The Official Iced Earth Thread v. "Tastes Like Treason!"

[Adami]

I think one of my issues with Crucible is the lyrics. Musically it's not amazing, but it's not half bad for a slower album. But lyrically the entire album up till Come What May can be summed up with "I will devour, I will divide". Seriously, there's nothing else said in the album till the last song.

[MykeHavoc]

I didn't mind the repetitious lyrics in the Something Wicked storyline, as any good book or graphic novel benefits from implanting certain key phrases in your mind over time. But overall, Framing was certainly stronger. I was really impressed with it, to be honest. Jon seems to be able to tell that part of the story like he Frank Herbert or something
It's Crucible that comes off a poor retelling of the sequels to The Omen. Large gaps on story in Set's uprising also increases a feeling of disconnect, where as in part one, I was fairly hooked.

[Adami]

I didn't mind the repetitious lyrics in the Something Wicked storyline, as any good book or graphic novel benefits from implanting certain key phrases in your mind over time. But overall, Framing was certainly stronger. I was really impressed with it, to be honest. Jon seems to be able to tell that part of the story like he Frank Herbert or something
It's Crucible that comes off a poor retelling of the sequels to The Omen. Large gaps on story in Set's uprising also increases a feeling of disconnect, where as in part one, I was fairly hooked.

You don't think there's a difference between implanting certain key phrases and an entire album simply being 1 very basic concept?

[MykeHavoc]

Well...no

Not the way you worded it at least. If the implication is that Jon was lazy with the lyrics, then I'd disagree. I certainly felt there was genuine design involved.

[Adami]

Well...no

Not the way you worded it at least. If the implication is that Jon was lazy with the lyrics, then I'd disagree. I certainly felt there was genuine design involved.

Oh not lazy, just poorly planned. Framing told a really cool story of alien invasion and its consequences. When it came down to the Sets return, I guess Jon realized that there probably wasn't as much to that part of the story as he may have thought. It's hard to stretch out 1 phrase over a whole album.

[MykeHavoc]

Perhaps. Also, don't forget, Barlow wrote a portion of the lyrics. 3 or 4 songs if I'm not mistaken.

[Adami]

Did you forget that everything is jons fault no matter what?

[MykeHavoc]

Oh shit, you're right. I almost forgot


Picked up the guitar and started playing along to some songs. Here are the keys:

Dystopia - E (half-step down)
Anthem - E (half-step down)
Boiling Point - E (half-step down)
Anguish of Youth - E (half-step down)
V - E (half-step down)
Dark City - A (standard)
Equilibrium - E (standard)
Days of Rage - E (half-step down)
End of Innocence - B (standard tuned baritone guitar)
Tragedy and Triumph - D (half-step down)

Might work on some tabs soon. Lemme know if you guys want the lyrics. I can figure them out for the most part easily.
Also updated the wiki page with song lengths.

[Jaq]

Lyrics would be cool. I am really starting to look forward to this album, despite my concerns about Stu Block singing like Barlow. Just hope the riffing is solid, that's what usually makes or breaks an Iced Earth album for me.

[Zook]

Damn, looks like the album's pretty short.

[Jaq]

Yeah, just over 43 minutes not counting the limited edition tracks. But after the last two albums, I'm more in the more for a more concise, direct experience. Less sometimes IS more after all.

[MykeHavoc]

Damn, looks like the album's pretty short.

Yeah, it flies by. Probably why I've listened to it so much.

[Zook]

Are the 2 minute songs like Stand Alone or are they some type of interlude? Also, The Dark Saga was around 40 minutes too so I guess it isn't so bad.

[glaurung]

Does the new album sound anything at all like Sons of Liberty?

[MykeHavoc]

Are the 2 minute songs like Stand Alone or are they some type of interlude? Also, The Dark Saga was around 40 minutes too so I guess it isn't so bad.

