment and act of love a man could show to a friend....so with that in mind, I may reconsider my initial reaction, it would be like JP.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2011, 03:35:44 PM »
Quote from: AngelBack on September 13, 2011, 03:31:29 PM
If JP penned this with MP in mind, it would be the greatest compliment and act of love a man could show to a friend....so with that in mind, I may reconsider my initial reaction, it would be like JP.

In what way?  I'm not saying you're wrong, but to me the song is really, really sad and ends on a huge downer note.  Maybe you could read it that way if you said it was JP trying to really open up and mend bridges, but I dunno.

The song's not explicitly about Portnoy, so you could say it's not about Portnoy and be truthful.  But I wouldn't be surprised if in some interview JP said "I didn't want to just write a song about me and Mike, because that would be too obtuse a statement to have on the album.  But I did want to write something about what we had gone through that could mean something in a broader sense without people just looking at it as being about us."  But we don't know.
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Offline AngelBack

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2011, 03:38:45 PM »
Not saying it was written to MP, but if it was JP's desire to paint a scenario of how things could end if they never get things out in the open, then that would be huge.
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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2011, 03:40:47 PM »
No.
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Offline millahh

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2011, 03:43:13 PM »
If anything on the disc is obliquely about/to MP,it's TITL...
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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2011, 03:50:18 PM »
Agreed millahh, that was the only song where I thought the lyrics could possibly be construed to be about MP, but if JP says that they're not then I have no reason to not believe him.
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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2011, 03:51:00 PM »
The 3rd thread I see coming back is this thread. Fucking hallelujah.
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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2011, 04:15:36 PM »
I gotta admit, I think Breaking All Illusions might have something to do with MP...or rather why JM is the way he is.  I know I'm probably thinking too much into it but it seems like it's JM's way of explaining why he wasn't up for a power struggle and chose to keep to himself more than the others and reflect on things in his own way. 
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Offline eosforum

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2011, 04:17:02 PM »
I do believe it's about MP. The other lyrics have definetely nothing to do with his departure. To me this is the only debatable case.
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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2011, 04:26:26 PM »
Quote from: eosforum on September 13, 2011, 04:17:02 PM
I do believe it's about MP. The other lyrics have definetely nothing to do with his departure. To me this is the only debatable case.

JP said it's not. What is there to "believe" about it otherwise?
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Offline RuRoRul

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2011, 04:41:06 PM »
I never considered the possibility of it being about Portnoy. Based on a personal experience perhaps, but it doesn't strike me as that between JP and Portnoy at all. From all appearances JP and MP were good friends for a long, long time, then when MP went the other way on DT related stuff it came between them and caused some contention between them (although neither has said anything explicitly negative about the other). That just doesn't seem similar to the situation in Beneath The Surface at all.

This Is The Life being a little bit about Portnoy is possible but I don't think JP would have meant it that way at all. The only other one is Build Me Up, Break Me Down. The stuff in the lyrics is a little bit more extreme than Portnoy since he's hardly a mega-celebrity, but I couldn't help but think that writing about that topic might have been inspired by the way JP has seen his old friend make mistakes in the limelight and then be crucified by a lot of the fans (and general DT haters as well) for it.
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Offline Obfuscation

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2011, 04:44:28 PM »
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Offline zipporaid

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2011, 04:45:54 PM »
Agreed TITL and BAI could be referencing.  TITL More than BAI, but I get the vibe from Myung there too.
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Offline Priest of Syrinx

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2011, 04:57:25 PM »
Currently 43-4 in favor of breaking all delusions.
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Offline johncal

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2011, 04:58:44 PM »
WOW. I think we need a "conspiracy theory" catagory to put some of these threads in.
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Offline zipporaid

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2011, 04:59:29 PM »
wish it were 46&2.  :coolio
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Offline tweeg

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2011, 05:06:16 PM »
At first listen I thought it could have been about JP and KM's relationship prior to him leaving DT. There's myriad interviews out there talking about how distant Kevin got towards the end there, and the lyrics to the song certainly suggest someone growing distant to JP. And he certainly had more of a "fragile frame" back then :P And being the mellow, contemplative closer to an album it could be his answer to SDV.

All this is pretty conspiracy theory, but it's food for forum-thought, anyway.
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Offline eosforum

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2011, 05:38:05 PM »
Quote from: Jamesman42 on September 13, 2011, 04:26:26 PM
Quote from: eosforum on September 13, 2011, 04:17:02 PM
I do believe it's about MP. The other lyrics have definetely nothing to do with his departure. To me this is the only debatable case.

JP said it's not. What is there to "believe" about it otherwise?

I haven't read such a statement of his yet. D'  ya have a link or something?

@millahh  TITL is about people wishing they were someone else or having different lives. At least according to JLB.
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Offline Vajra

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2011, 05:44:33 PM »
Quote from: ReaPsTA on September 13, 2011, 03:35:44 PM
Quote from: AngelBack on September 13, 2011, 03:31:29 PM
If JP penned this with MP in mind, it would be the greatest compliment and act of love a man could show to a friend....so with that in mind, I may reconsider my initial reaction, it would be like JP.

In what way?  I'm not saying you're wrong, but to me the song is really, really sad and ends on a huge downer note.  Maybe you could read it that way if you said it was JP trying to really open up and mend bridges, but I dunno.

The song's not explicitly about Portnoy, so you could say it's not about Portnoy and be truthful.  But I wouldn't be surprised if in some interview JP said "I didn't want to just write a song about me and Mike, because that would be too obtuse a statement to have on the album.  But I did want to write something about what we had gone through that could mean something in a broader sense without people just looking at it as being about us."  But we don't know.
Exactly... how could he be so obtuse?
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Offline senecadawg2

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Re: Beneath the Surface - Message to Portnoy?
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2011, 05:46:23 PM »
I definitely did think about this a few times, and decided that if any of the songs were about Portnoy this would be the one. Know one knows except for the guys who wrote it (mainly Petrucci). He claims it has nothing to do with Portnoy. Doesn't necessarily mean that's true, but I'd like to think it is true.
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