No interludes. All songs with lyrics. Stand Alone is a good example. The concise running time and meat and potatoes song-writing is what reminds me of Dark Saga.

Does the new album sound anything at all like Sons of Liberty?

No. Far superior production. He slips in a few of his stances but in a very general way. It is about totalitarianism and monomaniacal societies, which could be perceived as political, but its under the guise of film and literary references, so it isn't too on the nose or in your face.   

[wolfking]

40 - 45 minutes is a perfect length for an album IMO.  I like the track lengths too.

[Jaq]

Inspired by the talk of the band in this thread, I decided to listen to as much Iced Earth as I owned, with a few exceptions, in order to see if I've unfairly judged the output of the band for the last ten or so years. The exceptions were: the Into The Realm demo, Days of Purgatory, Alive In Athens (because, come on, that's NEVER going to be bad) and Tribute to the Gods. The first three albums were the Dark Genesis remixes. Here we go:

Iced Earth-the single best example of one element (the vocals) killing an otherwise excellent album. Some of Schaffer's best riffs ever are just overwhelmed by awful vocals.

Night of the Stormrider-still, in my opinion, Iced Earth's most consistent release. Much better vocals and amazing songs. Tied as my favorite IE album with...

Burnt Offerings-this masterpiece. It's easy to think of this album as "Dante's Inferno and several other songs" but that's not the case at all. I love the mood of almost pure evil this album exudes.

Dark Saga-one of the albums that I had grown to, if not dislike, then give a pass when I was in the mood for Iced Earth. On replay, it's a lot better than I recalled, blending the earlier, thrashy IE with the more conventional metal sounds the band would explore in the future. And "A Question of Heaven" remains a top 10 Iced Earth track for me.

Something Wicked This Way Comes-I like to think of this as the perfect studio album to introduce someone to Iced Earth to. (Alive In Athens is the best introduction to the band there is, but if you have to go with a single disc, Something Wicked is it.) It's got thrashier numbers, great straight up metal, and the Something Wicked trilogy. Btw, Matt Barlow on the Coming Curse-a top five metal vocalist performance EVER.

Horror Show-I have a soft spot for this one because it was my first Iced Earth album and Steve DiGiorgio is one of my favorite bassists. Horror Show manages to balance the more straight ahead early IE with the more symphonic direction Schaffer took the band in, though Ghost of Freedom still brings me out of the concept with a dull thud.

The Glorious Burden-I really, really hoped I was being unfair to this album in hindsight, seeing as it marked the point where the band's line up changes started to hit the point of comedic value. Sadly, I wasn't. Despite a superheroic vocal performance by Tim Owens, this one is still merely OK. I will admit that Gettysburg improved on re-listen, but I still blame the mix for the orchestra seeming so thin.

Overture of the Wicked EP-Ugh. I remember when I got this, I thought to myself "man, Ripper's gonna slay on The Coming Curse." And he didn't. Wholly unnecessary remake of a classic.

Framing Armageddon-holy shit did I lowball this album. While I still don't think there was two albums worth of material in the Set story, the first album at least is pretty damn killer. The Clouding is a top ten Iced Earth track, easily.

Crucible of Man-unfortunately, I can't say I lowballed this album in my initial impression. The fact that The Coming Curse tells the story of most of this album better than this one speaks volumes. Come What May, however, almost saves the album singlehandedly, and its vaulted into my Iced Earth top ten.

Dante's Inferno Remake-you know what? This is starting to grow on me. The guitar solo is still dreadful, feeling like it was mailed in from another universe, and I miss the chants, but Stu Block nailed it. It's moved up to a B- for me.

tl;dr: I still really like Iced Earth it seems. I just hope Dystopia isn't another case of Lucy and the football for me. 

[Adami]

Horror Show, not story.



Also, one of the things I really hated about the Dante redo, was the drums. They were awful.

[Jaq]

I had story on the brain thinking about the Something Wicked albums apparently. 

[Gadough]

I just bought Something Wicked This Way Comes on iTunes....they have the genre as "Pop".

 

[MykeHavoc]

Good news! You guys can (sort of) hear the new album's title track in this webisode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtpHqOV7z68&feature=player_embedded

[Zook]

Saw that a little while ago. Sounds pretty good.

Sleep time.

[Jaq]

What you could hear sounds great. And hey, a tour of Morrisound Studios to boot. Man, if I tried to count how many albums I own that were recorded there the number would be absurdly high. 

[BanksD]

I've been listening to this band a lot lately, and i finally got around to listening to Night Of The Stormrider.


Great album  (dunno if i like it as much as Something Wicked and Horror Show though)

[CrimsonE]

I picked up Alive in Athens on a lark in 2000 or so, not knowing anything about the band, and it changed my life, much like Live After Death changed it in the 1980's.  LAD was one of the reasons I got into heavy metal in the first place, and AiA is one of the reasons I had returned to metal after almost a decade of mediocrity, even from my favorite metal bands.  I then picked up the various IE CD's, either separately, or as part of their boxed set, and I really grew to appreciate this band.  So, here are a few quick thoughts about some of their albums.  I'll skip the first two albums because I've never really been able to get into either of the early vocalists (although Curse the Sky is a truly underrated gem in the IE catalog, no matter who is singing it). 

Burnt Offerings:  A very good album, although at times it seems to be complex for complexity's sake.  Yet it produced Dante's Inferno and Last December, two true classics.

Dark Saga:  Marked the shift in the band's sound away from the complex and towards more straightforward songwriting.  Perhaps the most consistent album from start to finish, although with the exception of A Question of Heaven, nothing truly glorious here.

Days of Purgatory:  A very good collection of remixes and updates to their older material, with Matt on vocals, that showed that he really was the band's heart in their prime. 

Something Wicked:  As was mentioned, a pretty good starting point with a mix of all their styles over the years. 

Horror Show:  A true mixed bag and the beginning of the downward trend for this band.  While there is some truly amazing work (Damien, Dracula), a lot of it just leaves me cold.

Glorious Burden:  A new vocalist, but many of the same problems remain.  The Gettysburg trilogy was very good, but it was not really the classic that I had hoped it would be, with the exception of High Water Mark.  Declaration Day was a fine opener.  The rest is pretty weak, especially When the Eagle Cries. 

Framing Armageddon:  I listened to this recently and my opinion now is pretty much the same as it was then:  is this all there is?  Jon had been bragging for almost a decade about how awesome the Something Wicked storyline was going to be, and how great the albums would be, and he puts out pretty much the same type of material as he has the recent albums: some good stuff here and there (Ten Thousand Strong, and A Charge to Keep), but otherwise pretty forgettable. 

Crucible of Man:  I thought the return of Matt would give the band a shot in the arm--it didn't, and this winds up being even weaker than Framing Armageddon.  It wasn't as bad as I remembered it and there are some flashes of their former glory (Harbringer of Fate), but again, the overall material left me flat.

Now, yet another singer is on board, and given that he can devote his full attention to the band (unlike Matt), perhaps they can move forward.  If nothing else, this may be Jon's last chance to prove that IE can still put out quality music.  If this one bombs, he might as well call it a day and start a new project, one that won't have the same high expectations as IE.  Or see if Hani wants to chuck aside Blind Guardian and make the Demons and Wizard's project a full time band.  That project has produced far superior material than anything IE has done since the original Something Wicked album in 99. 

[Zook]

John Greely isn't that bad. Give Night Of The Stormrider another shot. It's amazing.

So I'm listening to Anthem right now. Stu Barlow sounds pretty good. Not a bad song. The fade out is too quick though. Days Of Rage.. Very Disciples Of The Lie, and the chorus is kinda... Shit. But it's not too bad I guess. 

GOTTA DO AS I SAY
NOT AS I DO
DAYS OF RAGE
DAYS OF RAGE
DAYS OF RAGE



Actually, Days Of Rage is pretty forgettable.

I'd like it more if Stu wasn't just emulating Matt's voice. Hope the rest of the album is better.

[Jaq]

Just got to hear those two songs too, my thoughts:

Anthem: Nice chorus. Guitar solo actually doesn't suck-I mean, yes, it's not world beating or anything, but it isn't as out of left field as that one from Dante's Inferno. Solid mid tempo number. I guess if Stu's going to have to impersonate Barlow, at least he does it well.

Days of Rage: I'm thinking it's utter filler. On the one hand, it's nice to hear Iced Earth do a speedy, stripped back, straight up metal song after two albums of heavily orchestrated music. On the other hand, it's really not that memorable. Anthem's chorus is still with me, but Days of Rage has just fluttered right out of my head.

Overall, though, I like the more stripped back, straight ahead approach. Just hope more of the album is the quality of Anthem

[Jaq]

Bump.

I got the Festivals of the Wicked DVD, which is decent enough despite the fact that so many of the songs are repeated from set to set, and the two Barlow sets differ by one additional song. Haven't watched the documentary yet, but since someone earlier in this thread said it was pretty much 60 minutes of Jon Schaffer Is Awesome, I probably won't. A thing that amused me about the editing on the DVD, especially on the Wacken set, was how every guitar solo went. "Hey it's a guitar solo...camera's on Jon. Camera angle change...Jon again. Another change...it's Brent. Back to Jon. Over to Troy just as he butchers the last three seconds of the solo." 

Decent enough DVD but not exactly what I'd call essential. Guess it's worth it since I haven't seen Iced Earth live yet and will (in theory at least) never see them with Tim or Matt singing.

And...oh boy, check out this interview:

https://www.radiometal.com/en/article/iced-earth-jon-schaffer-prophet-of-a-dystopia,44124

I'll terrify everyone: Schaffer is working on more Sons of Liberty songs. 

[Adami]

Even though I prefer Barlow, the Ripper set on the DVD was way better because the band seemed like they actually had energy, with Barlow everyone just seemed to be going through the motions..........slowly.


And yea Schaffer is a joke these days. America is a police state with martial law, no freedom or liberty and such? Hey Jon, tour the middle east for a few weeks, then get back to me on how opressed American's are.

[Jaq]

Agreed. You could really tell Barlow's heart wasn't in it anymore from his performance, while Wacken at least the band had life to them. And Jon's gone so far around the bend politically that even Michelle Bachman would tell him to ease up.  I can live with it if Dystopia is decent though.

[MetalMike06]

I don't really care about Jon's political stuff; I'm just glad he's decent enough to keep it separate from IE.

[GuineaPig]

I don't really care about Jon's political stuff; I'm just glad he's decent enough to keep it separate from IE.

It's the only thing that's keeping me interested at all in Iced Earth.

[Adami]

I don't really care about Jon's political stuff; I'm just glad he's decent enough to keep it separate from IE.

Haven't read the lyrics to Dystopia yet, but it seems the album won't exactly be void of his politics.

[Zook]

Speaking of Barlow:

WHAT'S UP GUYS? JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I WAS THINKING OF YOU. I HAVE BEEN GATHERING MY POWERS IN THE LAST MONTHS IN PREPARATION FOR ANOTHER METAL ASSAULT. THINGS ARE COMING ALONG NICELY...I WILL KEEP YOU UPDATED. ON A SOMBER NOTE, TOMORROW IS THE FUNERAL FOR SGT. JOSEPH SZCZERBA, NCCP. PLEASE THINK OF HIS FAMILY, AND REMEMBER THIS HERO, WHO MADE THE ULTIMATE SACRIFICE FOR HIS COMMUNITY.

[Gadough]

40 - 45 minutes is a perfect length for an album IMO.

Agreed.